James Goss

For the last few weeks I have been inactive in my shop because we are in another phase of our home improvement project. I was able to sneak down to my shop last Thursday for a few hours, I told my wife I would be in the attic pulling some wire if she needed me. I got caught though because she didn’t hear the normal bumping noise and came looking for me. Before she found me I had enough time to get a project underway. I have been thinking about a new design, a pipe plane, ever since I built the Postage Stamp Mailbox. I haven’t spent any more time on the mailbox, but I am sure it will fly well when balanced. For the pipe plane I wanted to use a pipe of some type for the wing, I just didn’t know what to use. A couple of weeks back a nice fellow by the name of Chris Watkins came over to visit my shop and to pick up a Stamp plane, Chris is from Georgia. While he was here Chris showed me a small paper airplane that his son had been flying. It was round and would fly very well in a straight line of flight. I was amazed at how well it flew and I visualized using a pipe, in the shape of this paper plane for my project. If this design actually functions in the air I will give credit to Chris for the idea. You can see the little paper plane in the picture.

The five-gallon bucket is a discarded detergent bucket my wife gave me. It is white plastic and has less weight than the black buckets such as the ones that driveway sealer comes in. It also weighs less than sheetrock mud buckets, but they will probably work fine also. The pipe plane is very fast to build and I can see many advantages for this design, assuming it will fly. The durability will be even better than the Stamp/PBF planes. No spine will be needed because the round forward section of the wing supports itself. With the upper part of the pipe this plane is something like a biplane. In the picture the engine rails have not been cut to length, this is how I will balance the pipe.

The diameter of the bucket is 11-inches, this gives about 35-inches for the circumference. With elevons the overall length of the plane is 16-inches. It is kind of short and could probably use more tail moment. It has about as much wing area as my Stamps have, but some of that is vertical. For its first flight it will have a vertical fin only and not a rudder. If it does get off the ground and actually behaves like an airplane I will add a rudder. I am going to use a Magnum .28 engine and the plane will weigh about 2 lbs 6 oz. I will probably have it ready to test this weekend if I can get some free time to install the radio gear. If you have an idea for a name for this plane please let me know. So far it is a pipe plane, a bucket plane, or sky bucket.

James Goss

Here is a picture of the paper plane on the engine rails.

shmo46

What a wild looking plane!

Can't wait to hear how it flys.

Flipper

My Feedback: (3)

I hope it flies, as much fun as I have had with people laughing at the stamp or PB I need one of these!

Dave McDonald

My Feedback: (19)

James,
That thing looks wild! When (not if) you get it to fly, make sure you get some inflight photos.....or better yet, video.

As soon as I saw your pipe plane, for some reason it reminded me of the front peep sight on one of my Winchester rifles. I'm not suggesting that as a name......just an observation.

AnthonyH

My Feedback: (16)

That looks great! You could call it Bucket-O-Fun...Bucket-O-Laughs or Kick the Bucket if the test flight does not work out. :disappoin

C_Watkins

My Feedback: (10)

LOL!

I hadn't even considered trying to use a bucket... that's usin the old noodle
(I had thought to use coroplast, flutes "inline", and roll one about 18-20" dia., 24" long w/elevons)
If it's a pretty straight scale-up of the paper version, it should work, though.
It does seem a bit short, and certainly not over-endowed in the "effective wingspan" department.
I'd expect a fairly pitch-sensitive, high-speed result, on this one.
I figure finding the proper CG will probably be the fun part of the whole task.
Good luck with it, James! If anybody can get it to fly, I know you can


Thanks for the kind words... AND the Postage Stamp, by the way.
Still haven't had time to get her airborne, but I'm "this close" now. (Balance; mount engine/wheels)
Maybe tomorrow afternoon I can see what all this PS/PBF business is all about
Gotta remember to stop by the LHS and pickup a few props before heading out.

Flypaper 2

Jim" You might try leaving the top full length. Like adding a bunch of wing area. Good luck!

Tattoo

Here's something similar that did succesfully fly...gosh darn it, I'm anxious to here if the bucket flies!

http://www.rccombat.com/forum/topic....gns+%28SPAD%29

C_Watkins

My Feedback: (10)

That's pretty cool, too. I've seen those straw gliders, and figured
it'd make a good model someday, too. Didn't know it had already been done.

I thought about doing up some of the popular folded paper airplane
designs in coro, just to have some true "schoolyard fliers"
(Not that they'd be flyable in a schoolyard, but that they'd
resemble the paper planes you might seen flown in a schoolyard at recess)
My problem is that I never seem to be able to find the time for
things like this. Whenever I do have free time, I usually go flying

dusteater

im going to just cut the bottom of 2 pails off and glue them together than mount the engine in it so it will be like a vtol and have 4 flaps at the back like a plus each quarter moves individualy. mix it so that you have pitch front to back and pitch side to side and have them all turn the same way to make it roll.

ill let you know if i come up with anything, but winter is fast approaching/

C_Watkins

My Feedback: (10)

Sounds like a fun experiment, anyway
I found a plane on the net for FMS once, called "ubu" or something.
It looked like a barrel, and flew about like one, too
No VTOL stuff though... seemed more like a good 1/2A experiment.

Speaking of winter coming soon... another thing I had in mind to do,
if I had the time, was a flying Christmas tree, if it hasn't been done.
(And maybe anyway, even if it has)
The Coro would be perfect for this, and you could go so far as to add
all the decorations you wanted, I'd think. I figured it'd
be cool to make a four wire landing gear, and learn to VTOL

So many ideas, so little time/money/patience.

