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Heckler 3D

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Old 03-27-2004, 01:52 PM
  #1  
Ed_Moorman
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Default Heckler 3D

I was placing a small order with Tower the other night and checked the new items are and they had a Heckler listed. It was only $115 and I had just received my R/C Report check for my last column so I said to myself, "What the heck, let's get it."

It came in Thursday afternoon and I popped the box open for a look before going to a night time class I teach. Nice covering. Sturdy, but light. The ribs are 1/8 balsa. The bulkheads and servo mounts are 1/4 ply. One-piece wing. Normal hardware. There was no instruction book (good thing this wasn't a real kit review), but it looked easy to build so I thought I might be able to fly it Saturday. The only item that needs 30-minute epoxy, and I guess you could use CA, is the stab so I did it after class Thursday night. Friday I started in seriously and by 10PM I was ready to go. GMS .47 engine, 11.5-4 APC prop, JR digitals in the wings, older JR coreless for rudder and elevator, Hitech HS-81MG on throttle, 720 mil NiMH battery. Weight came out 4# 4.5 ounces, not too light, but not too bad. You can see in the photos that the Heckler is a box with a thick, symmetrical airfoil wing on top. Big controls. You can also see that I haven't put the decals on yet.

Items of note: Comes with a cardboard tube in the wing for servo leads with the string through it for pulling the lead. The engine will only go upright, that is, the motor mounts aren't square so you can't mount them for side mounting. This puts the carb above the tank so the engine tends to lean out excessively during flight. The motor mount spacing is set for a .32 or something small. A .46 won't fit until you take a Dremel sandng drum to the inside corners. I replaced the aileron pushrods with 4-40s. I also replaced the clevices with Sullivan 2mm locking clevices. You may not have known that both Sullivan and DuBro make the 2mm size to fit ARF pushrods.

This morning (Saturday) just as I was lifting off, I remember thinking that I hadn't balanced the plane. It flew well so I guess the balance was in the ball park. Nice roll rate, flies sort of like a trainer. Doesn't knife like a profile, of course. Flat spins are so-so. Could not get a climb. Maybe I should check the balance and move it back some. Hard to tell top from bottom. It really needs something on the bottom because I lost orientation a couple of times for just a second. Does a nice harrier. There was a pretty good wind and I was hanging it into the wind. Not a real prop hang, but a good steep angle with a hang or a straight down descent. Easy to control the elevator. I had spoilers coupled to the elevator and I could hold full up and play the power for a descent. With spoilers coupled to throttle, I could make a super steep landing approach, like maybe 75 degrees. All the landings, normal landings, dead sticks (the GMS blew a glow plug) and the spoiler landings were float downs, nice and easy.

Overall, good flying airplane. Not perfect, but does some things well. Great plane for after a Stick or a first 3D plane.
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Old 03-28-2004, 04:14 PM
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tetherite
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

Hi Ed;
I just got mine last week and have it about ready to install the equipment. I've got a Saito 40 I'm gonna try for starters and see how it does with an 11 X 4 wood prop.
May also substitute my gear the for aluminum gear and get a wider stance (he he). Wish they had put some diagonal bracing in the control surfaces. Looks like it may have some flutter problems if the speed is not held down.
Other than that - looks good!
Ray
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Old 03-28-2004, 05:44 PM
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

Ray,

I gave it a work out today. It's a little nose heavy so the flat spins weren't much. It does a really nice harrier and elevator into the wind with spoilers. I am using a GMS .47 with an APC 11.5-4 and didn't notice any hint ot flutter. The ailerons aren't as wide as many planes.

Saturday night I put the decals on (photo) and some 2-56 bracing rods on the underside of the stab. It could use the tail weight and there isn't much area back there to glue to.

Earlier this afternoon, after flying, I turned the engine on its side. Replaced the stock mount with a Great Planes adjustable mount. The tank is pretty low with the engine upright. The side mount meant I couldn't use the stock narrow gear so I replaced it with the KrazyLegs gear you said you used on your Magic. I slid it slightly to one side and it cleared the muffler. Photo.

