moses

I’m building one of these 3D Freedom kits. It appears a few other people are building one as well. Just thought I would post a message on my progress.

Everything fits very nicely so far. The wood seems like it is really nice quality as well. The tail feathers are all done (they just need the edges sanded and the hinging done). Both wings and the ailerons are done. The fuse is getting there, just need the complete the sheeting in the canopy area, glue in the landing gear block and few other minor tasks.

I weighed everything and it looks like the plane will weigh 9 lbs with a Saito 120. Everything seems pretty much on target. I did my best to factor in everything including the bones, electronics (servos, receiver, battery), landing gear, fuel tank, engine, engine mount, spinner, prop and covering.

That would put the wing loading at about 18.5 oz/sqft. This seems pretty good for a larger fun fly - it's just not quite as light as the typical profile plane.

I will probably use 4-40 threaded rod for all pushrods aside from the throttle (that will probably be a 2-56 rod). It seems like the pushrods are so short, the 4-40 threaded rod should not add too much weight.

A little more work on the fuse and I can get things hinged, test fit the electronics and control horns and check the balance. Then it’s just a matter of finish sanding and covering. Oh - I still have to shape the tail transition block (step 39) - been putting that off.

I installed the wing joiner into the fuse yesterday and installed the wings. The joint between the wings and the fuse looks really good - nice and tight. In fact everything feels nice and solid. When I first saw the kit, I was not sure I liked the plywood wing joiner (as opposed to a tube arrangement). The kit just looked too good - I just had to have it.

I did an initial check on the wing incidence (I did not install the wing dowels - oops). I set the incidence meter for 0 degrees at the wing root. Each wing was measuring 0 degrees identically at the root. At the wing tips I was seeing about 2 - 2.5 degrees washout (due to the building jig - steps 54-55). I’m not sure that the two wings are identical but they seem to be within 0.5 degrees - not too bad. I will have to check again with the wing dowels.

It looks like I will need to make a slight adjustment on the horizontal stabilizer to get 0 degrees with respect to the wings - but not much.

So far, I’m planning on using Robart hinge points. I never used these before. I added some small balsa blocks on the trailing edge of the wing and the leading edge of the ailerons - for extra grip. I did a test using some of the solid 1/4” balsa and I could not get the hinge point out without smashing the balsa. Honestly, I have been putting off the hinging. I have used other pin hinges before and it was not easy to get things lined up. The 3D Freedom uses five hinges on each aileron as I recall - it would be nice if they lined up.

The kit instructions are quite good. They take you through the process of building all of the parts quite nicely. I have assembled and repaired a few ARF’s but this is my first kit. It was perhaps an ambitions undertaking but so far everything is going well. I will have to work out the remaining details - glue in tail feathers - then cover or vice versa. I also need to work out the details of getting the engine mount properly positioned on the firewall.

At the rate I am going, I’m still a few weeks away from the maiden flight.

Moses

moses

The tail feathers are not glued in yet.

moses

Another shot with the wings off.

moses

Here is a shot with the wings on.

moses

Left wing - fuse joint.

moses

Right wing - fuse joint.

grazzhopper

Looks very interesting...I'd like to hear your comments throughout the process, and your flying experiences with it. If it's a good'un, it'll follow the SE onto the table. Seems many were going to purchase it, but haven't heard many flying results yet...

da king

My Feedback: (5)

Ya let us know how every thing turns out. I have an SE so Im wondering if that flys as good. It looks like it would be better for 3d. THX

cu. in.

I am reading the instructions on mine and getting ready to build. It would be helpful to me to see the component weights posted if possible. By component weights, I mean the vert. fin + rudder, the stab. + elev., the fuse., left wing, and right wing (both with hinged ailerons). Weights would include hinges, sanded, but no covering other than a small amount around hinge line.

Not everybody has a gram scale, so this isn't possible for some.

I have a gram scale and will post as components are completed.

Bruce

cu. in.

I made a building copy of my plans at Kinko's, so I am ready to start the building process. I will be using Elmer's "Professional Strength" interior glue and 30 min. epoxy.

This morning I weighed the aluminum landing gear. 216.8 gm. divided by 28.35 equals 7.7 oz. This gear is nicely made but there would be a substantial weight savings with a carbon fibre gear. I wish kit mfgrs. would offer an additional cost CF gear option with their kits. AKM?

One more thing. I would like to place the fuel tank at the CG and use a pumped engine. The wing spar is near the CG and deep, 2.2", leaving 1.5 inches below and 1.1 above under the hatch base. I am going to look at flat tanks or a double 8-10 oz. tank option here unless somebody has solved this one.

Bruce

moses

Cu. in., you will enjoy building the plane. Everything fits very nicely. I used a small postal scale to weigh the different parts. I do not have a gram scale.

Some weight savings could easily be had in several areas. I’m using a Saito FA-120. An O.S. 91 FX weighs 4.6 oz less. I’m using the Dubro 688 Motor Mount - there are probably lighter mounts out there. Lighter landing gear would also be nice.

