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I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

Old 05-09-2003, 12:09 PM
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hoverit-RCU
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

My club is b!tching about me hovering, they asked if I would only do it at either end of the field because it makes the other pilots nervous.

Well they make me nervous ***, they are horrible.

I guess they don't like the fact that I can tail tap and land 2 steps in front of myself.

Should I build a kamakazi SPAD to kill any bird that gets in my airspace?

Should I only mow the area I need to land? (10 ft patch)

I guess I could empty the shed and hover in there, there's no wind in there anyway.

Anyone know the AMA rules on guys that hover? Hand launching?

If I wanted to fly by myself like I have for the last 20 yrs I wouldn't have joined their stupid club and got a expensive little card stamped AMA.

I guess I can ask for a refund and go fly where I want, which is any parking lot, oh ya I have 14 acres lol.

OK enough for now.
Old 05-09-2003, 12:20 PM
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ReallyUglyStick
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

sounds like you are in the wrong here. it's quite unnerving for anybody to have a plane hovering in front of them while they are trying to fly. i think the club has done you well by allowing the hovering to continue, just away from the pilots and runway...they could ban it all together. don't just think about yourself, there are other people at the club, too. if you don't like the rules, don't fly there. i have nothing against hovering and try to do it myself, but never in front of others while they are flying, and always across the runway out of the pattern. if noone's up, i'll fly how i want, but my first concern is the safety of myself and others.
this has been beaten into the ground for a while here. do a search and you'll find other posts just like yours, with tons of responses just like mine.
Old 05-09-2003, 12:29 PM
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ChuckAuger
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

And tons of other responses, too.
Old 05-09-2003, 12:38 PM
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YNOT
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

Yea, welcome to the club.

For the most part, clubs do have a problem with low level hovering. Some of it has to do with safety the other part is, you are in the middle of the pattern and not moving. And yes, some of it can be jealousy

I have developed my own, 3D etiquette.

I fly alone, or only with other liked minded 3D folks. Depending on the field, I will go further from the pits only for safety. And sometimes, I will ask other pilots to give me 10 minutes for me to go do my thing, and for the most part, they don't have a problem, with it.

I enjoy flying at several different fields, however some of them are not 3D friendly, so I stick to the ones that are.

Look for a happy medium between you and the one who enjoy flying in a circle.

Push come to shove..............Go Outlaw and fly at the school.
Old 05-09-2003, 12:56 PM
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wgeffon
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

I give this thread 3 days before it shuts down. Thats usually how long they last.

Hoverit,
I was in your same situation at my club. Noone here did any 3D prior to me. Everyone thought it was cool for about 2 days. Then the moaning from some of the members started.

I now will not hover over the runway when specific members are in the air.
I also know the people that dont mind me doing it and I try to fly when they are up or, fly when I am the only one in the air.

TOLERANCE is the key word and it goes both ways.. They need to be tolerant of your flying style and you need to be tolerant of the rules set by the club. There has to be some middle ground.

As far as a Safety issue, I dont buy that at all. To me, a hovering plane is far less likely to waste itself in the pitts than a warbird or racer doing high speed low passes.

This issue is the same one all clubs went through when helicopters became big in the late 80's.
Old 05-09-2003, 01:11 PM
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P-51B
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

Everyone just needs to be considerate of one another.

Our club allows it on the other side of the runway. That way, you are not near the other pilots, and airspace over the runway is open for touch and go, deadstick, and takeoff/landing maneuvers.
Old 05-09-2003, 01:18 PM
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Kevins_RC
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

Originally posted by wgeffon
I give this thread 3 days before it shuts down. Thats usually how long they last.

Hoverit,
I was in your same situation at my club. Noone here did any 3D prior to me. Everyone thought it was cool for about 2 days. Then the moaning from some of the members started.

I now will not hover over the runway when specific members are in the air.
I also know the people that dont mind me doing it and I try to fly when they are up or, fly when I am the only one in the air.

TOLERANCE is the key word and it goes both ways.. They need to be tolerant of your flying style and you need to be tolerant of the rules set by the club. There has to be some middle ground.

As far as a Safety issue, I dont buy that at all. To me, a hovering plane is far less likely to waste itself in the pitts than a warbird or racer doing high speed low passes.