I also moved the rudder servo to the rear in front of the fin.
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Old 03-28-2004, 05:51 PM
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

Here is the photo of the rudder servo. I used a Hitech 5245 (I think) mini-digital.

One more thing. The plane looks great in the air with the sun shining through the gold Ultracote, but, it is really, really hard to tell up from down in a flash like you need to sometines with a fun fly plane. I had to put something on the bottom. I found some fluorescent green Ultracote, borrowed a salad plate from the kitches and cut 4 circles. I ironed these on the bottom of the wing. Now you can tell the bottom. I like Ultracote for this since it is white on the back side.
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Old 03-28-2004, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

Glad to hear the planes are finally in stock. I'm also not a fan of the production covering scheme (the prototype I have flown that you see in the Wingtote vids is much better), but once you get the CG just right the plane is a blast to fly. We flew the prototype at some pretty high speeds with no flutter problems.
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Old 03-29-2004, 11:01 AM
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

Hi Ed!
Glad to see some production models getting in the air. Mine is still in the box but Ryan and I have flown the heck out of the pre-production one!

TigerShark .52, will fly full throttle with no flutter, I have beat on it.

On water vid

Land vid 1

Land vid 2

In these you will see knife edge, flat spins, ect... plane is a blast
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Old 03-29-2004, 01:28 PM
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Ed_Moorman
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

I agree, it's a fun plane to fly. I have not been able to get a good flat spin, either upright or inverted, like I can with my profiles. I may have the CG to far forward. As I mentioned, I got the plane Thursday night just before I have to go teach a class. I did get the stab glued on with 30-minute that evening. The rest I did Friday afternoon & night and flew it Saturday. I didn't even check the CG, just dropped everything in and flew. By the way, my kit didn't have any instructions and there was no problem building the plane. There's not much to it, actually.

If the rudder servo in the rear doesn't help, I may move the battery back in the rear fuselage. I just hate to add tail weight.

I am using digital servos and all the throw I can get so that's not the problem. The GMS .47 is not a heavy engine, either. My Mag .52 and OS AX are a tenth or 2 heavier.

I plan to run a mini-review in my column in R/C Report. It'll probably be in the July issue (3-month lead time). The reviews in my column are where I buy the plane, but I also mod it the way I like it. If R/C Report sends me the plane, I build it stock. I have been getting into sea planes lately and I am thinking about getting a second one and putting it on floats.

With spoilers out, it does a really sweet elevator. The Taco and the Heckler are my 2 best elevator planes. The Heckler will drop with the nose about 60 degrees up. I have 45 degrees or so of spoiler and lots of up elevator. With spoilers coupled to throttle, it will drop to a landing at an alarming rate. We had a 10mph wind and I was coming down so fast I even got worried. The first time, when I was about 10 feet up and sinking so quickly is worried me, I was thinking, "Uh oh, Ed, you may have over done it this time." I came in with full up elevator and it settled to a firm, but safe landing and touch and go. Fun plane. Cheap. Tower has them for $115.
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Old 03-29-2004, 06:00 PM
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

i have seen the heckler flyfalcons and johnhvh have flown it flat spins and knife edges great. you jsut gotta get your cg placement correct.
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Old 03-29-2004, 09:41 PM
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

Hi Ed, I have a FF Taco as well, great plane too!! Id maybe move your CG back farther, if you want I can check mine and measure it if you like. My battery is behind the servo's in the back of the wing saddle area.
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Old 03-30-2004, 09:41 AM
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

I am planning on moving the battery, anyway, but go ahead and let me have your CG. I normally fly with mine pretty far back, but I have only flown the Heckler 1 weekend so I haven't had a chance to play with it. I normally like it just where it doesn't oscillate. I have flown planes with the CG way back, but you have to keep your eyes on them every second or they'll do something crazy.

It doesn't need much engine so I was thinking about borrowing someone's LA .46 or a .32, both of which would knock 3-4 ounces off the nose. I guess I need to cut and try on this one, then get a second and do it the way I like it from the get-go. It is a good flying plane or I wouldn't be messing with it.
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Old 04-21-2004, 09:34 PM
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tknobby
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

I too am about ready to put my Heckler 3D on it's maiden voyage.

