lewispolk

Dear All,

The Tracker III Preliminary Manual is not on line at www.pollkshobby.com. Move your mouse over the
support field and an option will come up for the manual and also one for the facts about the two versions of the radio.

Yours truly,
Lewis Polk

Montague

I just looked at the manual. It's mostly a tracker II manual that's had some small changes made (which makes sense). But the parts I really want to know about are still all Tracker II information. Any idea when we might see some info about the mixing features? I really want to know if the Tracker III will properly do rudder->elevator mixing for knife edge, since the Tracker II doesn't handle it.

RC-Captain

Not to but in , but as far as the mixes I beleive you have more on the tracker III. As far as doing the mix you are seeking I would say yes you can mix the elevator and the tail for a knife edge. How just program it and before flying hit the switch you asign the mix to and see if it will hold the plane in the knife edge.

Good Luck.

Montague

I'm not sure what you are saying there. Yes, the T3 will have more mixes. But that's not enough to make the mixing really useful.

The problem is that the mixes on the Tracker2 don't handle knife edge correctly. If you have a plane that pitches towards the gear when you apply rudder in knife edge you need to mix up elevator. So, if you add left rudder, you need up elevator. If you add RIGHT rudder, you need UP elevator. The Tracker 2 can't do this.

All of the mixes on the Tracker2 are linear, meaning that if you get up elevator with left rudder, you then down elevator with right rudder, which is wrong.

In theory, you could set up 2 switches and turn off one and turn on the other. But that's totally stupid, and totally worthless. Try doing a 4 point roll where you have to be flipping swithes part way through the roll. Won't work.

Every other computer radio I've looked at above the most basic entry level 6 channel units support this kind of knife edge mix. I've moved my acrobatic planes off my Tracker 2 and on to a 12year old JR x-347 because the JR's mixing is so much better than the Tracker 2's.

I am hoping they fix this problem with the mixing with the Tracker 3. Polk has at least said they will, but until I see it noted in the manual, or get the transmitter in my hands, I won't be absolutely confident that this is done well.

Btw, to do it "right" you really need to set 2 different percentages, one for each direction of stick travel. You might only need 10% up elevator with right rudder, but 12% up elevator with left rudder to hold a knife edge. Again, my x-347 does this. I hope the T3 does too.

RC-Captain

I'm not experienced enough to know what types of mixes the tracker II or III can handle. I do know the tracker II has 3-2 way mixes and the Tracker III has 7 mixes plus V tail,flap. and elevon.

As far as the switch I was trying to explain assigning the mixes to a switch for on off purposes. If not assigned to a switch how do you fly the plane with the tail always mixing with the elevator ? In other words for your roll mix on your JR it is always on , so when you are turining left or right your radio is also giving the elevator a command also . I'm confused. Do you only turn with the tail ? then this would make sense.
Then again it would'nt because to get the plane into a knife edge you have to use the ailerons so if not using a switch ......I dont get it.[&o]

Montague

I do have the mix on a switch, so I turn it off when I'm taking off or landing, and I usually turn it off before a snaproll or spin, but I keep it on the rest of the flight.

We are talking very small elevator imputs here, 10% is actually quite a lot, it's usually smaller. That means that for 100% rudder, the elevator has only moved 10% of it's throw. Considering that I don't use full rudder just turning, the elevator input does't affect just flying around at all.

You should try some mixing uses, you'd see what I'm talking about.

The Tracker II's mixing being 2-way is intersting, but not as useful as being able to set the mix percentage for each direction of travel. If they would use that 2nd percentage to create a mix that had 2 percentages, and make the mix 1-way, I would be a lot happier with the mixing of the Tracker.

Don't get me wrong, for the most part, I really like the Tracker II. But it's mixing is just weak, way below what other radios in the 7-9 channel class have, and less than other TX's in the same price range. You should pop over to the JR and Futaba support web sites and read through some of the manuals for their mid-level radios, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

RC-Captain

Thanks...... I think the information you are providing is different from what I was told when I picked my tracker II up for the first time. The only problem described to me was there where only 3 , 2way mixes . which isn't enough the fly helicopters .

As far as direction of travel I am looking at the manual and I see for every mix listed a positive side percentage and a negative side percentage. I will go to JR's web site and see if I can understand the difference .

Good luck with getting an answer. [8D]

RC-Captain

I found this in the JR web site . This radio cost twice if not more as much as the tracker III. But very well may be worth it, maybe one day I will see huh...

Montague

Well, I wouldn't bother comparing an 8103 to a TrackerII. The 8103 has far superior mixing and such, but as you pointed out, it's a lot more expensive. So I don't consider that a problem.

the JR 6102 has the kind of mixes I hope the Tracker3 will have. If you look up how thier "free mixes" work. It's around page 40 in the manual from the website.

The Hitec Optic 6 has 2 free mixes that also have this feature. It's described in bullet 4 of page 39 on the manual here:

http://www.hitecrcd.com/Support/Manu...Manual%202.pdf

The Optic 6 sells for the same or less than the Tracker II, but has better mixing. I hope the TrackerIII will fix that.