Not much progress this week. The engine came in the mail. The "Saito modified" Tru-Turn spinner came in last week. I still need to test fit the prop and nut. This is truly pain in the neck on Saito engines. I have to ream the prop from 1/4 inch to 10mm. I then have to determine which Tru-Trun spinner adapter to use. There are two different types that could be used. I have both types so I can test fit them. Depending on which spinner adapter fits best, I may need to drill a 1/2 inch counterbore into the prop. I have the tool - it's just a pain in the neck.

I carved one of the tail transition blocks. I will carve the second one this weekend. I will probably do some work on the cowl area as well.

I checked the wing incidence again - with the wing dowels installed. I am still seeing about 2 - 2.5 degrees washout as expected. The two wings are definitely not identical - they are within 0.5 degrees. Diagonal measurements from the wing tips to the tail appear effectively identical. My current feeling is that I should not mess with the wings to see if I can get the twist to be identical. I can tell you that the wing panels are quite rigid - twisting them at this stage could be tough.

I still need to decide on the control horns. I got some MK control horns but I’m not sure if I want to use them. They are beautifully made, but they really do not allow the pivot point to be located above the hinge line. At best, the pivot point would be behind the hinge line a bit. I’m not sure that I’m comfortable with that. I guess I could add some differential in my radio.

Have fun,
Moses

cu. in.

Hi Moses,

It looks like we're all looking at various options with this plane. It's not like it's all "written in stone", if you know what I mean.

Thanks for the weight tips. I'll look into these areas. I think you did pretty well if the wings are only out by .5 degree. You may be able to pull that out with twisting the wing and heating the covering.

I haven't gotten to the hardware stage yet. And by the way, your pictures are encouraging, thanks. At some point I will have to buy a good digital camera. I have so much going right now that I can't even think about a new learning curve.

I spent some time looking at tank options this week. Two 8 oz. tanks will fit just fine in front of and in back of the wing spar. The Sullivan Slant Oval 8 oz. tank, SO-8, saves some room if placed on the floor in back of the pass-thru wing spar. Even if it sits on 1/2" of rubber foam, it isn't very tall at 1.55 " and leaves over 2.7" above for equipment if necessary. A standard Sullivan Slant Style 8 oz. tank, SS-8, easily fits in front of the spar leaving the front tank compartment mostly empty.

Sullivan's Web site is:

http://www.sullivanproducts.com/HomePageContent.htm

Positives for the CG tank location are primarily the ability to use a pumped 2 or 4 stroke engine to lessen the CG shift. Either OEM (OS, YS) or after market pumps like Perry or Cline on unpumped engines are options.

Negatives include added weight and cost for the second tank and plumbing. The weight of the SO-8 is 65.4 gm., the SS-8 is 56.0 gm., and the SS-16 is 71.8 gm. (all tanks weighed with fittings). Thus, the weight increase for two 8 oz. tanks is 49.6 gm. or 1.75 oz. Plumbing to connect the two tanks would be a single line from the rear tank to the front tank for a tandem setup, and maybe a pressure line from the engine to the rear tank. Rear tank would empty first. If we add another .25 oz. for the additional lines, then we have 2.0 oz. for the weight increase over a single 16 oz. tank. Added cost is probably under $5.00.

We were down at the Jersey shore last fall. Had a great time fishing for Blues and Tuna 26 miles out.

Keep building.

Bruce

moses

Quick update … both tail transition blocks are pretty much done. Just some fine tuning needed. I thought about putting the fuel tank on the CG. I just went with the standard Sullivan 16oz tank for now. I also found my notes on the various weights – from the postal scale. Remember these are a bit rough as the postal scale is not all that accurate:

Bones ~ 3lbs 4oz (not including canopy)
Fuel Tank ~ 3oz
Receiver + Battery ~ 6oz
Dubro Engine Mount – 6oz
Tru Turn Spinner – 4 oz
APC 15x8 prop ~ 4 oz
Landing gear (with axles and wheels) ~ 11 oz
Saito 120 ~ 29 oz
Servos ~ 12.7 oz
Rough Total ~ 8lbs 4oz

The covering (Ultracote) supposedly weighs 0.2457 Ounces / Sq. Ft. – so 3 full rolls of covering would weigh less than 9 ounces. In reality, the covering will probably add about 6 oz. That leaves about 6 ounces for incidentals (e.g., prop, control horns, push rods, servo extensions, switch harness, fuel line, mounting hardware…). Perhaps 9 lbs is a tad optimistic.

Moses

cu. in.

I got involved with the Twins-Oakland game yesterday and got no building done. I was better tonight, and started cutting out parts and organizing things. I noticed that the laser cut 1/4" balsa parts have an edge taper due to the typical laser over-burning on the top wood sheet surface. This taper creates a wider than normal glue joint width if parts from the same sheet are glued together. There is an opportunity to save some weight on adhesives if one of two parts to be glued is flipped over before butt gluing so that the tapers match.

