PoleCat
05-23-2004, 08:30 PM
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PoleCat
The Nats are sneaking up, and I still only have one somewhat flyable Q40 ready to go. I've been looking at this Polecat for a couple months and thought I'd get started working on it.
My first thoughts are "Very Impressive"! I got the servo tray, elevator, rudder, and throttle pushrods set up today. I trimmed and fitted the small fiberglass pieces that fit around the engine and the landing gear, and they fit great. Cut my holes for my fuel tank, and checked the fit of the engine. I noticed neither the Tetra or Jett C.G. tanks don't seem to quite fit under the wing?? After checking with Dub, it turns out he has a new "PoleCat" tank that clears the wing which I got on order.
I lightly dusted it with Primer tonight, and hope to get some paint on this thing by the end of the week...
How about Green?
Very Nice Plane!
My first thoughts are "Very Impressive"! I got the servo tray, elevator, rudder, and throttle pushrods set up today. I trimmed and fitted the small fiberglass pieces that fit around the engine and the landing gear, and they fit great. Cut my holes for my fuel tank, and checked the fit of the engine. I noticed neither the Tetra or Jett C.G. tanks don't seem to quite fit under the wing?? After checking with Dub, it turns out he has a new "PoleCat" tank that clears the wing which I got on order.
I lightly dusted it with Primer tonight, and hope to get some paint on this thing by the end of the week...
How about Green?
Very Nice Plane!
05-25-2004, 11:20 PM
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RE: PoleCat
Painted up the fuze last night, and hope to get to the wing tommorrow.
Dan Kane did a great job getting this plane ready for paint (thanks!).
I have been using 2 part epoxy paint from www.klasskote.com and have been very happy. I am not a good painter, and this stuff just looks great. I got some stencils ordered from Jim Allen, and hope to get it trimmed out with numbers by this weekend.
When you mount the engine, and fit the fiberglass engine cover, this thing looks scary fast. I can't wait to fly this thing.
Dan Kane did a great job getting this plane ready for paint (thanks!).
I have been using 2 part epoxy paint from www.klasskote.com and have been very happy. I am not a good painter, and this stuff just looks great. I got some stencils ordered from Jim Allen, and hope to get it trimmed out with numbers by this weekend.
When you mount the engine, and fit the fiberglass engine cover, this thing looks scary fast. I can't wait to fly this thing.
05-28-2004, 09:18 PM
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RE: PoleCat
I painted the black trim and numbers on tonight. I will say, Jim Allen's Stencils work great. Had to throw it together for a quick picture. Still needs to get clear gloss tommorrow, and hopefully a test flight on Sunday or Monday (if it stops raining).
I can't remember being this excited to fly a plane.
I can't remember being this excited to fly a plane.
05-30-2004, 05:57 PM
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RE: PoleCat
Well, the new Jett tank didn't quite work out for me. I was testing how it would fit, and it was a snug fit. I pushed and squeezed it into place and it finnally popped in. The problem was, I couldn't get it back out, and it still didn't clear the wing like I had hoped. I had to drill a hole through the firewall to push it back out. In the process I nicked the tank pretty bad, and ended up using the C.G. tank anyways.
Just a little heat with the gun to squeeze the tank to fit. There is a little extra work to do with the Polecat, but its really not that bad. I suppose the next one will be much easier.
It came out quite light (Over 2 oz). Anyone else having this problem (I know this isn't really a problem, just odd).
Just a little heat with the gun to squeeze the tank to fit. There is a little extra work to do with the Polecat, but its really not that bad. I suppose the next one will be much easier.
It came out quite light (Over 2 oz). Anyone else having this problem (I know this isn't really a problem, just odd).
05-31-2004, 01:14 AM
#6
RE: PoleCat
Dave,
I used the Jett CG tank but I didn't try to reshape it; just shoved it in there and bolted the wing on. It's a tight fit but that doesn't seem to cause any problems.
Q-40 tanks are usually snug and hanging a strip of tape off the end can give you something to tug on when it comes time for removal.
Most Polecats come out under weight (the finished one we bought from Bruce was 3.5 ounces under....). Add tip weight, possibly tail weight, a lane marker, and residual fuel and you should be right on! Nice thing about an underweight plane like this is that it gives a little room for repairs without getting too far away from minimum weight.
Question: did you paint the entire airframe, or just the trim?
