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Old 03-05-2003, 07:02 AM
  #1
Lazy Pilot
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Lets talk about Magics. I have a Magic, I love it and I want to get more out of it. I have a Pizazz with a Saito 72, a PBF and a US 40 with ST G-51 on a tuned pipe and quad flaps. I use a Futaba Super 8 for all of them. The Magic is my favorite by far.

My Magic started out being set up in the standard way with the HS-81 servo for throttle and the standards on everything else. I had a Webra 40 on it with a standard Webra mini tuned pipe. I broke the crank on the Webra and went back to the drawing board all the way around.

I replaced the motor with a TT GP-42 I had laying around. I used a header and OPM tuned pipe. I'm so impressed with that cheap little motor on that pipe. Great response and RPM, even on that little tiny carb and oilites. I've run the APC 11x4 and the Zinger 11x4. I'm partial to the Zinger for RPM and throttle response. The HS-81 went south in a matter of a few flights and one small impact with the ground. I took a standard servo and stuck it in the fuselage about 2.5" ahead of the vert stab. It sticks out and looks ugly. I used what was the rudder servo for the throttle and left it in the original position. I use 6v in all my planes (if you don't and you fly 3D, you need to consider it-makes a big difference in my opinion) and mounted the battery just ahead of the throttle servo. The CG is way back from the recommended.

Long story short, it will hover all day long...yada, yada. I coupled flaps with elevator for tight loops. It will hover, flip, hover, flip...blah, blah, blah. I have 70% spoilerons programmed in for great harriers. All together if flies really good.

My point to all of this is the following: It will not water fall, outside stuff is loose, it will not flat spin inverted or otherwise. I want it to do these things. How am I going to make it happen? I think if I alter the CG it will be nearly unflyable.

My other point is this: A $99 dollar ARF, a $49 engine all standard radio gear and this plane will just about dominate anything at the field, with exception of course. I want it do more though,

Is there anyone out there that has gotten everything out of their Magic? How did you do it?

Also, has anyone seen the "Heckler"? It's essentially a copy of the Weaver's Whatsit and it was designed by the guys at Wing Tote. I saw it fly at an RC show in Washington State and it rocks. Also notable was the Fun Air 40 from Jet Hobbies in Canada. It's a Magic, but lighter, with a fully symmetrical wing. Someone needs to buy both of these planes, fly them and report back to us pronto.

Got a little long with all that.......Sorry
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Old 03-05-2003, 06:09 PM
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To clean up the outside loops you will neeed a symetrical wing . Yada yada bla bla blaaa... The Weston Cougar is roughly the same thing, with the symetrical wing and is a better plane. if you get one and want to use a bigger engine, consider moving the fire wall back

My magic is outfitted with standard servos except HS 81 on throttle (with no problems in almost 100 flights) and i used a 720 MAH 6 volt pack. makes those standard servos come to life. engine is an old beat up GMS 47. I keep switching back and forth from the Macs muffler, and a mouse can pipe.

It has been a fun plane, but i like to try new things so i am stripping the gear off and selling it. Going to try the CG extreem 330.
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Old 03-05-2003, 07:01 PM
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I'd work some more on the flat spin thing.

My Magic flat spins like nobodies business. Both inverted and upright. If you are using right rudder for your flat spin, also try using left rudder. On mine that's all it takes to change from an inverted flat spin to an upright flat spin.

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standard S148's all around
6 volt 1100 mah nimh

My waterfalls with the Magic are sloppy too.
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Old 03-05-2003, 07:11 PM
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I wonder if this thing would do better with a different set of tail feathers... Somthing with a rudder that went all the way to the bottom of the fuse.... Maybe an elevator with a "v" cut for the rudder...
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Old 03-05-2003, 07:41 PM
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66 is right about the flat spins, certainly the Magics strong suit.

The CG needs to be around 5 1/4 ( if memory serves) mine winds up so tight i looks like a flying saucer.

The weston cougar will flat spin too, but so far i have not gotten it to do it as well as the Magic does.
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Old 03-05-2003, 07:44 PM
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Lazy - how are you attempting to do a flat spin? What stick positions / timming are you doing?
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Old 03-05-2003, 07:47 PM
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Mine flat spins like crazy. Takes lots of rudder but not much ail and elevator. I have a Webra 32 with Ultrathrust and has plenty of power. I can't get a waterfall either.... not like my Topcap anyway.
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Old 03-06-2003, 03:58 AM
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For flat spins I'm using full right rudder, a bit of up ele and left ail. Do you have a better way. I think I see the error of my ways already....left rudder, up ele and right ail. Could that be it? Or do I have other issues to work out?
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Old 03-06-2003, 03:59 AM
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For flat spins I'm using full right rudder, a bit of up ele and left ail. Do you have a better way? I think I see the error of my ways already....left rudder, up ele and right ail. Could that be it? Or do I have other issues to work out?

With the rudder where I have it I get a ton of throw left and right. The CG is dialed so I guess it's all on me now.
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Old 03-06-2003, 04:01 AM
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Lazy Pilot
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I don't always say things twice, say things twice....I thought I hit the stop botton in time to kill the first message so I could add the rest. Maybe I do have issues, issues.
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Old 03-06-2003, 04:23 AM
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Here it is
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Old 03-06-2003, 04:34 AM
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For inverted flat spins....
Try full right rudder, full down elevator and full left aileron. let it tumble a few times and slide the aileron over to neutral and maybe a little more to flatten it out...

