Rudder -> Elevator mix for knife edge?
11-01-2003, 06:54 PM
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Rudder -> Elevator mix for knife edge?
Is there a way to mix up elevator with rudder for knife edge flight?
I can mix up elevator with rudder in one direction, but it becomes down elevator with rudder travel the other way.
I can mix up elevator with rudder in one direction, but it becomes down elevator with rudder travel the other way.
11-25-2003, 02:47 AM
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RE: Rudder -> Elevator mix for knife edge?
To be honest,
You need to call in and ask for John Gill. We haven't had this particular mix asked for, so we need to experiment. John Gill will do that for you.
Yours truly,
Lewis Polk
You need to call in and ask for John Gill. We haven't had this particular mix asked for, so we need to experiment. John Gill will do that for you.
Yours truly,
Lewis Polk
11-25-2003, 10:08 PM
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RE: Rudder -> Elevator mix for knife edge?
This is the mix that almost all aerobatic pilots will want. Unfortunately, I don't think it is possible[
]. I was saving my last unused mix for this so I was very dissapointed to find I couldn't do it.
]. I was saving my last unused mix for this so I was very dissapointed to find I couldn't do it.
11-28-2003, 09:37 PM
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RE: Rudder -> Elevator mix for knife edge?
Wow, this is huge man. talk aboput a huge miss!!! I was days from ordering the Polk, I'm starting to think there is a large gap between the design of this radio and the pilots who must use it.
It's the 9C for me I guess. Too bad really, I loved the idea of the scanner and sythesizer, and the reciever sounded good too.
It's the 9C for me I guess. Too bad really, I loved the idea of the scanner and sythesizer, and the reciever sounded good too.
12-01-2003, 03:30 PM
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RE: Rudder -> Elevator mix for knife edge?
I talked to John Gill on the phone earlier this afternoon. He seemed helpful, but I'm not totally sure I was explaining myself clearly.
I was surprised at his statement that this kind of mix could only be done by a couple of other radios he knows of. My JR X-347 from 12years ago does this mix just fine. (and, in fact, I'm moving my current acrobatic planes off of my Polk transmitter and back on to my old JR, which is a shame.)
The key is to have the percentage of the mix set seperately for left and right stick travel. Currently, as far as I can tell, all the TrackerII mixes have a single mix percentage that applies for the full travel of the master channel. On other radios, the percentage is set seperately for the positive and negitive movements of the master channel.
So, if you have a rudder->elevator mix set up, you could set +10% elevator for full left rudder, and +15% elevator for full right rudder. This gives you up elevator for both left and right rudder. 0 rudder would make for 0 elevator travel, of course.
Looking at some online manuals for other makes of radios, I see the JR XP662 has this ability. This being a fairly entry level computer radio, it's the cheapest current JR radio that has user programable mixes.
The Futaba 6EXA has only 1 mix, and it does not have this ability, it's mix is simular to the TrakerII, however, the Futaba 6XAS has the feature, and explains it fairly well in the manual, using knife-edge mixing as the example, in fact.
I think it's safe to assume that any Futaba or JR radio "higher" in their line than the JR XP662 or 6XAS would keep this feature. (I don't have time to look up Airtronics manuals online, but I'd be willing to bet they are simular).
Now, I also noticed when playing with my TrackerII, that the mixes can be set up as bi-directional, ie, a mix set up as aileron->rudder has a percentage for that mix, but it also has a second percentage for doing rudder->aileron, and it acutally works that way when I tried it out. Using the memory for those two percentages for positive and negitive stick travels, and making the mix go only one way would be a major improvement in the radio for acrobatic airplanes. (Obviously, I don't know much about the internals of the TrackerII, but I have seen in other threads were the TrackerII was described as being nearly out of memory. Here's a place to recover enough memory to make the radio a lot more useful).
John did mention that I could, in theory, use two mixes, one set up for up elevator with right rudder and the other with up elevator on left rudder. Then I'd have to hit the correct mix switch while rolling in to knife edge. A 4-point roll would be exciting, as I'd have to flip two switches part way though the roll. And some of the maneuvers I do now, such as rolling from one knife edge directly in to the other would be really a trick. In theory, I could hook them up to one switch, so that one position was left->up and the other was right->up, but since the TrackerII does not support 3 position switches, I'd never be able to turn the mix off, which would mak slipping in for a landing a real trick. Anyway, having to flip multiple switches like that is way too much effort for a fairly basic feature.
PS, I think the reason the folks at Polk haven't heard much abotu this mix in the past is because most guys do a fair bit of research when shopping for radios (even if the research is mostly talking to other guys they know about their radios). Guys who want a knife-edge mix will make sure a radio has it before they buy. They won't bother talking to a company about it, they just buy gear that does what they want. I get a fair amount of interest at my club (around 200 members) with my radio, as it's different, and I change channels a fair bit. When talking about it, guys love the scanner, and the frequency agility. But when we talk about mixes, they quickly get disappointed and get an "oh, never mind, I guess I'll get the Futaba or JR" attitude going. Just among guys I know, I'd say the lack of this mix has lost at least 2 sales for the TrackerII. And it looks like Gordo makes #3. Just my experience, YMMV.
I was surprised at his statement that this kind of mix could only be done by a couple of other radios he knows of. My JR X-347 from 12years ago does this mix just fine. (and, in fact, I'm moving my current acrobatic planes off of my Polk transmitter and back on to my old JR, which is a shame.)