This issue is the same one all clubs went through when helicopters became big in the late 80's.
I whole heartly AGREE! And I do the same. There are some at my club that I make nervous. I recongnize this, and respect it. I have worked things out with most fellow fliers by keeping my aircraft isolated to a specific area away from others, and call out when I am going to do some thing close in to me, i.e. elevator, waterfalls, harrier landings, just to let others know what I am going to do. I typcially fly with there is a couple of older guys flying war birds in a pattern. I kid with them all the time and tell them to "Follow Me!", "Do what I do" <LOL> We all laugh about it. I find that if you keep it light hearted, don't take the a*%holes too serious, though try to respect where they are coming from, we can all still have a good time. People go through phases. I had the same issues intially. Now I find that allot to the guys that initially complained about my flying is defending me with the newcomers. Hang in there and have a little patience while respecting others rights.
'Food for thought'
Kevin
Old 05-09-2003, 01:36 PM
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Spaceman Spiff
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

My club is fine with hovering, but not right over the runway. They ask that it be on the other side of the runway (another 10 feet). That extra 10 feet is all it takes to make most of them comfortable, no big deal.
Old 05-09-2003, 01:51 PM
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flip3d
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

the deffanition of a clup is a wood object really big on one end and a handle on the other side (wood bat) to control a group of people
it all out there
but let them fly and they need to let u fly

3dintheair
Old 05-09-2003, 02:02 PM
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hoverit-RCU
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

I think I'm going to tell my club to go.... well you know. And go join a HELI club. Atleast I'll be acceppted and REALLYUGLYSTICK if you ever learn to hover you'll understand.
Old 05-09-2003, 02:19 PM
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Goinstraightup
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

As I'm ducking to miss the flying mud, I think most of the posters are right on about having your own area. I took my PBF to a neighboring club and flew with a PBF buddy. At his club he has a section that is about 60 feet by 40 feet right in between the pitts and the end of one runway. He can park on his side of the shelter and it works out real nice. I had a great time flying my PBF there and I almost got a haircut from a lady with a trainer. I didn't get mad though. Accidents can happen with all planes.
Old 05-09-2003, 02:39 PM
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m.gramling
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

I love to hover. I think I am good at it. I can hover but not T-roll just about thing.

However, I have learned from experience that accidents do happen. I complained about what your talking about stuff that happened to my at my club.

One day a friend and I were the only two at the field flying. I was hovering up close about eye leve above the ground, about 5 feet in front of me. He was standing about 10ft behind me taking pictures. I thought he already stopped taking pictures and was in the pitts. The wind was calm maybe 3mph. When from out of now where a big gust of wind, blew the plane back, staight at me. I jumped out of the way. Luckily my friend was paying attention and saw the plane coming and he got out of the way. The plane missed both of us. I was very luckly that neither one of us got us. And ever since then, I have learned to move the plane further out, and off to one side.

If I am the only one flying, I get down low, and to one side, but if there is somebody else flying, that would put my plane in front of them, and off course their going to get nervous. Because they have to worry about me hovering in their face, and still fly their plane.

Maybe I am the only one this has happened too. I hope so. But I doubt it. I am sure their are some other people out there that this has happened to.

I have learned the hard way, I crashed a great flying airplane to keep from hitting my friend and I. Luckily nobody got hurt.

I am not trying to bash you are anybody else. I love funflys, and hovering, thats all I own. most people do not like what we do.

But when somebody is flying that I know who likes to do inverted, or upright full speed passes about eye level. I don't fly at the same time when they do. I give them their time, and I will get mine. Its all about tollerance

This is what make me nervous when I am flying is somebody flying a delta, a outlaw, or some sort of high speed pane, and do 100mph+ passes down the runway about knee level..
Old 05-09-2003, 02:47 PM
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

I lost a plane due to someone hovering on the runway when I called deadstick. My spotter and he went into a shouting match.
He felt it was his god given right to fly anywhere he pleased and that I wasn't going to make the runway anyway. I quess I was inferrior to a guy that can't fly strait and level....He had an attitude.

Still does - This summer we are having a 3D showdown. Don't take it outside, take to the air, right? Combat anyone????

Anyway....

I hover too, but not on the figgin runway!!!! To me, it shows inconsideration and also risks safety.

Use a spotter!!!! I see a lot of guys flying 3D alone and are so involved in the flight they lose perspective to whats around them. And can get kinda crabby when interrupted. I have to have a spotter, puts me at ease to know someones watching my back.

Same day, same fly-in, same jerk lost control of his 1/3 scale 232 and into the flightline he went. So no, 3D is not safer than making high speed fly-bys.

