Q-40 Racing Discuss AMA 422 and any other variants of Quarter 40 racing

finishing problems

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Old 02-08-2013, 05:22 PM
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kommander
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Default finishing problems

I have gone to the local sign shop for some paint masks. He assures me that they are low tack and he's never had a problem. I am using single stage polyurethane for the base color and two stage for trim. When I stick the mask on it sticks very aggressively, almost to the point of pulling paint when removed. What's worse is that it sometimes leaves glue residue around the just painted number or whatever. I try to clean the glue off with " Kustom shop grease & wax remover", It takes the glue off OK but in the process smears the two stage paint over the base color. Any suggestions?
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:24 PM
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Kevin Matney
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Default RE: finishing problems

It all goes back to the primer did you use?
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:19 PM
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kommander
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Default RE: finishing problems

PCL Poly prime
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:35 PM
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Default RE: finishing problems

Primer doesn't have anything to do with the glue residue.

I've seen this before and the sign maker is not using a low tack vinyl. There is a low tack vinyl that is used for bumper stickers. Also float your vinyl on to the surface with soapy water, squeegy the water out from under the vinyl with a soft plastic card, starting at the edge of the number and working your way out.

When you remove the vinyl mask pull it back over it self. Let the paint dry 24 hours. Then using your thumb, roll any glue residue of the paint. Clean with pure 70% rubbing alcohol.

Frank
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:49 PM
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Default RE: finishing problems

I learned years ago that not all low tack adhesives are the same, and can react with our different basecoats. I spoke with many pylon racers about this and learned one thing: nothing is for sure. Test it and if it works, great. If not, find another material. I bought a huge role of masking film on ebay for around 20 dollars. So far it works with Omni and DBC basecoats.

Kurt
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:40 AM
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Default RE: finishing problems

I have used 3M fine line tape to mask off the lines and then I use the blue painters masking tape to hold masking paper to the fineline tape. I have been doing this for years with no problems. Paints uesd have been K&B superpoxy to spray bomb types.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:37 AM
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Default RE: finishing problems

The backside of the vinyl stencils is labeled GERBERMASK. That type works fine.

I apply the basecoat first, which has been Acrylic Enamel. After this is dry it is wet sanded with wet-and-dry sandpaper, used wet.

The surface is then cleaned.

Stencils are applied.

I've had best luck using Krylon (gloss black) for the trim. Spray a very light amount first. Let dry a few minutes. Spray a couple more light coats and let dry.

Remove the stencil immediately after the final coats are dry.

Krylon is not totally fuel proof, but will be fine unless fuel is applied directly on top.

Typically I feather in the trim with wet-and-dry sandpaper, used wet.

I then apply automotive clear coat over the top.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:59 PM
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Default RE: finishing problems

I have had the same thing happen a couple of times, one was old stencil vinyl that had gotten hot and glue was bad but the most common problem is that the catalized single stage color you put on first was not 100% dry and still releasing solvent. Mostly if you sand the base coat the day after sprayed and it is cold outside the paint isnt fully cured. When you put stencil on to do your numbers etc. the solvent being released attacks the glue and you have a real mess to fix...

DE
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:12 PM
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Default RE: finishing problems

Thanks for all the input, how about the de-greaser / wax remover. Any recommendations or should I not be using it?
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:49 PM
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Default RE: finishing problems

For removing any decal adhesive use an "adhesive remover" There are industrial strength brands I use for my business for huge removal jobs ( about $50 a gl).
But Ace hardware sells a 3M adhesive remover- get that.
Get area wet with remover, Let soak for 5 minutes . Gently rub off. Repeat process if needed.
Other chemicals tend to buff the finish or even take off color.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:35 PM
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Default RE: finishing problems


ORIGINAL: kommander

Thanks for all the input, how about the de-greaser / wax remover. Any recommendations or should I not be using it?

T.P. of FlyFastComposites told me that they were too strong and he did not use them. I followed his lead.

Kurt
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:16 AM
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cessilva20
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Default RE: finishing problems

Bruce don't use any degrease r none of that stuff soap and water works the best and use the same brands of paint going to use PPG then use there base coats. What ever brand some aren't compatible always 3m fine line tape then run masking tape just on top of fine with easy pressure make sure you use auto motive masking tape 3m also. I use to base coat everything first one after another no sanding or wiping stuff on it you put rubbing alcohol would lift it. Then I clear over the top base coat dries fast and use air brush for all stripes and letters so you don't get so much paint on the plane you should barely fill the line. If you are putting base on single has to be sanded after so many hours or base won't stick .Paints have changed now water base so good luck find you a place who mixes auto motive paint for a living and they can tell you what is compatible with what. And a good primer if your parts aren't painted from the mold is huge on how that stuff sticks and adheres. If you have painted part want to stripe it use single stage unless you are going to clear for fuel proof then a base coat but you will have to sand for it to stick.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:18 AM
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cessilva20
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Default RE: finishing problems

You building one of your new ones yet? Bruce send me a picture like to see it.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:19 AM
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luv to race
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Default RE: finishing problems

Gerbermask! Gerbermask!

I don't know anyone that doesn't use Gerbermask...

Maybe try and email Jim Allen.. He does paint masks for many of the top painters!

RB
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:21 AM
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Randy Etken
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Default RE: finishing problems

All I have ever used is Avery vinyl paint mask, never had a problem. Over 200 wings.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:12 PM
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Default RE: finishing problems

I have used Gerber mask,, I did not care for it as much as I do MacTac Masking film. I get mine from H and H supply.

I have used it with many different paint types and brands with good luck. In my opinion it is more stable than Gerber mask, and far better than ANY sign vinyl
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