Balsageek

I am considering purchasing the Hangar 9 Pizazz to get some practice in 3-D flying. I just crashed my second Fazer and am looking for a change in airplanes. I know there were alot of complaints about the quality of workmanship on the Pizazz, but has anything improved? What about it's flight characteristics? Is it smooth and stable or is it hard to control? Does anyone have any modification suggestions? Do I need to beef anything up or use different pushrods? And last, the engine, I am looking at the Saito .72, any advice there?

PaulSwany

My Feedback: (45)

Didn't like the Fazer?? I've been flying one all season.... I love it... Hovering it... did about 3/4's of a torque roll... inverted flat spin.... knife edge spins... kewl plane!!! I've got a TT 46 on mine with a Tower 46 muffler and a 11.5x4 apc prop. It ROCKS!!

Anyway... I've heard good things about the pizzaz.... Likes a bigger engine... I've seen one with a Irvine 53... It was awesome...

If you're looking for an arf.... you might look at the Somethin' extra... the wing profile and tail feathers are almost identacle to the Fazer.

JPBIII

The Pizazz does like a bigger engine . I fly mine with a Satio 72 . Tons of power. It doesn't spin real good. I have not tried moving the CG back yet. I used a Dave Brown fiberglass pushrod for the elevator and pull - pull for the rudder. Also I Used 4/40 rods and hardware for the ailerons to prevent flutter. I have heard of some of the metal engine mounting plates cracking. My wing saddle fit was awful , but the wing incidence came out fine. Great flying plane !

warhwk

My Feedback: (3)

I should be able to test fly mine either tomorrow or the next day. I have mine set up the same as above except with an OS 61. I found the quality to be very good. In fact, the wing gap was so good I had a hard time sliding the wing into the fuse. Please do not confuse lightweight construction with poor quality. The only poor quality items were the hardware. The plane is built well, although very light. Throw away the hardware including the fuel tank. Someone (Tailbacker?) had a fuel tank rupture. I installed a 12 oz Sullivan and 4-40 for elevator and pull-pull on the rudder.

Balsageek

PaulSwany--- Regarding the Fazer...

It's not that I didn't like the fazer, in fact I am thinking about scratch building another one.. I just want a change in planes. I've flown two different fazers for the past year and a half. I've crashed both of them (well one exploded midair in a full throttle blender) and I want something new and hopefully a little more stable. That profile fuse doesn't make the aerobatics feel as solid as I would like.

djlyon

I like this plane and the quality of construction and design. I normally build kits or scratch. They cover their plane in transparent monokote which is an indication that they are proud of what they've done. I used every thing they had in the kit except I put pull-pull on the rudder, but doesn't every one? The wing saddle was too big. I used balsa strip to fill it before glueing. I don't like the motor mount and it can be a sourse of vibration problems, but it will accomodate any engine from .049 to 4.9 ci. i understand from more recent reports on these web sites that the wing saddle problem has been corrected although I didn't see it as a real problem. I set up controls per the instructions and found the low rate aileron to be too slow even with the CG back to 4 & 1/4 inches. I also had a wing with a slightly bowed trailing edge on one side. Check this and fix as required before glueing the ailerons on. This is a very smooth flying plane for a fun fly type but but a lttile twitchy for precise flying. It's very controlable from 0 to max speed and is good for building confidence. I didn't get any flutter even in full power dives.
I've flown it with a TT54fs , good but not quite enough for what I wanted. After about 40flights I put a YS63 in it. WWWEEEEE !!!!. Today I took the YS63 out for another project and put in a Saito 72. Tomorrow is first flight and I expect another WWWWEEEEE!!!

PaulSwany

My Feedback: (45)

Hey... I just bought one of these last night.... Looks pretty nice...

I tried fitting the wing and it seemed a little sloppy..... I might add a little balsa to fill in the gaps... I'm thinking of just ca'ing the wing in instead of epoxy.... but not if I can't fix the gaps.... What do you guys think?

I've got an Irvine 53 for this thing... Looks like a lot of fun...

JPBIII

My wing and saddle were not a good fit either, I put the fuse upside down in a craddle, installed wing so there was no gap for the top side of the wing, then used tri stock to glue the bottom of the wing in place . I used epoxy for this so I had plenty of time to make sure wing was alinged .