It does make me upset to learn that there are clubs banning 3D and Helis altogether. You guys are right, everyone needs to be tolerant of each other and give and take equally or don't play in the sandbox.
Old 05-09-2003, 03:51 PM
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hoverit-RCU
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

They also tossed the safety issue at me, (those razor sharp prop will chew you up real quick). My arguement is a razor sharp prop on a outta control cub or something doing 50 mph plus is worse than me hovering in front of myself, and if it dead sticks at 2 ft off the ground odds are it's not going into the pilots on the flightline.

A month ago I almost had to hurdle a 1/4 scale cub that had gone wild in a cross wind, at the time it just made me giggle.
Old 05-09-2003, 04:00 PM
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Dago Red
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

I had a Lanier predator a few months back, people wouldnt fly with me due to the speed, but they loved to see it fly. I took it to a airshow and had people complain about my horrible flying and the "bad" shape it was in. the said i flew over the pits low inverted, ect. They thought if they talked to the club president of my club , he would stop me from flying it, he laughed and said I had been flying it for several months.

I havent been told i shouldnt or couldnt do any thing. I have a lazy bee and love to do donuts with it, if anyone is flying ill ask if i can do donuts and continue on my depending to what they say.

I have been called a bad pilot and a bad builder, same club as the one i just mentioned, a guy saw my midwest citabria lose its wing in flight and he made sure I knew about it here on RCU. there was a faliure in the wood, bet he didnt look at that. Thats a club I plan to never return to.

Know how ya feel in a way, but just let them know how you feel and there are no rules that say hovering is no permitted on the runway , to my knowledge, and if so find it.
Old 05-09-2003, 04:07 PM
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JWilliams
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

Hoverit, every situation is unique and we have all gone thru this at one time or another. At my field, 3D is accepted if you are competent at it you can bring it in and personal. Now safety is always paramount, and while I hover my planes right next to me, I feel confident in my abilities and noone has challenged me. Seek some middle ground before you burn a bridege. Take the high road as hard as that may seem but in the end you will be the better for it. Also, ask them if you pay the same amount in club dues they do? That should give you an equal voice. Best of luck to you and never stop 3din. Jeff W.
Old 05-09-2003, 04:44 PM
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Flyfalcons
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

Originally posted by hoverit
I think I'm going to tell my club to go.... well you know. And go join a HELI club. Atleast I'll be acceppted and REALLYUGLYSTICK if you ever learn to hover you'll understand.
This pretty much sums up the problem here. Arrogance. For most people, having a plane hover close to them while trying to comcentrate on their own planes can be unnerving. When my buddy and I grab our QHORs and hover close in, we time it so when we go up, there are no other flyers in the air. If I want to fly my QHOR or PBF when others are up, I'll take it down to the end of the runway. Having the attitude that you will do whatever you want whenever you want is not going to do anyone any good. Jusat try to time your flights so you are more or less alone on the flightline and you will see that people actually enjoy watching your plane emulating a heli.
Old 05-09-2003, 05:29 PM
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Sailor
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

My personal rule at the field is that I don't want to do something that will make the average person nervous.

Our field rule on 3D is that it should be done in short periods with the plane/helo in the middle of the field, when other fliers are present, and that they should normally fly the established pattern. If you are the only one up, then the field is yours to do what you want, just not behind the flightline.

I fly with a great bunch of folks that respect each other and if I wanted the whole field to go 3D nuts, all I would need to do is ask for it and they would certainly let me do so.

Bottom line, if you go in with the attitude that you own the place then it ain't gonna work. If you give respect first, then it is almost always returned.
Old 05-09-2003, 05:33 PM
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ReallyUglyStick
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

was that supposed to be a pot shot at me? i'm humble enough to know that no matter how good i am, there's always someone better. as for understanding, and the safety issue...sure...it's safe to hover 10 or 15 feet in front of someone standing at a flight station. believe whatever you want. i was recently priveledged enough to see an awesome pilot at our funfly. he was flying a huge 40% something or another, and the skys cleared when he went up. he was/is damn good. nobody would have said anything if he decided he wanted to hover over the runway during his demos. HOWEVER, he decided that in the interest of safety he would hover out over the field, 50 ft or so beyond the runway, where he would have been safe even if other pilots were flying.
like i said above: i'm not against hovering, i am against those stupid enough to believe it's safe to do it right over the runway in front of other people trying to control their planes. what do you say when someone loses control of their plane because they were too busy keeping an eye on your meat grinder right in front of them? what do you say when someone takes their $5 spad and purposely runs it through your hovermachine because you weren't considerate enough to see their side of the situation?
you joined the club and in doing so you promised to abide by ALL the rules, and i'm sure you'll find something about a pattern in those rules.