RC-Captain

Ok I see what you mean but everything described in the manual can be accomplished with the tracker II. But the tracker two ONLY has 3 two way mixes so if you set it up for a knife edge it only leaves you one more two way mix.with no free mixes. Therefore the Hitech radio will be better for mix reasons , But the tracker II for frequency purposes. and model saving capabilities.

Montague

Well, no, I don't agree that you can accomplish the same thing. You wind up having to hit 2 switches if you roll from one knife edge to the other, as you would in a 4-point roll. That's just not reasonable. You really want to set switches before entering a maneuver, not trying to reset things part way through.

RC-Captain

This came from a JR web page for the JR propo XP8103 radio. And the only way I can understand this is in order to execute a snap roll is to hit a switch. I guess you have somtehing eles in mind for executing your snap rolls which may have to do with dual rates.

Montague

Huh? I never mentioned anything about duel rates or snaprolls.

As it happens, I do prefer to execute snap rolls manually, I personally don't like the idea of snaproll switches. It's a personal preference thing with me. (You can disable the snaproll switch by setting the offsets to 0, so the switch doesn't move any of the surfances at all. But if you have it enabled, you can't turn it on and off in flight on teh 8103 based on what you quoted, which, to me, sounds like a "bad thing". The last thing I'd want is to accidentally hit a snaproll swtich when I didn't want it.

As for duel rates, when I use them, I select the rate I want, execute the maneuver, then re-set the rate switch if necessary. But I don't use duel rates very often. Most of my planes snap roll just fine, so it's not a big deal to me, and I don't usually need more or less control throw. I do use expo a lot. But that's all personal preferance.

I AM glad to see, based on the online manual, that the T3 appears to have the expo percentage setable on a swtich, which if it's on the same switch as the duel rates, allows you to have differnet expo settings on different rates, a very good thing, and something I was surprised the T2 didn't have. In fact, by making a seperate setting and allowing it to be on a different swtich from duel rates, it actually goes one better than most radio's I've looked at. I don't know why someone would want to have duel rates and expo on different swtiches, but it's nice to have the flexibility, just in case.

RC-Captain

Hi , we may have to start another post about how others are accomplishing there knife edges with or with-out programming.

Today I went to my favorite LHS and ask a guy, whom I thing is by far the most advanced RCer I have ever met, about programming for a knife edge and in his astonishment he said why would you program mixes for a knife edge ?
He was on a simulator and he switched from the heli to some kind of sport plane , I'm not sure which one , and did a knife edge for ever . He also completed an oval shaped circle with out breaking the knife edge one bit. It was so steady I couldn't beleive it . I ask how can you do that , he said practice, and went on to tell me he has been flying for years.

Not to get off your topic about hitting , or using programs to do knife edges but I told him about our conversation and he said, you wanted the plane to fly it self in a knife edge. Let me know if you want me to start the thread and I will tonight. I'm getting a sport plane soon so I am VERY interested in knowing all I can about manuveurs.

Montague

A lot depends on the plane. Some planes have very little coupling in knife edge. When you apply rudder, they don't pitch or roll. Getting them to not roll is easy, you adjust the dihedral until the plane doesn't roll with rudder. A good acrobatic kit or ARF should have the dihedral set for this already. So that leaves the elevator. Some plane don't pitch much, some pitch a lot. Some pitch "up" towards the canopy, some "down" towards the gear.

It's a lot easier on a sim than in person. I was flying a 33% extra on a sim, and driving it around knife edge, right on the deck, all over the place. In the real world it's not that easy.

Now, if you have a plane that isn't designed for competition acrobatics, it's likely to have more coupling. I have a Waco biplane. With out any mixes, when you hit the rudder, it rolls and pitches A LOT. It's the nature of the plane. But it looks so cool in a knife edge.

So, to get a straight knife edge with out mixing, you have to roll to knife edge, apply rudder, then hold just the right amounts of elevator and aileron in manually. It's possible, but it's tough. The idea is to use the mixing to make flying easier and more fun and less work.

The tracker can mix out most of the roll coupling (but since it's only 1 percent setting, it's not perfect, I have to still hold a little aileron when I'm in a left-side knife edge, but the right side knife edge is fine, I mixed out the roll coupling totally on the right.

The problem is the pitch. To keep this plane going straight requires a LOT of down elevator. The plane naturally pitches up with rudder.

Going from a plane that requires you to hold a bunch of aileron and elevator to one that holds straight is like night and day, it's amazing how much better your flying looks.

Anyway, the point is that most radios in the same price range as the T2 and T3 have this feature, and a lot of people would like it as well. I've had a number of guys at my field interested in the Tracker until they learn that the mixing is what it is. Then they just go "oh, never mind, that radio can't work for me", and that's it. Believe it or not, the weak mixing IS loosing sales for Polk.

RC-Captain

Ok I know, you know, what you are capable of doing with the plane ,mixes, and radio. I'm getting ready to get into aerobatic flying soon and will try to understand the mixes you are talking about before I try to perform the manuvers.