I have modified it a bit:

Installed my trusty MVVS 40; mounted the engine slightly pitched below horizontal to the right. The mounts were not quite wide enough for the MVVS 40. Removed the blind nuts, filled 3 of the 4 holes, drilled new holes and re-fit the blind nuts. One hole did remain in the same location.

Mounted both the elevator and rudder servos in the tail.

Swapped the aluminum landing gear for some CF gear from Graph Tech.

This is a really nice quality ARF. It went together very well. I did drill out the wing holddown hole in the wing to a slightly larger size. The wing was not perfectly square to the fuse. Shifted the wing over till the measurments from wingtip trailing edge to end of fuse were equal. I added a piece of 1/16 ply to the wing for the holddown bolt to press against. The wing is now square to the fuse.

Weight: 4 lb 6 oz ready to fly.

I'll try to get some pics ready.

If the Wx is good this Saturday I'll be flying.

Tom...
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Old 04-21-2004, 09:43 PM
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

I have not gotten a CG point off mine yet, sorry...

But did get to fly a production one the other day with a OS.46Fx on it, flew awesome! I think it was a tad nose heavy by how it felt, but it did knife edge and good power for hovering, of course Harriers were great and was fun.
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Old 04-29-2004, 08:55 PM
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tknobby
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

My Heckler 3D is ready for it's maiden flight. Hope the WX will co-operate this weekend.

1) Here is my elev & rudder servo photo...

2) Here is a shot of my MVVS 40.
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Old 04-30-2004, 08:17 AM
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Ed_Moorman
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

I recommend you add at least weed eater line to the tail. I broke the fin off mine doing a violent blender. I hear a crack when I went to inverted snap comtrols after a good vertical dive. I went flat anyway. Hey, if it's going to die, may as well be spectacular. I finally got it out of the inverted flat spin at about 20 feet in a skid and was able to land on the runway. The only thing holding the fin besides a little covering was the tail wheel wire and my rudder pull-pulls.

I figured I needed the tail weight so I used 2-56 rods after gluing the fin back on. I admit I am using digital servos and at least 50 degrees of rudder travel so I was putting some force on the fin when I popped full control in the dive.

Despite the poor knife edge-it's high wing so it rolls out-I like this plane. Does great elevator landings with full elevator and 75%spoiler while controlling descent with throttle.

I might have to buy a second one and put it on floats. Did you see the video of it on the water and the grass take off?
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Old 04-30-2004, 08:19 AM
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Ed_Moorman
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

tknobby, I see you angled your engine down slightly. Was this so the muffler would clear the gear?

Which Graph Tech gear did you use? The 40 fun fly?
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Old 04-30-2004, 09:42 AM
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tknobby
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

Ed,

Do you have a picture of the fin repair & strenghenting? I thought about adding flying wires between the fin and horizontal stab on both the upper and lower to create a boxed affair.

Yes, I did rotate the 40 to allow the mini-pipe to exit under the fuse. I do this on a lot of my airplanes.

I think the Graph Tech gear Mike send me was for the Flip, if I recall.

Bad wx this weekend. I'll add the flying wires this next week.

Tom...

[]
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Old 04-30-2004, 10:46 AM
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

Here is my float flying vid guys.

Heckler on Floats


I flew a production one the other day with a OS46FX, it would knife edge no problem, as does my pre production one.
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Old 04-30-2004, 11:51 AM
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Ed_Moorman
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

I would just use weedeater line if I didn't want some more tail weight. I already had the lower braces for the stab because it's just glued on top and I figured it would get bumped going in and out of the garage and would be weakened.

When I did the top ones, the wire pieces I found were shorter so I have 2 attachment points, not the best looking arrangement, but I'll be flying this weekend.

The ends are metal clevices with the pin side snapped off and the hole driller out for a 2-56. I ran out of 2-56 nuts so for the top ones I used a half of a control horn backing plate and some of those screws. I have switched to all bolt-on links or clevices with the locking clip like the Sullivan or DuBro heavy plastic so I have several of the older, plain metal ones available.

