Mustang Fever

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There's probably already a thread on this, but RCU's new search engine works about as good as poop, and I couldn't find one. What is it with software people? 99% of their so called improvements are not near as good as what they started with. I can't find anything anymore, it just keeps coming back "no matches found". [:'(]

This is a great little airplane! It takes off and lands in very short distances, can be flown around at very slow speeds, and will do just about anything except stall or spin. (It just drops the nose and starts flying again when I try.)

I assembled it according to all recommendations: the Rimfire 28-30-950 motor, the Futaba S3114 micro servos, a 25 amp Astro ESC I had on hand, and a 1200 mAh Flight Power LiPo that I already had. It balanced perfectly with no messing about, and flew great with only a tiny bit of up elevator and left aileron trim. The recommended prop is perfect. (10x3.5SF) It does like quite a bit of expo on the elevator (35%), if you use the high rate settings like I did, or it gets a bit twitchy in pitch. (I don't use dual rates, as I'd always forget about the dang switch.)

Landings are fun: come over the fence at something less than 1/3 throttle and start backing off the power and pulling the nose up until it's maybe 10 degrees positive, and it will start to slowly sink. When it gets close to the ground, chop the throttle and flare just a bit more. She rolls out real pretty with no tendency to nose over on the crushed rock they use for baseball infields. But.....

I think the landing gear needs the mod I made. There's too much flexibility in the factory setup, which is just a bolt through each strut for an axle, and it results in nose overs from too much drag on the wheels as they won't stay straight. They supplied a piece of plastic tubing to go between bolts which lasted about two flights before it broke in half. I put a piece of 4-40 threaded rod through the strut holes with nuts on the inside and outside of the struts, "jammed" together. Then I used two small washers on each side of each wheel with a self locking 4-40 nut to hold them on.

You'll love the various little hatches they provided so you can work on it - two of the three are held on with rare earth magnets!

Enjoy

mad web tv scientist

Mustang, great post! I love this airplane so much that I bought another one that I am going to reinforce with carbon fiber, etc., in order to enjoy a little more structural security in the event of yet another unplanned destructive impact with terra firma.

Great landing gear solution. Since I have been crashing my Fokker Dr-1 Triplane lately, I ordered a spare "GPMA2993 Landing Gear" replacement parts" in order to not only enjoy the spare parts for use with the DR-1, but also to use that solid steel axel that works so well on the Fokker on my new Spad XIII. I also drill out the wheels and use brass on brass bushings that also seems to help with landings. The absolute neatest thing that makes landings far easier with WWI flying machines is thoroughly dealt with on page 5 of the web site: CALL TO GLORY! http://community-2.webtv.net/RICHARD...ORY/page5.html

A few little tips for new would-be Spad Aces - in windy weather keep the nose down more on take off from grass than is normal in mild weather. If you use an intoxicatingly powerful 450 instead of the recommended 400, watch out about throttling up too fast at low speed and low altitude. The big 11X3.8 prop can work like a very effective speed break which can be very nice to help set the ship down right where you want it.

A sneaky problem in windy weather is that coming around down wind and throttling back too much can allow stalling speed to occur much more quickly than you may be used to with cleaner planes. So, in windy weather keep speed higher than you think may be necessary when flying down wind until sufficient experience is gained. This plane can really make a mess on an otherwise very nice soccer field in windy weather if you are not careful.

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Kostas1

Mustang Fever ,
what a nice plane you have!

I am not that of an electric "type" person,
but recently i purchased a used but like new OS 10FSR
and i am debating of buying the spad ,to try a glow conversion.

Could you please post some more pics of your Spad,especially some of the inside of the fuse+firewall???