Polks Hobby should have answered this matter by now , but if I were you, I would just give them a call they are very professional in handling problems. 973-351-9800. If you want, I will try to call them for you since I live next door to the warehouse. Also you can email them and get a speedy answer, normally with-in 24 hours.

Good Luck.

Montague

Actually, I did talk to them about this a couple of times on the phone. When I first talked to John Gill, he told me that it was only available on a couple of the very top-of-the-line transmitters. I sent email and posted references to several 6 channel Futaba and JR transmitters that did this to show that he was incorrect about that. It is, in fact, a very common feature. I asked again recently about it on their forums. I haven't actually heard anything from them that is definitive. No one has said for sure "yes, this is in the T3".

I forget where I read it, but someone did say something that sounded like T3 might have this feature. But it wasn't clear, and there has been no follow up.

If you can get an absolute answer, that would be great. I'm not at all sure they are listening very closely though.

The feature, in it's most simple form, is to allow the mixing % to be set for each direction of master-channel-stick travel. Two percentages for the mix, instead of the 1 that the T2 has now.

I've noticed in talking to the folks and Polk, and sending my T2 back in for repairs (it's going back for the 3rd time for the same problem, but that's another story), that some of the people at Polk believe they have a near-perfect radio and don't like to hear someone suggest the radio isn't the greatest thing. I often get a very arrogant "feel" from Polk (the company as a whole). And they sometimes seem to jump to conclusions. I think that's what happened with my still-not-fixed T2, the service guy didn't actually verify the problem was fixed before sending it back to me. Hopefully it will get fixed right this time.

RC-Captain

You may be dealing with the wrong person, or maybe I got lucky and dealt with the right person. When I first bought my radio instead of handing it to me (when I went to the plant and picked it up) the rep. sat me down and went through thwe entire list of features. I greatly appreciated this but didn't expect this type of hospitality.

As far as problems with the radio I had only one problem and it was solved within the same day. Once again I didn't expect this type of service but received it.....I really dont think there is a BEST radio out there as I have heard problems from all of them. But just go to Polks web page and you will see the Prices are phenomenal. Just compare battery prices to other sites . Both rados give you the option to choose all frequncies with in a certain band . This is what sold me. No other radio out there has this capability.

Montague

Actually, synth transmitters are becoming more and more common. Polk is hardly the only one that can do this. The Hitec Eclipse/Optic has the spectra module. Futaba has at least 1 synth TX. Multiplex has had this ability for quite a while. Heck, Mutiplex also has a scanner like the Tracker. Yes, it's more expensive. But you said "no other radio", and that's just false. Get your facts straight.

(And a number of guys are using the Hitec module in Futaba transmitters of various types. It seems to work well, and the fact that it fits physically can't be an accident on Hitec's part. It is illegal in the US under FCC rules though).

As far as I know JR and Airtronics are the only major companies that don't have a frequency selectable transmitter.

(The Seeker RX is much more unique and a really nice bit of gear. I know guys using Hitec TX's and Seeker RX's for just this reason. I *THINK* the Seeker is unique in the ability to change channels with out physical access to the RX (beyond a swtich that can be remotely mounted)). But we are talking transmitters here, so the RX features don't enter in to it.

RC-Captain

LOL I do know what I am talking about....I would like you to show me or tell me the name of a radio and a receiver that will choose all 50 channels on a 72 mhz band.... and it must do it with one reaceiver not changing any equipment as you stated above. 1 receiver 1 transmitter.

7 model memory hahahahaha, yes it can do 50 channels but only with what ? A POLKS HOBBY SEEKER II RECIEVER ,AND NOT TO MENTION IT ONLY HAS SEVEN CHANNELS ON THE RADIO, POLKS HAS 8. [X(]

Montague

Dude, chill out on the cool aid, ok? Look around, do some research.

There is nothing the Polk can do that can't be done by another TX.

What is unique is the Polk doing the combination of frequency synth, scanner, and 99 model memory at that price.

One channel +/- isn't a big deal. Tell me, have you personally used 7 channels of your polk? I doubt it. How many airplanes do you own? What feature of the Polk do you use that would prevent you from switching to an Eclipse?

And as I said earlier, you can't credit the Tracker II with Seeker II features. If I didn't have so many models, the Eclipse + SeekerII would be a better radio setup for my use than the TrackerII. And I know several guys who are using this setup, and doing quite well with it. So you can't just rule it out.

Anyway, the point of the thread was originionally about the manual. I was hoping the manual would be updated on occasion to reflect more of the new radio. I'll be really disappointed if the T3 is just a T2 with a different case, more of the same limited mixes, and alpha naming. That would really suck. I don't think that will be the case, and I'm hoping for confirmation on that. So far, that confirmation hasn't happened.

RC-Captain

Then don't buy it !

hebertjj

The Futaba 9ZAS/9Z WC2 w/TK-FSS & R319DPS receiver gives you synth TX and RX with a 15 model memory and all for just $1180 ! Yes, it looks like the Tracker's gonna be a bargain and stretch the features envelope. Will everyone get everything they want? Probably not. Will 80% of the people get everything they want? Maybe. This has been an interesting thread and may have opened some eyes at Polks to help development.