Tony Pacini
I used the Jett CG tank but I didn't try to reshape it; just shoved it in there and bolted the wing on. It's a tight fit but that doesn't seem to cause any problems.
Q-40 tanks are usually snug and hanging a strip of tape off the end can give you something to tug on when it comes time for removal.
Most Polecats come out under weight (the finished one we bought from Bruce was 3.5 ounces under....). Add tip weight, possibly tail weight, a lane marker, and residual fuel and you should be right on! Nice thing about an underweight plane like this is that it gives a little room for repairs without getting too far away from minimum weight.
Question: did you paint the entire airframe, or just the trim?
Tony Pacini
05-31-2004, 06:21 AM
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RE: PoleCat
I added some tape to the second tank. It was kinda weird with Stubby tank, its made of a different material (clear). I thought I could get it back out, but it was a pain trying to get a handle on it (slippery).
The C.G. tank ended up working fine. It came out a bit nose heavy, so I needed to move everything back. Snug fit, but ok.
The whole plane is painted and cleared with KlassKote 2 part Epoxy paints. I know I've mentioned it before, but I really like this stuff. Plus they got a great shade of green. The paint is fuel proof as it is, but the clear helps smooth out the paint lines, and I could tell it needed the extra weight. If you liked the old Hobby Poxy paints, you will like the KlassKote, also their catalyst and reducer work in most cases with the Old Hobby Poxy. There are NO trim colors on the bottom, I left it solid white.
www.klasskote.com
The C.G. tank ended up working fine. It came out a bit nose heavy, so I needed to move everything back. Snug fit, but ok.
The whole plane is painted and cleared with KlassKote 2 part Epoxy paints. I know I've mentioned it before, but I really like this stuff. Plus they got a great shade of green. The paint is fuel proof as it is, but the clear helps smooth out the paint lines, and I could tell it needed the extra weight. If you liked the old Hobby Poxy paints, you will like the KlassKote, also their catalyst and reducer work in most cases with the Old Hobby Poxy. There are NO trim colors on the bottom, I left it solid white.
www.klasskote.com
05-31-2004, 02:29 PM
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RE: PoleCat
Between the storms and bad weather I was able to finally get a flight in with this thing. Take off was great and it only need a couple clicks of up (still a hair nose heavy). Wing was dead straight. I had backed down Dan's throws a hair on the elevator and guess what, I could have used a little more. Next time I'll listen. The ailerons were a tad hotter than I liked, but fine for a test flight. I haven't flown one of these since the Nats last year, and of course, it came in quicker than I wanted. Also, I didn't quite have enough elevator on high rates to flare it how I like so I touched down a bit hotter than I wanted. The metal tail skid came loose, but no other damage. A little clean up and epoxy and I'll be back in business.
I spoke to a friend, and he mentioned that you have to run the stubby tank backwards to clear the wing (alla Ed Smith). Even so, considering the balance, I think you may be better off with the C.G. tank closer to the C.G.
Great Plane. Flew very good, and appeared plenty fast with the CF prop at about 22,500.
I spoke to a friend, and he mentioned that you have to run the stubby tank backwards to clear the wing (alla Ed Smith). Even so, considering the balance, I think you may be better off with the C.G. tank closer to the C.G.
Great Plane. Flew very good, and appeared plenty fast with the CF prop at about 22,500.
06-01-2004, 01:06 PM
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RE: PoleCat
Dave,
You're only getting 22,500 with the black prop? The rest of us are getting 24,500 easy. I'd say your engine has a serious problem. Yes, you should worry ... worry a lot ... you're handicapped ... I'd say you'll probably cut #1 trying to keep up. Such a pity.
FWIW, I'm using the regular CG tank, installed backwards, with the front end blocked up with a piece of white Styrofoam and the back end (neck & cap) nestled between the landing gear attachment bolts. The leading edge of the wing does compress it a little, but not enough to worry about.
I raised the front end to keep the average height of the fuel cell -- i.e., the center of hydraulic pressure -- as high as possible. I don't like having the fuel tank lying on the floor of the fuselage because that will tend to make the engine lean out in a high-G turn. Yes, I know, there are plenty of folks who will tell you that doesn't matter with a bladder tank, but they are simply wrong. It may not matter as much as with a clunk tank, but it still makes a difference. Imagine running your engine on a test stand, perched on the edge of a 3-story parking garage, with your bladder tank sitting on the sidewalk 30 feet below. Do you think the engine won't run lean? I say it will.