Thank you so much,

Kostas

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

Kostas:

The .10 would be way, way too much for the Spad. Mine only weighs 24 oz RTF, including the battery. I don't have specs on the 10FSR, but even a 10LA weighs twice as much as the recommended electric motor, and that's without a mount and all the reinforcing you'd have to do to the firewall. You can look at pictures here, on the instruction manual. (Mine's all put together so you can't see much of anything.)

http://manuals.hobbico.com/gpm/gpma1143-manual.pdf

This thing is a park flyer, and is intended to fly around at 20 mph or less. Any faster and it would be uncontrollable, and the 10 is designed to drag something around at over 50mph. You wouldn't be able to slow the 10 down enough to even land it, as at idle speed (2500) with an 8x3 prop it's still pulling at over 7 mph, which is close to cruising speed for this airplane, and almost 1/10th pound of static thrust.

You should really try the electric setup. It's so nice to go down to a park or ballfield on a calm morning, plug it in, and go flying, then unplug it, throw it in the trunk and go to work. Use all the parts that Tower lists except GPMM3122, the motor to speed control connectors. They don't match the motor connectors. I ended up soldering my speed control wires directly to the motor pins. NBD.

If you want a fun airplane for your 10, get one of the Sig Wonder kits.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXFG10&P=7

It's very simple and builds fast. It's a hand launched go fast bird, and is a riot. I have one with a 15 CVA, and it's way overpowered. The 10 would be perfect for it.

mad web tv scientist

Kostas, just a few additional thoughts to add to Bob's that might be useful. Owning and running Max .10s and E-flite 450s I highly recommend the motor over the engine for use on the little Spad. That motor will literally pull the Spad straight up with an 11X3.8 APC vibration free prop.

I hate to think of the vibration effects on even a highly structurally modified Spad that the .10 could impart, not to mention the splattering oil all around and inside the plane that can not only do structural damage but can also be impossible to clean out. My wife really HATES it when I get oil on things in the house or in the car. I love electric, and I have yet to be kicked off a good flying field! Not so with noisy, messy engines.

If you allow yourself to use the modern high performance motors and batteries I guarantee you that you will become as addicted to them as the rest of us.

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Kostas1

Guys thank you for your replies!

Unfortunately,
i don't have the appropriate money for going into electrics,at this time.

As for the OS 10FSR,being too big for the airframe of the Spad,
i have a GreatPlanes SuperSportster 40 ARF wih an OS 65LA and APC 11x6.
I run this setup probably 4 years now,
with absolutely no probs. ,it's d@mn fast like a bullet, and lands wonderfully!

I just chop the throttle just before the final turn,while approaching.

But,
the SuperSportster's airframe is different than the Spad's.

IS the Spad's airframe built good?
Is it any stiff?

I know it's a parkflier,but.....

Also do you have any pics of the inside of the fuse?
I know you have e-setups,but i wanted to see some REAL pics.

Sorry for the trouble.


Kostas

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

Kostas:

No trouble. This is what the forums are for - helping each other.

Let me put it this way: mine weighs 24 ounces. The weight of all the recommended components that go into it is about 10 ounces. That means the entire airframe weighs only 14 oz. This is for a 34" wingspan airplane with a wing area of almost 400 square inches. It is really light for it's size, and I'm sure that without a lot of beefing up a glow engine would shake it apart. It's so light that if you held it by the fuselage and applied a starter to the engine, you'd crush it trying to hold onto it.

Using bigger engines on airplanes than recommended is fun, I do it all the time (see below), but this is a different animal that your average glow bird.

GP Fokker DR-1 .46 (Magnum .91 FS)
TF 1/7 P-51 .90 (OS 1.20 AX)
H9 Sopwith Camel .60 (Magnum 91 TS)
Lanier Mariner 40 (OS 55 AX)
GP Big Stik 60 (OS 91 FX)

TowerZach

I have an underpowered Spotster... wah  It got a little heavy after those, ahem, crashes and repairs (one wasn't me though)...

mad web tv scientist

Kostas, your post and the realization that you are not a "discourageable newbie" along with the fact that I am in the planning phase of reinforcing my newest GP Spad has me thinking about how you might just enjoy succeeding with the impossible. You no doubt have heard of the general who said, "the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a little longer."