For upright flat spins....
Try full left rudder, full up elevator and full left aileron. let it tumble a few times and slide the aileron over to neutral and maybe a little more to flatten it out...
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Old 03-06-2003, 04:41 AM
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I see.......so then the speed and additude is a factor. Are you going into it from a climb to stall and then giving the appropriate input at about 1/3 throttle? Or is it possible that I have no clue what I'm talking about?
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Old 03-06-2003, 05:00 AM
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Lazy.

It will do right flats but left are better for some reason.

If you are looking for an upright left flat spin, just give it full left rudder, left ailerons and up elevator at first. (just like swany says) wait till it gets into a downward spiral, the wing will be leaning into the turn (left tip down) gently feed in right aieleron till you see the wing flaten out, the tail should come down too and it will lock into a tight flat spin, and will hold altitude.

If the tail is still up, it is nose heavy. This plane will not flat spin if you have the CG "on the mark". The CG specified in the instructions is nose heavy

1/3 throttle is fine to start, add more in the falt spin and thte decent will be slower.
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Old 03-07-2003, 03:32 AM
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Thanks Spaceman, when it stops raining I think I'll be able to get it right. I checked out the Weston Cougar. The Fun Air 40 is almost identical. It was on Jet-hobbies.com, but I see they took it off. I know that they have not been able to keep them in stock. I must have one too!
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Old 03-12-2003, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by latch66
I'd work some more on the flat spin thing.

My Magic flat spins like nobodies business. Both inverted and upright. If you are using right rudder for your flat spin, also try using left rudder. On mine that's all it takes to change from an inverted flat spin to an upright flat spin.

My Magic
OS46SF
11.5 x 4 APC
standard S148's all around
6 volt 1100 mah nimh


My waterfalls with the Magic are sloppy too.

How well is the vertical from a hover with the OS46SF ?....Is it piped or stock muffler?

Gordon
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Old 03-12-2003, 03:08 AM
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Lazy Pilot
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Well I flew on Sunday and got things all dialed in. I got the flat spin part down both upright and inverted, but only to the left. The biggest problem that I encountered was a problem with my engine quitting in that tight spin. I don't know exactly how it's happening, but I can understand why it does. Probably something to do with centrifugal force and fuel....duh. Or again, maybe I don't have a clue.

I got the CG at about 5 3/4 inches and it's really flying well. It hovers great. I took an APC 12.25 x 3.75 and cut a quarter inch off of each end and kept the same fluid angle (I balanced it too) I was really surprised with how it worked. I don't have quite the RPM, but it hovers better and at a lower throttle setting. I still like the APC 11x4 the best though.
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Old 03-12-2003, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GD2FAST4U



How well is the vertical from a hover with the OS46SF ?....Is it piped or stock muffler?

Gordon
It's a stock muffler. The vertical is OK, but nothing to get excited about. A tuned pipe, or a Tower Muffler would definitely help.

I've also going to try a wooden 11 x4 prop. That should allow the motor to spool up quicker.
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Old 03-12-2003, 05:55 PM
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The OS seems to be very light at 13.2 ounces. Do you think the vertical performance would be really good with a tuned pipe?
I was thinking of puting an OS on my plane because I can go to my local hobby shop and pick one up with a tuned pipe.

My preference would be the Rossi 53, but Morris is out of them and I have to order it. The Rossi is 15 ounces and may will hurt the aerobatic performance some. I would like to talk to someone who is running the Rossi too.

Gordon
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Old 03-12-2003, 06:45 PM
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Where are you guys balancing your Magics at and are you putting any kind of thrust in your engine?...................John
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Old 03-12-2003, 07:12 PM
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I would think that the vertical performance with an OS46 would be outta site. Ive just got a TT.42GP plain bearing/air bleed carb motor on mine with a mousse can pipe and its pulls out super strong!!!! Ive ven had people ask me if thats a .53 or something. I say no........just an extremely light plane....and a mousse can baby!!!!!

But I cant imagine a OS46 not pulling even harder even with a stock muffler!?!?!?!?
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Old 03-12-2003, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by GD2FAST4U
The OS seems to be very light at 13.2 ounces. Do you think the vertical performance would be really good with a tuned pipe?
I was thinking of puting an OS on my plane because I can go to my local hobby shop and pick one up with a tuned pipe.

My preference would be the Rossi 53, but Morris is out of them and I have to order it. The Rossi is 15 ounces and may will hurt the aerobatic performance some. I would like to talk to someone who is running the Rossi too.

Gordon
I've not flown my Magic with a "tuned pipe". Before I put the OS46SF on it, I had an OS46FX with the Tower Muffler.

The OS46FX with the Tower Muffler allowed the motor to spool up faster with the 12.25 x 3.75 APC prop. This allowed for decent vertical performance.

I could not use that prop with the OS46SF with standard muffler and had to drop down to a 11.5 x 4 APC prop.
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Old 03-12-2003, 07:59 PM
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Mine also does a really tight spin. Usually ending in a dead stick, because the engine died. I've yet to figure it out, thought of using a check valve on the pressure line to the tank. Verticle is really good with the 46fx MAC muffler and 11x4 power point.

I just kept adding alittle lead till I had to start using expo on the elevator. But it needs alittle right thrust. Mixing flapperons helps with waterfalls but they aren't really tight.
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Old 03-13-2003, 01:36 AM
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I have an OS 40 FX on a mousse can and it goes vertical forever......John
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Old 03-13-2003, 02:02 AM
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I moved the rudder servo back on the fuse in front of the rudder and installed a micro servo for the throttle, moved the elevator servo forward to the rudder spot so I could install a giant servo arm, then if I need more rear weight, I'll move the battery to where the elevator servo was. I need to buy a new motor though.......

Can't wait to see how it flys with the new mods.
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