James Goss

Dave

You are right; it does look like a peep sight. Maybe I will be able to hit the center of the field with this plane.

AnthonyH

That is a good name for the plane, Bucket-O-Fun. Thanks!

Flypaper

I tried it with the top of the bucket intact, but it was very tail heavy. Removing the top section really cuts down on the overall weight. If this version doesn’t fly I will try more wing area.

C Watkins

I know what you mean about not having time to pursue the hobby. At one time when I was in the peak of the hobby I was working a fulltime job, a night job from five pm to ten pm. and taking 30 hours of college credit. Some of those classes were 150 miles from my house. The only planes I built then was in my dreams. Being retired now I can look back and wonder how I did it all because I still don’t have the amount of time I need for the hobby. Keep up the good work Chris.

Chris I tried the coroplast. For this diameter the coroplast tends to collapse in the corrugations. I discovered this when I was building the flying mailbox. Heating the coroplast helps, but it still doesn’t work well. I think we will come out better with the bucket. I have also thought about using something that will give a longer tail moment, maybe a plastic trash can or something along those lines.

Unstable

you need help.... lots and lots of help

keep up the good? work

James Goss

I was able to get the radio gear installed in the bucket today and I think I will get to test fly it tomorrow, Saturday morning. I decided to go ahead and install a rudder while I had it on the bench. It will be nice to be able to steer it down the field with a little control. I believe the rudder will be efficient in turning the plane on the ground. I don’t really know what to expect when the bucket clears the ground. Having such a short tail moment and close coupled elevons it will probably be very sensitive. I think I will have low rates set at about 50% of high rates and use that for takeoff. I have it balanced at 20% of the overall length of the bucket, 17 inches and not 16 like I said earlier. CG is at 3.4-inches from leading edge of wing. I will let you know how it behaved in the air for its first test flight.

Dave McDonald

My Feedback: (19)

James,
Good luck on your test flight of the Bucket-O-Fun! And don't forget to get some inflight photos!

James Goss

I made it to the field today with my Bucket-O-Fun. I didn’t get it in the air, but I did learn two things about it. First it tracks very well down the field and the rudder steers ok. Second, the CG needs to be moved to the rear about an inch. I thought I had it balanced at 3.4 inches, but it was 3-inches exactly. I am going to move it to 23% or 4-inches from leading edge. It just would not rotate off the ground. It came close a couple of times, but needed more speed. I may go ahead and change the engine from the .28 to a .36, but I will probably try it again with the .28 after I relocate the CG. I forgot to carry some lead weights to the field today and as usual nobody had any. I may get to try it again tomorrow if the weather holds. I didn’t figure it would fly the first go around anyway. It does look odd sprinting down the field and I also found out it tumbles well on the ground. Maybe it will do as well in the air.

Dave McDonald

My Feedback: (19)

Sorry to hear that the Flying Wind Tunnel didn't get airborne.....yet.

Hopefully, the CG change and more power will cure the problem. Good luck to you with this project! I wish I was there to see it!

C_Watkins

My Feedback: (10)

Yeah... nothing like watching flight experiments, whatever the result

Either we don't have any mad scientist types out here, or I just miss all the fun.

Guess I need to get off my duff and become one, myself.
(grunts... "More Power!")

Good luck with the next attempt, James!

James Goss

I decided to try it again today, Saturday 21, 2002, and see if I could get the bucket off the ground. This time I used my backyard test field, it is rather small with trees close by and with a bumpy runway. It takes me about 40 minutes to get to my regular flying field so this saved me a lot of time going back and forth for the tests. Using my local field was equal to three or four trips to the main field because I had to return to my shop several times. For today’s test I had installed a larger .36 TT engine and had moved the CG back to four inches. Wind was calm and it was about 4 pm with the sun to my back. The problem I had today was mainly tracking on the rough field. I knew if I got it in the air I would have to set it back down quick because of the small area.

On the first flight I could see that it did want to rotate this time. The .36 engine elevated the bucket with ease as long as I could keep it going straight until it gained the speed it needed, and that didn’t take long. It would lift off the ground and do a quick loop. After several tries to make sure I didn’t have too much elevator, I decided it was tail heavy. The CG at four inches was changed back to three inches. This was accomplished by moving the engine ½-inch forward and then installing a heave hub spinner nut. This was about the twelfth test flight and it tracked well down the field and rotated without looping. It gained altitude fast and was at 50-feet in no time, and was also approaching the tree line at the end of my field. It was flying smooth, but I throttled back and let it drop back to earth. It remained kind of flat as it came down. Out of about ten more tries I got it up two more times with hard landings. Even though it was difficult to get into the air, it did fly and this makes all the effort worth while. No pictures, I was alone. Knowing that it can fly, if everything is just right, I am going to make a few modifications and have another go.

It is so short in length it likes to tumble when it hits a bump on the ground. I would like to increase its overall length by about three of four inches and leave more of the bucket wall on top. This will capture more of the prop blast for thrust lift. No longer than it was in the air I could tell the orientation was going to be difficult to keep up with, larger will help here too. The bucket I used was not a full five gallons. I would like to find a larger one, maybe seven or eight gallons. I will be keeping my eyes open for something larger, if you know of anything that may substitute the bucket please let me know.