Okay, I must first confess that I suffer from an "almost incurable" (?) form of esoteric subjectivism with my electric PF sport scale fighter planes. I tend to become gravely emotionally troubled by even the thought of desecrating them with any kind of ugly, messy, noisy, vibrating, troublesome fuel and oil spraying, fire breathing, self destructing, evil causing engines. So, I apologize for spouting off like I did and hope you will forgive me.

I am using a lot more carbon fiber tow in more places on my new Spad than I used on the destroyed one. Now that I have a little more experience I hope to build up enough confidence to once again enjoy flying the Spad. I am removing the covering on the under sides of the wings in the center sections for CF reinforcement. The CF reinforcement on the top side of the bottom wing will simply blend in with the camo finish. More CF will be used on the fuselage especially around the weak frontal area. With your engine powered biplane experience it now seems to me that your ideas might be more plausible than we first thought. A "large diameter" low pitch prop just might do the trick for you, along with all the right structural and fuel proofing needed for sustained operations.

Please let us know what you decide.

Zach, believe me, I feel your pain!

One more little thing - I actually love my model engines and am looking forward to having fun with them again at some point in the future, if I can ever find the time. As you can plainly see, my problem is obvious!

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Kostas1

Hihi,
i do understand your problem,too!

About reinforcements,
i thought it's needed only in the firewall,
but fuelproofing will be done with thinned 30 min epoxy,
thinned with alcohol ofcourse and applied by brush.

About the torque of the starter ,where you apply it to start a glow engine,
that can rip appart the airframe,
i believe that on this OS 10,because it's really tiny,
i can make it come in life with a chicken stick.....hihi

Kostas

mad web tv scientist

Kostas, I use spring starters on all of my Max .10 engines that works extreamily well. With "large" R/C props (all glow engine props seem ridiculously small to me now) a chicken stick or tough finger should work just great.

One other thing - in your case beefing up the stab would be a very good idea plus give you a little tail weight to help counteract that massive weight you are going to have in the nose.

This is my last communication from this battle station until after my secret mission is accomplished.

Over and out.


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Modeling's rendezvous with destiny will surely be unstoppable when something greater than the narcissistic pleasure of an esoteric chosen few is adopted in modeling.

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

Kostas:

You'll have to beef the nose a lot, the best method being another layer of 1/8 ply right across the front (epoxied) and then as much 1/4 inch triangle stock as you can cram into the corners on the back side. For the tail section, I would make some music wire "flying wires" to brace the top of the fin and the bottom of the fuse to the stab.

The elevator and rudder servo tray is way up front, behind the firewall, and the openings are for sub micros anyway, so I'd cut that out and put my fuel tank (2 oz) there. Then you could locate some metal gear micros servos for rudder/elevator/throttle in the wing saddle area.

You could probably balance it with the receiver battery by sticking that back into the tail and gluing it in place.

The aileron servos will need to be metal gear micros, and you'll have to open up the pockets in the upper wing to make those fit. All of the control horns and push rods will have to be replaced, they are park flyer grade and way too flimsy for a glow bird.

Don't forget to use a piece of 4-40 threaded rod for your axle on the landing gear, as that plastic "connector" they supply will break easily.

The biggest trick is to find a prop that will allow the plane to fly in the vicinity of 25-30 mph maximum. APC has a number of props intended for small engines that might work:

LP06020 6x2 FF @15000 rpm, 28mph and 0.87# thrust
LP07030 7x3 FF @10000 rpm, 28 mph and 0.72#
LP08040 8x4 sport @8000 rpm, 30 mph and 0.79#
LP09030N 9x3 "narrow" @ 10000 rpm, 28 mph and 1.97#
LP10030 10x3 sport @10000rpm, 28 mph and 3#

I'm not sure that the 10 would turn the 10x3 at 10,000rpm, as the horsepower is 0.214 and that's close (0.27) to what the engine generates at 17000. I guess if I was the nutcase doing this I'd go for the 9x3. Just make sure to set your radio up so that the engine cannot go faster than 10000 rpm and go for it!!!!!!!!

Note my signature line. It applies. Best of luck.

Kostas1

Guys,
THANKyou ALLfor your help!

It really helped me a lot....