Of course, to settle this question once and for all, we may need to get David Letterman involved!
You're only getting 22,500 with the black prop? The rest of us are getting 24,500 easy. I'd say your engine has a serious problem. Yes, you should worry ... worry a lot ... you're handicapped ... I'd say you'll probably cut #1 trying to keep up. Such a pity.
FWIW, I'm using the regular CG tank, installed backwards, with the front end blocked up with a piece of white Styrofoam and the back end (neck & cap) nestled between the landing gear attachment bolts. The leading edge of the wing does compress it a little, but not enough to worry about.
I raised the front end to keep the average height of the fuel cell -- i.e., the center of hydraulic pressure -- as high as possible. I don't like having the fuel tank lying on the floor of the fuselage because that will tend to make the engine lean out in a high-G turn. Yes, I know, there are plenty of folks who will tell you that doesn't matter with a bladder tank, but they are simply wrong. It may not matter as much as with a clunk tank, but it still makes a difference. Imagine running your engine on a test stand, perched on the edge of a 3-story parking garage, with your bladder tank sitting on the sidewalk 30 feet below. Do you think the engine won't run lean? I say it will.
Of course, to settle this question once and for all, we may need to get David Letterman involved!
06-01-2004, 06:16 PM
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RE: PoleCat
The weather we had yesterday was similar to Muncie (HUMID) last year, and it was turning roughly the same then. Which I'm glad because this is the engine I dumped around #3 into the pavement chasing Randy and Tom in the Heat Tom set the fast time for Q40.
Don't you know, it doesn't matter the height of the tank with a bladder
If it does, I sure haven't seen it. I suppose if you have room to raise it, go for it. Can't hurt.
Don't you know, it doesn't matter the height of the tank with a bladder
If it does, I sure haven't seen it. I suppose if you have room to raise it, go for it. Can't hurt.
06-02-2004, 05:43 AM
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RE: PoleCat
Plane looks good Dave. I'm not sure about the backwards tank thing though. It confuses me a bit. Won't the fuel lines get squished comng from the radio tray back past the tank? And where do these guys run the fuel lines getting past the tank? there is literally no room to get by the tank with the wing on? Unless the tank is way up in the nose? Now my tank is over and slightly back of the landing gear pad. One thing my dad did was not put the piece of plywood on that gear pad (which takes up cabin space). He used a carbon plate less than 1/16 thick with blind nuts. My tank doesn't even squish when I put the wing on.
Anyways, great plane. Fly's good. Yours looks great! See you in a little over a month...
Randy
Anyways, great plane. Fly's good. Yours looks great! See you in a little over a month...
Randy
06-02-2004, 04:30 PM
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RE: PoleCat
Randy
I think the idea behind the backwards tank is that during the turn the fuel is pushed to the back of the tank from centrifugal or centripetal force effectively increasing fuel pressure during the turn. This only works if the tank outlet is behind the pitch axes; (balance point) if the tank is in the nose I think the fuel would go to the bottom not the back. To get the fuel line past the tank use brass or aluminum tube where the line would be pinched. So I take it you will be flying a Polecat at the NATS. See you then
Lee
I think the idea behind the backwards tank is that during the turn the fuel is pushed to the back of the tank from centrifugal or centripetal force effectively increasing fuel pressure during the turn. This only works if the tank outlet is behind the pitch axes; (balance point) if the tank is in the nose I think the fuel would go to the bottom not the back. To get the fuel line past the tank use brass or aluminum tube where the line would be pinched. So I take it you will be flying a Polecat at the NATS. See you then
Lee
06-02-2004, 06:51 PM
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RE: PoleCat
It would be tough with the C.G. tank to run it backwards because it is pretty tight on the sides, but the stubby jett tank fits way up in the nose and I think it could be done. Its kinda short and fat. I found out that some of the guys using the Stubby Jett tank are cutting a pretty good sized hole in the firewall and letting the nose of the tank stick into the firewall with the fuel line coming out behind the engine. I like your idea of 1/16" carbon plate Randy, but I had Dan get this one ready for paint, so the ply was already installed.
All I know, is this plane is fast. Can't wait to get it on the course.
I hope to be in Muncie. I'm signed up, but work might keep me away.
All I know, is this plane is fast. Can't wait to get it on the course.
I hope to be in Muncie. I'm signed up, but work might keep me away.