4 stroken ron

My Feedback: (29)

The first Pizazz I had also had a sloppy wing to fuse fit. The new one I just resently bought has a perfect fit. It seems to be something that was fixed in the latest run of kits.
4 4 4 4 stroken ron

djlyon

Mine had a gap of about 1/32 to 1/16 all the way round. I glued the wing in at the leading and trailing edge with epoxy. After it set I filled the gaps with strips of balsa then CAed it.
Made 3 flights with the Saito 72 today. Real good. Slightly less punch than the YS 63 but still a WWWEEEE with a little better low end throttle response. Because of the better throttle response hovering was easier. But then I may have done a better job with the linkage.

3dpilot

Just posted this question under arfs. Found the answer here. My wing is very sloppy all of 1/8 inch if not more. Guess this is common. OH Well. Probably better than if I would of done it. I would of had a one inch gap.

Sounds like the epoxy the leading and trailing edges, then ca in strips of balsa is the best way to go. Anybody have problems with doing that.

thanks

djlyon

3d
I've got about 70 flights on mine with 3 different engines and so far and the wing is holding fine. As a matter of fact the whole plane is doing fine inspite of the vibration caused by the way they mount the engine.

3dpilot

Ive heard about that. But could you cut the motor mount beams and put in a regular radial type mount in? I just looked at a buddies pizzaz and his wing fit much better than mine. He had a better Tiawaneez builder than I had

PaulSwany

My Feedback: (45)

I haven't heard of the motor mount problem..... could someone enlighten me?

Foamguy

Decent and stable sport flyer, but I'd pass on it for 3D type stuff as it will not do any of it. I've flown 5 or 6 different ones now with various engines. The Saito .72 is good on it for sure.
Quality control is spotty. Some models come out of the box fine, others have the already noted tank problem, broken wing parts, etc. I'd install 4-40 rods for sure. I've seen the aileron rods bend in a dive. Also seen one self destruct in a power dive with an FX .61.
It's not a bad plane, but I have never been able to get it to flatspin no matter what the throws were, where the CG was, inverted, flaperon/ele mix, etc... it hovers.... ok I guess... but I've flown better. Most guys I know were kinda disappointed in it.

Foamguy

djlyon

Paul
Some guys have report bad vibration and mounting plate failures. I haven't had any failures of any kind but the vibration is way to much with all 3 engines that I've used. The problem is likely the mounting method. They use plywood beam mounts as a base then they mount the engine to 2 aluminum plates that bolt to the plywood beams. this isn't a very stiff assembly at the vibration frequencies the engine produces.

3D
Yes I think you could cut the beam mounts and put a radial mount in. this would probable reduce the vibration a lot. As I recall though the fire wall was kind of thin but I don't remember for sure. If it's only an 1/8 inch or so you would need to double it. Another thing you could do is make two more metal plates and put them on the bottom of beam and bolt the engine all the way thru. Be sure to fill the gap between the two metal plates where the beam mounts are cut back with hardwood though. This will give a much stiffer mount. I was going to do this when I installed the Saito 72 but didn't because I was already having trouble trying to get the CG back to between 4&1/4 and 4&1/2 inches without adding tail weight. Instead I made new metal mounts out of slightly heavier gage aluminum. That didn't do it. It still vibrates too much.

Mine spins fine with only rudder and elevator, in either direction upright or inverted. It also does nice flat spins either upright or inverted. Once spinning flat I can pull the throttle back and it holds a nice pretty, slow flat spin. I haven't been able to get it to hold altidude or climb though. I have been able to get it to tumble and do cart wheels though. I'm not a 3D flyer or fun fly flyer (I'm a post-sticks-in the corners gyrations flyer), so I can't really judge, but from what I've seen of fun fly competition planes and real 3D planes, this plane is neither one. But it is a fun-to-fly plane.

Foamguy

djlyon,

What was your procedure for entering a flatspin with the Pizazz ? I have spent literally days with several different ones and haven't got a single flatspin out of it yet. I've tried everything I can think of.

How did you get it to tumble and cartwheel ?

If your like me, it'll be hard to describe.. I, like you just bang the sticks and can never remember how to tell someone else.

Foamguy

PaulSwany

My Feedback: (45)

Hey Foamguy,

What's that you're flying in the picture?

4 stroken ron

My Feedback: (29)

HEY FOAMGUY, LOOKOUT!!!!!!!! you are making a terrible approach there. You might end up in the drink. Better go around.
4 4 4 4 stroken ron

3dpilot

Thanks for the tip on the motor mount situation,

Foam guy, Just curious, how many planes have landed in the drink.?????