So,
now i have to wait,
because on my LHSthe stock went out,
i believe it will take 1-2 weeks until they restock some kits again...

But i will start making a list with the needed parts,
containing the stuff needed by your recomendations for the reinforcements.

Also ,
an APC 9x3 will do the trick , I WISH

Thank you again,

Kostas

PS. mad web tv scientist we all wait for pics....xixi

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

Finally, a calm morning in Cadillac, so I went out and flew the Spad for about 10 minutes. Used a little over half the 1200 pack, flying around and doing stall turns, loops, rolls, and split esses. I just love this little thing. It's such a blast and looks and sounds so cool on a low, slow pass.

I think I've finally nailed the landing technique. The trick is to slow way down on final approach, so that the nose is up a little and altitude is controlled with the power. Once it's over the end of the "runway" (crushed rock ball diamond infield), I start backing off on the throttle until it starts to sink real slowly, and hold that power setting until touchdown. I don't turn off the motor until after it touches. Very nice, scale looking landings with a nice roll out at the end.

mad web tv scientist

Kostas, behind enemy lines now and forced to use foreign communication systems. Don't know how much longer I can hold out and report before being forced to abandon current position. Will provide as much timely information as possible for as long as possible until mission accomplished. Should be back to main base in no more than two weeks. Until then communication will be uncertain.

To see pictures please click on "CALL TO GLORY" web site in my above post.

Mustang Fever, BEAUTIFUL POSTS! You filled in ALL the gaps in my posts! You are truely an "Ace of Aces" as a modeler. I hope you will be around when the fighting really gets wild! I can't even imagine having a better wingman promoting modeling than a flyer like yourself!

Over and out

brett65

My Feedback: (18)

I got mine in from tower the other day and mine was the monoplane version.


Actually the bottom wing was missing so now I have to wait for it to go back and another to come in. I got all the recommended parts except i'm using zippy lipos and HXT900 servos.


Kostas, here is RCKen's review that has a lot of good pics of the interior. http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...commentsection

Kostas1

Nice brett!
Thank you very much!

mad web tv scientist

Kostas, just one final idea you might find useful - I have found that Fireline fishing line to be far better for reinforcement than any kind of wire. I have been thinking about using Fireline for bracing the flying surfaces very much like what is done on the full scale version in order to build in a little more crash damage resistance.

Since it is embarrassing to have one or more unflyable damaged airplanes sitting around I plan to get my new Spad built and my Dr-1 repaired before doing any more flying. My problem is that I must discipline myself to stay away from a keyboard in order to get anything built/repaired; otherwise, I tend to procrastinate and never get around to the work that must be done.

So, until I can get it all together, so long for now.

Dai Phan

My Feedback: (2)

Hi,

Any bad habbits on the Spad? I have been flying nothing but foamies but so far I have yet to make any hard landings so I think I can tackle the non-foamies ones. I can handle the PZ T-28 with ease. DP

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

It's a pretty honest airplane, having nothing I would call a bad habit, except maybe that it can't be flown in any kind of wind. It likes a little rudder in the turns, and you don't want to glide in with the power off to landings. As you come over the fence on approach, set the throttle a bit over "off" and get the nose up above horizontal. It will establish a gentle sink rate that you can control by varying the power all the way to touch down. Turn power off just after touch down, and keep the tail down with the elevator, and you'll get nice roll outs. Full power is not needed to take off, and using it makes it get goofy, so take it easy.

The plastic tube that connects the axles together on the main gear is very weak. I replaced mine, and the axles, with a piece of 4-40 threaded rod, having nuts on both sides of the struts to keep it in place. Other than that, I have no criticisms of this airplane. It's a lot of fun and looks great in flight.

Enjoy.

mad web tv scientist

[8D] Kostas, great to see you hanging in there. Modeling needs innovative flyers like yourself. I should have gotten back to you sooner but I have only recently completed my new SPAD, so maybe I can be forgiven.