The key is to have the percentage of the mix set seperately for left and right stick travel. Currently, as far as I can tell, all the TrackerII mixes have a single mix percentage that applies for the full travel of the master channel. On other radios, the percentage is set seperately for the positive and negitive movements of the master channel.
So, if you have a rudder->elevator mix set up, you could set +10% elevator for full left rudder, and +15% elevator for full right rudder. This gives you up elevator for both left and right rudder. 0 rudder would make for 0 elevator travel, of course.
Looking at some online manuals for other makes of radios, I see the JR XP662 has this ability. This being a fairly entry level computer radio, it's the cheapest current JR radio that has user programable mixes.
The Futaba 6EXA has only 1 mix, and it does not have this ability, it's mix is simular to the TrakerII, however, the Futaba 6XAS has the feature, and explains it fairly well in the manual, using knife-edge mixing as the example, in fact.
I think it's safe to assume that any Futaba or JR radio "higher" in their line than the JR XP662 or 6XAS would keep this feature. (I don't have time to look up Airtronics manuals online, but I'd be willing to bet they are simular).
Now, I also noticed when playing with my TrackerII, that the mixes can be set up as bi-directional, ie, a mix set up as aileron->rudder has a percentage for that mix, but it also has a second percentage for doing rudder->aileron, and it acutally works that way when I tried it out. Using the memory for those two percentages for positive and negitive stick travels, and making the mix go only one way would be a major improvement in the radio for acrobatic airplanes. (Obviously, I don't know much about the internals of the TrackerII, but I have seen in other threads were the TrackerII was described as being nearly out of memory. Here's a place to recover enough memory to make the radio a lot more useful).
John did mention that I could, in theory, use two mixes, one set up for up elevator with right rudder and the other with up elevator on left rudder. Then I'd have to hit the correct mix switch while rolling in to knife edge. A 4-point roll would be exciting, as I'd have to flip two switches part way though the roll. And some of the maneuvers I do now, such as rolling from one knife edge directly in to the other would be really a trick. In theory, I could hook them up to one switch, so that one position was left->up and the other was right->up, but since the TrackerII does not support 3 position switches, I'd never be able to turn the mix off, which would mak slipping in for a landing a real trick. Anyway, having to flip multiple switches like that is way too much effort for a fairly basic feature.
PS, I think the reason the folks at Polk haven't heard much abotu this mix in the past is because most guys do a fair bit of research when shopping for radios (even if the research is mostly talking to other guys they know about their radios). Guys who want a knife-edge mix will make sure a radio has it before they buy. They won't bother talking to a company about it, they just buy gear that does what they want. I get a fair amount of interest at my club (around 200 members) with my radio, as it's different, and I change channels a fair bit. When talking about it, guys love the scanner, and the frequency agility. But when we talk about mixes, they quickly get disappointed and get an "oh, never mind, I guess I'll get the Futaba or JR" attitude going. Just among guys I know, I'd say the lack of this mix has lost at least 2 sales for the TrackerII. And it looks like Gordo makes #3. Just my experience, YMMV.
12-01-2003, 06:50 PM
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RE: Rudder -> Elevator mix for knife edge?
ORIGINAL: Montague
John did mention that I could, in theory, use two mixes, one set up for up elevator with right rudder and the other with up elevator on left rudder. Then I'd have to hit the correct mix switch while rolling in to knife edge. A 4-point roll would be exciting, as I'd have to flip two switches part way though the roll. And some of the maneuvers I do now, such as rolling from one knife edge directly in to the other would be really a trick. In theory, I could hook them up to one switch, so that one position was left->up and the other was right->up, but since the TrackerII does not support 3 position switches, I'd never be able to turn the mix off, which would mak slipping in for a landing a real trick. Anyway, having to flip multiple switches like that is way too much effort for a fairly basic feature.
John did mention that I could, in theory, use two mixes, one set up for up elevator with right rudder and the other with up elevator on left rudder. Then I'd have to hit the correct mix switch while rolling in to knife edge. A 4-point roll would be exciting, as I'd have to flip two switches part way though the roll. And some of the maneuvers I do now, such as rolling from one knife edge directly in to the other would be really a trick. In theory, I could hook them up to one switch, so that one position was left->up and the other was right->up, but since the TrackerII does not support 3 position switches, I'd never be able to turn the mix off, which would mak slipping in for a landing a real trick. Anyway, having to flip multiple switches like that is way too much effort for a fairly basic feature.
Sorry Mr. Polk. You've got a great idea, and I hope you get it right soon. Get a really great pilot, I mean Chyp Hyde level, to tell you all the things ho does with his 9zap or equivalent JR and get those mixes going.
Hopefully you'll get it done before Futaba comes out with a 9C with scanner and total frequency synth.
12-15-2003, 05:23 PM
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RE: Rudder -> Elevator mix for knife edge?
Back on Dec 1st, I talked to John Gill as I mentioned above. He said he would call back with some kind of answer, but he hasn't yet called back. I did leave my phone number with them. However, I haven't yet tried calling back myself. I'll do that later this week to see if there is any news.
01-16-2004, 02:30 PM
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RE: Rudder -> Elevator mix for knife edge?
Just to bump this topic, and a small update...
I talked to John Gill again about a week ago. He said they were looking in to it, but it appeared harder to do than he intially thought, so it will take some time to figure out, so they might not have time to do it at all.
Which is a real shame, as I really like this radio, but the mixing is just not up to par.
I talked to John Gill again about a week ago. He said they were looking in to it, but it appeared harder to do than he intially thought, so it will take some time to figure out, so they might not have time to do it at all.
Which is a real shame, as I really like this radio, but the mixing is just not up to par.