I'm running a GMS and APC 11.5-4.
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Old 04-30-2004, 08:57 PM
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

Ed,

I see you didn't use the triangle stock on the underside of the horizontal stab for stab mount strengthening. Did your plane come with the tri stock and small pieces of covering? Mine did but I think I'll still add the wires. Your wires look good; simple and functional.

Looks like we will have clearing skys on Sunday. I'll probably fly my Morris the Knife and next week add the wires to the Heckler. I'll let you know when I fly it.

Tom...
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Old 05-01-2004, 12:38 PM
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

Actually, mine did not come with instructions-they must have been left out of the box-so I did not use the tri stock. And the fin broke off, not the stab, during a blender.

As for knife edge, the plane certainly has enough side area to hold knife edge, but, in my opinion, it is a gross misstatement to say it knife edges well. As a high wing plane it rolls severely with rudder and there is also some pitch coupling. You can be flying straight and level and put in rudder and the plane will do a nice barrel roll. I demonstrated this a couple of times at my field to friends. Their Sticks do the same thing, so it is no big deal, unless the plane is said to do knife edge WELL. I am able to hold the opposite controls to knife edge and I can also mix it out, but I doubt if any of the regular guys at my field would be able to.

I do like the plane even with its limitations and I fly mine regularly every weekend. It is good at 3D maneuvers, especially the elevator where it excells at harier or elevator landings. You can descend at a 60-70 degree angle holding full up with spoilers while controlling descent rate with clicks of power.
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Old 05-07-2004, 08:58 PM
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

TKnobby,
May you please post a picture of the inside of your airplane. I mounted my OS 46FX as you did to make way for a tuned pipe, but I am having a heck of a time figuring out how to make the throttle linkage from the carb to the servo around the gas tank.

Thank you and Ed for all your posts, it really helped me alot. I am doing all your reccommended mods. [8D]
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Old 05-09-2004, 09:17 PM
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tknobby
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

dalbert02,

I have a hard time trying to get my photos the allowable size. I am using Mandrake Linux and the photo editing program GIMP I have yet to master. I haven't figured out how to change the image size. So a photo might be slow in coming. I will try to describe What I did to get this engine position to work.

Basically I rotated the engine until I had the header and pipe between the landing gear legs while still having the throttle lever positioned over the firewall. I then mounted the motor mount and engine and made a mark at the position where the throttle cable would exit the firewall and meet up with the lever. I drilled a 1/8" hole at this point. Then on the inside I visualized a line from this hole in the firewall to the servo output arm and made a mark on the former just next to the fuse side. The plastic sleeve for the throttle cable should make a smooth arc from the hole in the former to the hole in the firewall; no jerky angles or the throttle will not be smooth. I drilled a 1/8" hole in the former. The sleeve material should run just next to the fuse side from former to firewall. This allows normal tank placement that will not interfere with the throttle.

I also added a small balsa block to support the cable sleeve between the former and the servo.

BTW, I like to use the Sullivan gold-n-rod cables for all my throttle set-ups.

Does this make sense dalbert02? If you still need a photo let me know. I'll try to get one for you.

Tom...
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Old 05-10-2004, 12:51 AM
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Ed_Moorman
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

Here's what I like about the KrazyLegs gear, they flex and come right back. My buddy caught me during a hard, elevator landing where I didn't get the power right and sat it down a little firm. Looks like a wounded duck. You can see the spoiler I was using. The prop on the GMS .47 is an APC 11.5-4.
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Old 05-10-2004, 09:13 AM
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

Hi Tknobby,
Yes, if you could be so kind as to send a photo, that would be great. I understand what you are saying but I can't quite visualize the routing path you took for the cable. No matter how I route my cable, I end up with some binding. You can email it to me in it's large format to dnalbert(AT)bellsouth(DOT)net. Thank you very much!


Ed,

That gear looks great! Where do you get it?
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Old 05-10-2004, 10:09 AM
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Ed_Moorman
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Default RE: Heckler 3D

The KrazyLegs gear is from Tetherite Plastics. They are more widely known for their popular profile plane gear. A buddy has an OMP Yak and it came with KrazyLegs gear in the kit. I can tell you they won't break and they won't take a set.

Ray Randolph is the owner. He is at tetherite@earthlink.net
(281) 488-3993
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