06-02-2004, 07:24 PM
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RE: PoleCat
Dave
I know it might be too late but if you put the ply or carbon plate on the outside there is no room taken up inside. I think Dan Kane's drawings show this option. I use 1/8 ply on the inside and blind nuts and let the wing hold the tank in with no problems.
Lee
I know it might be too late but if you put the ply or carbon plate on the outside there is no room taken up inside. I think Dan Kane's drawings show this option. I use 1/8 ply on the inside and blind nuts and let the wing hold the tank in with no problems.
Lee
06-02-2004, 08:30 PM
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RE: PoleCat
Mine fits ok (I melted it slightly with a heat gun). I was worried about the tight fitting tank resting on the blind nuts, so I glued some 1/8" foam just over the ply inside.
It seems ok. I had a Hitec 85 on the cutoff, but since I was under weight, I swapped it out for a 225. Should put me just a hair under.
It seems ok. I had a Hitec 85 on the cutoff, but since I was under weight, I swapped it out for a 225. Should put me just a hair under.
06-03-2004, 08:56 AM
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RE: PoleCat
I think the idea behind the backwards tank is that during the turn the fuel is pushed to the back of the tank from centrifugal or centripetal force effectively increasing fuel pressure during the turn. This only works if the tank outlet is behind the pitch axes; (balance point) if the tank is in the nose
Centripetal Force??? Whaaaa........!! Realy? I mean Realy??
I did it as a joke, just to get people revved up!
I must claim credit for starting a trend though. I see that "Painted in the Mold" airplanes are being painted backwards.
Must be something to do with the Centrifluidicalgraviflomaskotapeostickyon manner in which the paint flows to the bottom of the mold.
Ed S
06-03-2004, 09:28 AM
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RE: PoleCat
A joke yea right, ok we will leave it at that. As for Centripetal, this Forum has spell check but not a dictionary that’s why I gave you a choice.
Call Mike, He needs a starter for the NATS
Call Mike, He needs a starter for the NATS
06-03-2004, 10:00 PM
#19
RE: PoleCat
There is no such thing as centrifugal force; the correct scientific term is "centripetal". Likewise a "kilogram" is not a unit of weight (force) but rather one of mass (matter). Therefore a mass (substance) doesn't weigh anything until acted upon by a gravitational field. Often the term "weight" is used to mean "mass" even though they are not the same. Splitting hairs? Perhaps.
In a similar vein: tank on the CG? I'll do it if it's convenient and doesn't have any adverse effects. Tanner's is installed toward the front as called out in the plans (because it was easy, and I'm lazy) with the lines facing forward (because it was easy, and I'm lazy). The popsickle stick taped to the tank to keep it from sliding forward may have had an adverse effect on overall handling but he didn't seem to notice. Mashing the back of the tank down with the wing didn't seem to bother him, either. Someday he may learn about all this in Physics class and then he'll have reason to be concerned.
For now he'll just have to take what he gets and LIKE IT!
I just couldn't resist!
P.S. Perhaps I should check Hepperle's site to see if he has anything to say about numerically optimized fuel tank placement. ()
In a similar vein: tank on the CG? I'll do it if it's convenient and doesn't have any adverse effects. Tanner's is installed toward the front as called out in the plans (because it was easy, and I'm lazy) with the lines facing forward (because it was easy, and I'm lazy). The popsickle stick taped to the tank to keep it from sliding forward may have had an adverse effect on overall handling but he didn't seem to notice. Mashing the back of the tank down with the wing didn't seem to bother him, either. Someday he may learn about all this in Physics class and then he'll have reason to be concerned.
For now he'll just have to take what he gets and LIKE IT!
I just couldn't resist!P.S. Perhaps I should check Hepperle's site to see if he has anything to say about numerically optimized fuel tank placement. (
)
06-06-2004, 10:19 AM
#20
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RE: PoleCat
ORIGINAL: daven
I added some tape to the second tank. It was kinda weird with Stubby tank, its made of a different material (clear). I thought I could get it back out, but it was a pain trying to get a handle on it (slippery).
The C.G. tank ended up working fine. It came out a bit nose heavy, so I needed to move everything back. Snug fit, but ok.