Foam guy, Most of my planes enter flat spins by first stalling the plane, then left rudder and left aileron and up elevator, then after a couple revs start to slowly feed in down elvator (slowly), then start to slowly give it right aileron. Once flat you can add throttle to speed up the spin. In other words you left hand stays in the bottom left corner and your right starts in the bottom left then slides strait up to the top left then slides to the top right. This is just one way, there are several ways and each plane needs to enter differently.

with my giants You can go from blender to inverted flat spin by just left aileron couple revs then instantly slaming in full down , full throttle and full left rudder, when done you have left top left and right hand at top right. This is very stressfull on the wings though.

djlyon

Foamguy

On the first couple of flights with mine I couldn't even get it to spin let alone flat spin.
I set up the control throws and expo exactly per the instructions except for the rudder. My radio doesn't have dual rates or expo on the rudder so I split the difference. The cg range called for was 3 1/4 to 3 3/4 in. I put it at 3 5/8. The plane flew very nice but was clearly nose heavy for this kind of plane. The low rate ailerons were to slow and the high rate ailerons nearly broke my neck even though I was standing on the ground.
Attempts to spin with rudder/elevator got spirals and with R/A/E got funny looking gyrations but not spins.

I moved the CG back to 4inches, increased low rate aileron throw, and increased the rudder throw to max per the instructions. Now it would spin upright in either direction but not inverted. But it had to be initiated without using aileron (in the direction of the rudder) or it just did the funny gyration. The plane still flew nose heavy.

I moved the CG back to 4 1/4 (I now have it close to 4 1/2 I think) and that got me good spins and flat spins. Again if I try to use the ailerons with the rudder to hurry the entry into the spin or speed up the spin the plane goes to "funny gyration".

It will now do upright left rudder flat spins and inverted right rudder flatspins but not the other two.
I stall the airplane level then feed in full elevator and full rudder. I think I'm a little ahead of the rudder with the elevator. As soon as rotation gets going I increase power and start feeding in opposit aileron. It goes to a flat spin with just a little aileron. Sometimes full aileron especially if applied to quick will kill the spin. Inverted is done all the same.
For the above and almost all my flying I have the ailerons on low rate and the elevator on high rate.
For the tumble I go vertical ,pull power back and when the airplane nearly stops I go to a fullpower inside left snap. About half way into the snap I go to full down and nutrual aileron. I can get it to tumble about 1 of 4 trys. I think the problem is me and timing, not the plane.
For the cartwheel I fly level at fairly high power, go to upper left corners with the sticks. After gyration starts I go from left aileron to right. If I hit just right (it seems right wing down on the plane I think) it will do 1 sometimes 2 cartwheels before going into an upright flat spin. Thats right upright even though I'm holding full down elevator.

we have a lake about 150 yards from our field and there are lots of planes in it.
Nice looking place you've got there foamguy.
Hope this helps

Foamguy

Guys,

The plane in the pic has no name yet.. it's my own design now in about the 3rd rebuild. It's a Polar Bear wing and Stickit V tail. 878 sq. in. of wing area, 4 lbs. It pretty much does everything I can make a plane do. It's a shade short coupled which makes it a little unstable in hover but still doable if you havent had too much coffee. The next one should be about 3" longer which ought to help hover stability without giving up too much in the snap/spin/roll/twist/stall mode. The next one should weigh about 3 lbs even with a .32 on it.

As for the pond, I've put more than my share in it. Fortunately, in summer the area in the pic is dry and we do have a boat. They say if you can fly at our field, you can fly anywhere as we have MANY challenging obstacles. ( Barns, orchards, pond, trees next to runway, powerlines, etc )

I'm also working on a 3rd generation of that plane which will have a little less chord so I can use my PAW .19 diesel on it. Predicted weight on that one is about 2.25 lbs.

I just low funfly planes. That's all I build anymore. Nothing else has much appeal to me. Well, nothing but combat planes, but I digress Well, make that funfly planes, combat planes, and deltas. Ok, maybe some scale too, but thats all.That's it. All those, plus my gyrocopter.

Foamguy

3dpilot

Hey guys:

Just about have pizzaz done, except Im thinking of changing to a 60 2 stroke. I dont want to strip my something extra yet and hate to go buy another 70 4 stroke.

How are they flying with 60 2 stroke. All I want to do is 3d and torque rolling and tail touches. So if it wont have the stones for that I ll spend the money on a 70

Let me know

PaulSwany

My Feedback: (45)

I saw a guy doing tail touches with a Irvine 53 and a 12.25 x 3.75 apc prop on it.....

m.gramling

My Feedback: (8)

Paul,
was that Gator doing tail touches w/ his pizazz. If it was Gator I bet he could do tail touches w/ a trainer if he wanted to.

Paul, I finally got my Wasp repaired. All I have to do is balance my GP Cap 232. Now that I have some planes airworthy. Maybe I can meet you at your field one weekend.