I will try to post any particular shots you would still like to see. Please check out my newly updated "AMERICA'S ACE" web page that features all of the latest info on my new upgraded SPAD. http://community-2.webtv.net/RICHARD...ORY/page5.html

Dai Phan, the only nasty characteristic of my newest SPAD is the one that precipitated the destruction of my original one. With the larger 450 size than the recommended 400 size motor, throttling up too quickly at near stall speed can torque roll the plane. If you happen to be too close to the ground when this happens and find yourself flying down wind in a 10 plus MPH wind, you're dead!

Actually, I really love the 450 motor/SPAD combination. I just have to watch that dumb throttle thumb especially when flying in very much wind. The extra power easily allows not only more comfortable flying in windy weather but a greater margin of safety so useful in fighter plane aerobatics excitement. Interestingly, the E-Flite 450 motor balances the plane perfectly on the CG.

AMERICA'S ACE website (see above url) explains how modifications can make it possible to enjoy the ultimate in WWI flying machine ROG landing pleasures.

I love my SPAD! If I can ever manage to learn to fly it well close in, it could become my very favorite demonstration aerobatics machine.

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Kostas1

Ou


OUUU,

thank you so much for so much information about the Spad and ofcourse for your kind words,
i really don't think i am such a good person

Thank's again!

mad web tv scientist

Kostas, thank you for your post! It's modelers like yourself that makes modeling so rewarding. The planes are only tools in the onward and upward march to immortality.

Four different planes were flown today. The SPAD performed flawlessly once I adjusted the landing gear to enjoy straight ROG performance. The SPAD did not flip over even once today. Takeoff and landing was very nice on the neatly trimmed soccer field.

On one of my landing approaches after I had throttled down and began to throttle up again there seemed to be a "glitch" as I continued to throttle up. There was a pause and then suddenly a "jerk as the plane was brought under control. I landed shortly thereafter, a little shaken by that brief "control interruption."

The SPAD is equipped with an AR6100E receiver. A DX5e transmitter with battery voltage down on the first green light was used after demonstrating a good range check. The plane was only about 200 feet away when the glitch occurred. I guess it is at least a possibility that I stalled the left wing(s) slightly by throttling up a little too quickly. Whatever it was, that delay in positive control spooked me. I must start remembering to apply right rudder when throttling up.

A slight amount more right thrust adjustment on the SPAD has now reversed the up deflection angles of the ailerons at normal level flight as reported earlier. It is possible that the 24 pound test Fusion Spider Wire rigging also played a part in the different control deflection angles.

The wind shifted on me when I first tried to take off with the Sopwith Camel and it "tripped and flipped" over on its back on the first take off attempt. The second attempt looked as good as the flawless SPAD takeoff I enjoyed earlier. Evidently, the new rigging that I had just installed on the Sopwith Camel succeeded in warping some of the washout of my left wing(s) because a significant amount of right up aileron trim was now needed to fly straight and level.

While practicing landing approaches I had one really obvious torque roll experience with the Camel. After a "flip over" landing (yes, I need a lot of landing practice) I decided to loosen up the rigging and replace the 11X4.8 SF APC prop with an 11X3.8 like what I am running on the SPAD. Again, the main thing I must remember is to ALWAYS apply right rudder when throttling my WWI flying machines up.

The other two planes that I flew were my motor powered gliders that I checked to be sure they were ready for use with newbies.

At the moment I am anxiously waiting for the hobby shop to call me to come and take delivery of my new MESSERSCHMITT!


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Kostas1

Oh,

thank God it wasn't something more serious ,because it could have lead to... [:'(]

Anyway,

do you have any pics of the Spad?

mad web tv scientist

Kostas, yes, AMERICA'S ACE web page < http://community-2.webtv.net/RICHARD...ORY/page5.html > has some pictures that you might find useful. Let me know if you have any special picture requests and I will put them on the next page after AMERICA'S ACE web page.

Please be patient with me though, my web page creating system will be intermittently out of action for weeks at a time during the next month and a half due to current mission requirements in the culture war that modeling is helping to win. Yes, the status quo of today will soon be history in more ways that one in the shockingly fast blitzkrieg victory of truth.

A SLEEPING GIANT HAS AWAKENED!!!!

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