:edited to remove a heat-of-the-moment comment.
Old 05-09-2003, 05:36 PM
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NM2K
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

Landing models always have the right of way. That is just plain old common sense.

Some things simply do not mix. Helis and 3D should have their own flying facilities, whether official or unofficial. I fly regular planes, helis and profile 3D models, so I am not prejudiced, just pragmatic. When I want to fly a heli, I don't want to hear a lot of whining from the fixed wing crowd. It is only logical that I find somewhere to fly unimpeded and unharassed. Ditto 3D.

Refusing to yield the right of way to a landing aircraft is one of the best arguments I have heard for building a strong, heavy model. A Kaos covered with Super Coverite and painted with epoxy paint should do the trick. Pooof! Landing complete!
Old 05-09-2003, 06:02 PM
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ChuckAuger
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Default As predicted..

This thread is quickly spiraling into the depths...not that I'm surprised, it happens EVERY SINGLE TIME the subject comes up.

So in the interest of saving time and typing, I humbly suggest a search for "Hovering Over The Runway". Then you can quickly and easily see that all the arguments back and forth have already been thrown about. So with a quick cut-n-paste, you can continue to hurl insults back and forth, but with the added ease and confort of not having to actually type all the rhetoric that has ALREADY BEEN TYPED SO MANY, MANY TIMES EXACTLY LIKE THIS BEFORE.

Thank you for your time and consideration. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
Old 05-09-2003, 06:07 PM
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m.gramling
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

I agree with wayne. I give it 3 days.
I can see that this thread is going nowhere fast.
Old 05-09-2003, 07:10 PM
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stratcat98
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Default I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

I guess if you started a club with the intent of people hovering and flying slow, having gone through all the time to get approval and organize a club and build tables and stands for pilots and all of the things that make a club such a nice place for you and your friends to fly at, then some body interrupts you with a quickie 500 Rossi, tuned pipe going 120 ten feet in front of you you would get together with the other 10 guys that hover and ask them to stop.
Its not safety....THEY ALL CRASH.
Its annoying when your hovering and someone is going 100 mph back and forth.
Its annoying when your going a hundred back and forth and some one is hovering in front of you.
They are both fun to watch for about 5 minutes then you realize they require complete concentration.
If your going to do something that the club your joining or flying at doesn't do......ask about flying off to the side. Try to make it a place we can all use together, united (violins in the background).
Don't walk away mad, talk to the club, find a spot that you can agree on.
I fly heli's slope, profile and I also have a cub.. and it something I have learned to do......get along. If you walk away mad your letting someone else control your day!!!! don't let 3 retired old guys decide what happens at YOUR club.
Old 05-09-2003, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: I'm being shunned for hovering at my club!

[B]My club is b!tching about me hovering, they asked if I would only do it at either end of the field because it makes the other pilots nervous.
I'm with sailor. I never want to do anything that makes others nervous, and I'd appreciate the same courtesy. Folks that don't mind making people nervous REALLY make me nervous. It sounds like your club proposed a reasonable solution. Why on earth do you think it's jealousy? If folks say they're nervous, it's probably just that they are nervous.

This whole safety issue has little to do with pilot skill. People are people, and they validly fear propellers turning near them. Fear is good. Connectors come lose, radios die, even perfect pilots lose control of airplanes. Asking for an extra safety buffer is very reasonable. This doesn't just apply to hovering. Folks shouldn't be doing low passes over the runway, or manuevers that head straight toward other pilots and then turn away. Think at each moment, what would happen if I lost control of the airplane at exactly that point?
Old 05-09-2003, 08:44 PM
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BAD ANDY
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Default a point is a point

I have read good and bad points on this issue. I can understand both sides of the coin. And now, myself and Stomper have been asked to hover and tail tap at one end of the feild. Yes i was pissed at first when I heard, and I actually only cut a small patch of grass and painted circles in that patch for tail touching and finally decided to cut the rest of the feild.

I can see what makes people nervous but please think of it from my side also. I get nervous when the "club" looks to me to maiden flight a new persons plane, or train someone to fly. That must mean that I am a compitant pilot, I did not say great so dont think I did. Also makes me nervous for a person to fly that has lost all depth perception. This can go on and on. I apologize for rambling, but just always remember that the coin has 2 sides.

And for what it is worth, the pilots that can hover and torque roll and tail touch didnt learn it overnight and are generally some of the best pilots in the club, and usually you will find these pilots at the feild more so than lets say a scale pilot etc. These are just my thoughts and concerns, mine not yours so dont try to crucify me for these.. Thanks, and have a great one, BAD ANDY

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