Dualsky F3A motor

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Old 04-15-2018, 09:04 PM
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e156642
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Default Dualsky F3A motor

Thought I would try the new series of Dulsky motors. Was I WRONG.
I first purchased a XM6350DA-12 which I had no end of trouble with. I am running a Jetti spin 99 and couldn't go over 1/2 throttle all I got was a high pitched squeal and motor stopped.
After contacting Dualsky about what settings are recommended, I tried again, same results. Went through almost every setup for timing but couldn't get it to run over 1/2 throttle. Getting desperate I purchased the Dualsky speed controller, it arrived in good order motor now can run to full power. The Dualsky speed controller doesn't offer great breaking so didn't enable it (it is also quite heavy). New BJ Element aircraft 3 flights later smoke came from the model. Landed and found that motor had burnt out.Lucky model didn't catch fire. (putting my model at jeopardy again)
Contacted Dualsky for replacement to which they claimed I was running the incorrect prop for the motor, and stated the motor XM6355DA-13 is the correct one.
I then ordered this motor, installed it and had 16 flights before a strange noise appeared. Removed motor from the aircraft again and diagnosed problem. Problem is that some the magnets in the rotating can had come loose dragging on the rotating parts.(putting my model at jeopardy again)
Tried twice to contact Dualsky for a replacement, to which there has been no response at all.
Is this how Dualsky treats their customers?
Beware DUALSKY don't back their products!
Should have just purchased another Q80 at least these are reliable and have decent backup. The 2 motors and speed controller purchased would have paid for a Q80 or Plettenburg.
Now stuck with a model which is really difficult to modify as special motor mount was made and glassed into position.
NOT GOOD ENOUGH DUALSKY !
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:17 PM
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speedracerntrixie
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I am at a loss of what to tell you. I agree that they should be talking with you to solve your issue. I however without getting more information about your setup will not make any assumptions that Dualsky puts out a poor product. I have been flying a 6355DA-12 motor now for over a year and am very pleased with it. I am running a OS 1100HV speed control with timing set to 25 degrees and the brake at 15%. The prop being used is a Falcon 19x13 3 blade prop that has been cut down to 18.25". The motor is always cool after landing.

I would be interested in knowing what your timing is set to, what size prop you are running and would like to see pictures that show your cooling air intake and exit. Being that your motor is 220KV and with running 10S the largest prop that should be run with that motor would be a 20x13.
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Old 04-24-2018, 01:31 AM
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Default Setup used

Motor
XM6355DA-13
SN:170607-1 08

Speed Controller
XC10036HV default factory settings brake disabled

Propellor
PT 20x13EL (3 blade)

Battery 10s LiPo = 42V

Model
BJ Craft Element 4850g
All inlet and outlet cooling holes cut as per templates supplied with model.
Also using a Carcon Falcon cooling spinner, motor mount also has the cooling slots cut into it to match the motor.
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Old 04-24-2018, 03:44 AM
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marrinersgarage
 
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I've recently bought a 6350DA12 and was advised not to run anything bigger than a 20x13 2 blade. I havent installed it yet so no experience so far that I can add. How many amps were you pulling?
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Old 04-24-2018, 03:59 AM
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The 20x13 three blade prop is too much for a 220 KV motor. I'm not familiar with that speed control and have no idea what factory settings are but for a large outrunner the timing should be around 23-26 degrees. If for some reason the speed control factory settings are for an inrunner then the timing would be set to no more then 10 degrees. I can easily see where with that prop and with running an unknown timing setting just about any brand motor is going to fail.
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Old 04-24-2018, 03:59 PM
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e156642
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Originally Posted by marrinersgarage View Post
I've recently bought a 6350DA12 and was advised not to run anything bigger than a 20x13 2 blade. I havent installed it yet so no experience so far that I can add. How many amps were you pulling?
The issue is not with the motor you are running. This was actually my fault as the prop was too much load on this occasion.
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
The 20x13 three blade prop is too much for a 220 KV motor. I'm not familiar with that speed control and have no idea what factory settings are but for a large outrunner the timing should be around 23-26 degrees. If for some reason the speed control factory settings are for an inrunner then the timing would be set to no more then 10 degrees. I can easily see where with that prop and with running an unknown timing setting just about any brand motor is going to fail.
Direct quote from Dualsky below

“You mentioned that you used PT 20x13, but if it's 3-blade propeller. The load was too much for XM6250DA-220KV. This maybe the reason.