I sent an e-mail to "Stan's Fiber Tech" to obtain price and weight for a replacement CF landing gear. Will report back when I know something.

Bruce

moses

Another quick update. Not too much done in the last few days. I finished the sheeting around the canopy area. I somehow lost this last piece of laser cut sheeting supplied with the kit - oops. I made another piece from some 3/32 scrap - it came out fine. I’m going to paint the canopy black from the inside - no cockpit detailing on this plane. I test fit the canopy and it fits - albeit with some coaxing. I have decided to use some small screws - as well as canopy glue to attach the canopy. This seems like the best bet for getting the thing on there nice and straight.

I like the idea of alternating the cut sides for gluing up the control surfaces - I wish I had though of that. I’m also getting better at gluing up the sheeting and balsa blocks that make up the curved top surface of the fuse. I’m going to cover the hatch shortly - just to see how it looks. If I ever build another one of these kits - things will come out a lot better.

If I were to build another plane - I might be inclined to switch the left and right fuse sides. My plane will have two servos in the tail on the right side. This matches the pictures in the manual. But …from a lateral balance point of view - shouldn’t the two servos go on the left side and the single servo go on the right - since the right side will probably be heavier due to the muffler - oh well.

I would also consider building the “optional” full length hatch on the next one. I did not do this - but in retrospect - I think it might actually make things simpler.

Next up …glue in the landing gear block, do some fuel proofing around the fire wall and tank area.

Moses

moses

I just thought I would post a tip on forming the curved top surface of the fuse and/or hatch. For example, the instructions say to install the formers on the hatch base, then install the hatch sides. Then you are supposed to install the sheeting over the formers - between the hatch sides. This is difficult because you must angle the edges of the sheeting to match the hatch sides. I did it - but I needed some filler to clean things up.

To sheet the hatch, I would do the following. Install the formers on the hatch base:

moses

Then I would lay some masking tape strips down (in place of the hatch sides). I would then install the sheeting with the edges overhanging. The masking tape will protect the hatch base - because you are going to use your sanding bar to trim the sides of the sheeting.

moses

Here is a top view of the position of the masking tape - in place of the hatch sides.

moses

Now use the sanding bar to trim the edges of the sheeting - the angle will perfectly meet the balsa hatch sides.

moses

With both sides of the sheeting sanded - remove the masking tape - glue in the hatch sides - perfect fit every time.

moses

Now to get the round shape - remove the excess balsa from the sides and shape to follow the contour of the sheeting. It really is easier than it looks.

Moses

Kevins_RC

My Feedback: (1)

Earlier, you posted that you wish you had CF landing gear for your aircraft. I might be able to help you out. Check-out the CF landing Gear that I developed for the Ecstasy at:
http://www.hsrcm.com/ecstasy.htm
If you are interested, let me know the width of the fuse and anticipated weight of the aircraft. If it compares to the Ecstasy, I can give you the dimensions and pricing. You can contact me directly at:
[email protected]

Kevin

visioneer_one

My Feedback: (506)

I also weighed mine. 7.6 oz. and very solid.

I spent a little time looking at the CF gear offered by Moose Carbon Fiber, Graphtech and TNT Landing Gear. The closest match (so far) is Moose's H9 Edge 540 gear which would have to be cut in half in order to fit the fuse.

I would love to find a set of bowed CF gear that will fit this bird!

moses

I did some checking on the landing gear issue. The landing gear that comes with the 3D Freedom is SIG part number SIGRPBA265 – this is the aluminum landing gear from the SIG Four Star 120 (cost = $18.49). This explains why the gear is so sturdy – the Four Star 120 is a slightly larger plane – weighing in at 10.5 to 12 pounds (as opposed to 8.8 – 9.2 lbs for the 3D Freedom).

The landing gear dimensions are as follows – see the diagram below:

Fuse = 4.375"
Wheel Width = 19.5"
Height = 5.5"
Profile = 2" x 1"
Weight ~ 7 - 7.5 oz

TNT Landing Gear (tntlandinggear.com) sells some tall composite gear for the Four Star 120 (cost = $28.00). Here are the specs for the TNT landing gear:

Part No. CLG-134 - Sig 4 Star 120
Fuse = 4"
Wheel Width =19.5"
Height = 7.25"
Profile 2" x 1.25"
Weight = 6.38 oz

Unfortunately, the TNT gear will not save much weight. However , you would have room to swing like a 20” diameter prop :stupid: . Perhaps if we could get composite gear in the 5.5” height, there would be some weight savings.

Moses

cu. in.

I spoke with Stan during my lunch hour today. He does not make a replacement gear suitable for the 3DF. The closest gear size he has is a gear for a Carden 35% Extra, but it weighs 9 oz. The reason it is so heavy is because this particular gear has to support a 25 lb. plane.

So far, no luck. I'll e-mail Kevin and see if he can bail us out.

Bruce