The whole plane is painted and cleared with KlassKote 2 part Epoxy paints. I know I've mentioned it before, but I really like this stuff. Plus they got a great shade of green. The paint is fuel proof as it is, but the clear helps smooth out the paint lines, and I could tell it needed the extra weight. If you liked the old Hobby Poxy paints, you will like the KlassKote, also their catalyst and reducer work in most cases with the Old Hobby Poxy. There are NO trim colors on the bottom, I left it solid white.
www.klasskote.com
I added some tape to the second tank. It was kinda weird with Stubby tank, its made of a different material (clear). I thought I could get it back out, but it was a pain trying to get a handle on it (slippery).
The C.G. tank ended up working fine. It came out a bit nose heavy, so I needed to move everything back. Snug fit, but ok.
The whole plane is painted and cleared with KlassKote 2 part Epoxy paints. I know I've mentioned it before, but I really like this stuff. Plus they got a great shade of green. The paint is fuel proof as it is, but the clear helps smooth out the paint lines, and I could tell it needed the extra weight. If you liked the old Hobby Poxy paints, you will like the KlassKote, also their catalyst and reducer work in most cases with the Old Hobby Poxy. There are NO trim colors on the bottom, I left it solid white.
www.klasskote.com
Curious, what amount are you thinning the klasskote paint? My experience with it shows it needs significant thinning. Works really good otherwise.
Michael
06-06-2004, 11:55 AM
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RE: PoleCat
I'm using 1 part Color to 1 part Catalyst to 1 part thinner which has been working very good for me. This is in a small 4 oz gravity fed HVLP detail gun running about 25 PSI.
06-06-2004, 01:33 PM
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RE: PoleCat
ORIGINAL: T-pacini
There is no such thing as centrifugal force; the correct scientific term is "centripetal". Likewise a "kilogram" is not a unit of weight (force) but rather one of mass (matter). Therefore a mass (substance) doesn't weigh anything until acted upon by a gravitational field. Often the term "weight" is used to mean "mass" even though they are not the same. Splitting hairs? Perhaps.
In a similar vein: tank on the CG? I'll do it if it's convenient and doesn't have any adverse affects. Tanner's is installed toward the front as called out in the plans (because it was easy, and I'm lazy) with the lines facing forward (because it was easy, and I'm lazy). The popsickle stick taped to the tank to keep it from sliding forward may have had an adverse effect on overall handling but he didn't seem to notice. Mashing the back of the tank down with the wing didn't seem to bother him, either. Someday he may learn about all this in Physics class and then he'll have reason to be concerned.
For now he'll just have to take what he gets and LIKE IT!
I just couldn't resist!
P.S. Perhaps I should check Hepperle's site to see if he has anything to say about numerically optimized fuel tank placement. ()
There is no such thing as centrifugal force; the correct scientific term is "centripetal". Likewise a "kilogram" is not a unit of weight (force) but rather one of mass (matter). Therefore a mass (substance) doesn't weigh anything until acted upon by a gravitational field. Often the term "weight" is used to mean "mass" even though they are not the same. Splitting hairs? Perhaps.
In a similar vein: tank on the CG? I'll do it if it's convenient and doesn't have any adverse affects. Tanner's is installed toward the front as called out in the plans (because it was easy, and I'm lazy) with the lines facing forward (because it was easy, and I'm lazy). The popsickle stick taped to the tank to keep it from sliding forward may have had an adverse effect on overall handling but he didn't seem to notice. Mashing the back of the tank down with the wing didn't seem to bother him, either. Someday he may learn about all this in Physics class and then he'll have reason to be concerned.
For now he'll just have to take what he gets and LIKE IT!
I just couldn't resist!P.S. Perhaps I should check Hepperle's site to see if he has anything to say about numerically optimized fuel tank placement. (
)
Well i feel like im back in school from all these big words being used that i have no idea what they mean, Mr.Pacini hmm sounds like a Physics teacher to me
...u got a long time before Tanner gets into that type of class...O by the way did that mean that u r takin all the good stuff for u and all the low end stuff for his airplanes??? if that is so than im sure there is a reasonable explanation y he is beating u...Cole
just messin round
06-06-2004, 11:16 PM
#23
RE: PoleCat
Exactly my point; sometimes ability means more than the equipment. He doesn't know any better so he just flies it like it's the best thing out there (even if it isn't). Seems to work for him!
06-07-2004, 08:25 AM
#24
RE: PoleCat
In a similar vein: tank on the CG? I'll do it if it's convenient and doesn't have any adverse affects.
"There is no such thing as gravity; the earth sucks!"
Wings Whiplash
Stan D.