The right setup is : 20x13EL(3-blade), XM6355DA-13 200KV.”

This is what I was running when the magnets came loose. Dualsky replied to my replacement request about 10 days after my email requested further information on setup. This was sent over 7days ago still no response. The customer service they offer is nonexistent.
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Old 04-25-2018, 08:18 AM
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I agree that they would be answering emails more quickly. However do not know where your timing is set. This is important as having the timing too far off will cause the motor to run hot as will not having enough air flow past the motor. Neither of these questions have been answered yet.
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Old 04-26-2018, 02:42 PM
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Default Timing

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I agree that they would be answering emails more quickly. However do not know where your timing is set. This is important as having the timing too far off will cause the motor to run hot as will not having enough air flow past the motor. Neither of these questions have been answered yet.
I connected the USB link to the Dualsky ESC model # XC10036HV to check the timing for you it is set to "Middle"
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Old 05-08-2018, 02:33 AM
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Dualsky have agreed to replace the rotor, however true to their form they haven't actually sent a replacement nor replied to my requests.

FAIL DUALSKY!!!!
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Old 05-08-2018, 03:55 AM
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I would highly suggest that while waiting for your new motor you learn about them. I do not think that the issues you are having are the fault of the motors. I could be wrong but the information or lack of leads me to beleive you have little experience running large electrics and your setup is what is damaging the motors.
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Old 05-09-2018, 02:31 AM
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Speedracerntrixie, do you work for Dualsky??

I have been running electric F3A models since 2010, have had no issues with previous setups and NO motor failures until I tried Dualsky.
I currently run a Plettenberg with the same size prop on another model without any sign of failure and have been for 4years.
Previous to this I was running a Hacker Q80 from 2010-2017 no issues either.
I run a delay on the throttle channel so large current spikes or draw are not experienced.


Below is a direct extract from an email by Dualsky.

You mentioned that you used PT 20x13, but if it's 3-blade propeller. The load was too much for XM6250DA-220KV. This maybe the reason.
The right setup is : 20x13EL(3-blade), XM6355DA-13 200KV.

Good day.
Hobbyservices 2

I have admitted that the XM6250DA-220KV was my fault if you read the previous emails.
I then purchased "The right setup is : 20x13EL(3-blade), XM6355DA-13 200KV" from Dualsky which lasted for 16 flights before the magnets have moved.
If you can't trust the manufacturer who can you trust? This was their advice.

The failure
After landing the motor is 52Deg C, however when the magnets came loose the motor registered 91Deg C probably due to the extra friction caused by the magnets dragging on the internals.
Motor previous to failure never got hot, also my batteries didn't even get warm enough to measure on the indicator strips.
Burst current for motor is 93A for 15secs
Peak power 3430W for 15secs equates to 81.7A
Cruising power 1890W for 30mins equates to 45A

Firstly when I fly I hardly get to full throttle, if I do it's only for about 1-2secs max.
Most of the schedule is at 1/2 throttle or idle with the exception of some verticals which is covered above. Most verticals done at 3/4 throttle.
​​​​​​​My cruising power is slightly higher than the quoted figure about 50A however the flight is over within 8mins so everything as a whole is within tolerance.
As for air flow, setup has
- Falcon carbon fibre cooling spinner
- Custom mount cutouts to suit Dualsky mounting
- Vents next to motor opening behind mount mount
- Vent cut into chin cowl with air deflector
- Large exhaust holes to let the warm air out

I don't profess to be an expert in electrics and mistakes are made as I said earlier. When this happens I take full responsibility.

The fact is the motor failed when it shouldn't have.
Dualsky now claim the setup is incorrect after putting it in writing
"The right setup is : 20x13EL(3-blade), XM6355DA-13 200KV", who's mistake is it?

Even though they have said they will replace the rotor on this occasion, I doubt I will ever see it.

Going to modify this model to fit a proper F3A motor in it, OS Belt Drive Unit


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Old 05-09-2018, 08:16 AM
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My apologies but I am only going on the information that you are providing. Your timing setting is one thing that is concerning to me. The description that you give leads me to believe that you are running this motor at 10-15 degrees of timing. By comparison I am running mine at 25 degrees. Running at the wrong timing setting will cause the motor to run hot which is the leading cause of magnets coming loose. Your motor should normally run no more then 110-115F.
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Old 05-09-2018, 02:06 PM
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Yes I was running my motor on mid timing however the instructions indicate this should be ok.

From manual below.
6. Timing:Low(0) / Medium(10) / High(20), default is Medium.
In normal cases, low timing can be used for most motors. But for high efficiency, we recommend the Low timing for 2 poles motor and Medium timing for 6 poles and above. For higher speed and large outrunner, High timing could be useful.

High timing could be useful not much of a description.
Large outrunner where do you draw the line
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Old 05-09-2018, 02:25 PM
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I agree, those instructions suck. I would suggest however to run a minimum of 20 degrees on a 63mm outrunner.
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Old 05-10-2018, 10:53 AM
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I would definitely not complain about poor customer service or instructions at the prices that dualsky charges for their motors. I just received my 6350da-12 for about $180 delivered to my door. I am getting back into pattern here after about a decade out of the sport and learning about all the new electric stuff is quite a chore at times. Since people in this thread seem to be using dualsky motors, does anyone have any advice mounting one in a nuance? Do I require a mount of some sort, or does it simply bolt to the nosering? I also see there is a rear support bracket from the previously installed motor (q80 i believe) should I somehow make use of this?
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Old 05-10-2018, 03:36 PM
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I would suggest the Dualsky mount. I used one in my Hydeaway that previously had an AXI 5330 F3A installed. The mount converts it to a rear mount setup but even better as the motor is supported at both ends.
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Old 05-10-2018, 04:38 PM
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Apparently I cannot upload a picture because I have not hit the minimum post count yet. Anyways the nuance has a front mount system in the nose ring already. If I used the dualsky mount i'd have to build a firewall. I was just curious is if anything else was necessary to mount the motor to the nose. I already have it bolted in but didn't know if there was anything i was missing.
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Old 05-10-2018, 04:49 PM
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I would add a rear support much like the one here.
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Old 05-10-2018, 05:18 PM
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Ah okay. I believe there was one in there for the previous motor. It is however way father back than one would need to be for the dualsky. I'll have to add this in. I could build the brackat, any idea where to find the neat middle part that supports the back of the motor? Looks like there some sort of bushing or something in there as well.
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:50 AM
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I've test flown my 6350DA-12 with my old Hyperion Titan ESC but on the ground couldn't find any timing setting which did not screech at full throttle. I had 4 flights using the 'auto' timing setting and no detectable screeching in the air and plenty of power with the APC 20x13 prop.

I don't like the screeching noise though so am investigating ESC options to see if I can remove it. The advice I got back from Dualsky re the timing was to use what they refer to as 'low' and I clarified that to mean 0-3 degrees. I'll look to try a different esc next and see if I can avoid the screech.
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by marrinersgarage View Post
I've test flown my 6350DA-12 with my old Hyperion Titan ESC but on the ground couldn't find any timing setting which did not screech at full throttle. I had 4 flights using the 'auto' timing setting and no detectable screeching in the air and plenty of power with the APC 20x13 prop.

I don't like the screeching noise though so am investigating ESC options to see if I can remove it. The advice I got back from Dualsky re the timing was to use what they refer to as 'low' and I clarified that to mean 0-3 degrees. I'll look to try a different esc next and see if I can avoid the screech.
Hi,
I use 15 deg timing and Graupner ESC 80 amp With 10s 5000mah battery this run perfectly With my Dualsky XM 6350DA-14 swinging a 21x13 PT propeller.
Regards
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