I'm making the Stinger again
 

A few years ago I had a terrible incident with the molds for the Stinger. I primed them prior to a lay up. I laid up the canopy/hatch one night. The next day I tried to remove it and it was stuck. I found out that the primer was stuck in the fuselage molds as well. I chiseled the cloth out of the hatch mold causing some damage. I found that I could then scrape the primer out with an artist’s spatula, but it was very slow going. I had orders for some kits, but I had to cancel them. Even with my son’s help, it took 2 weeks to remove the primer from the molds. And it left marks all over the mold surfaces. They would have to be sanded.

I got highly involved with Club 40 and my energy and time was put into that. I effectively stopped making fiberglass and composite parts.

Over the past year I’ve had a lot of visitors to my shop and they like seeing the molds and parts I have produced. I “used” to work for Wachovia. My contract was not renewed on 12/1, and finding a job in December is pretty tough.

Last week I got inspired to work on the Stinger molds. I have completely renovated my shop. It is now painted and carpeted. During the move, one of the wing templates was lost. But last week I made a new set of templates and got the FeatherCut working again. I got a couple of sets of cores cut.

The first part of last week was spent sanding the molds. I used wet or dry 3M Imperial paper in 400, 500, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, and 1500. All sanding was done wet. It’s still a mess sanding black epoxy. I then used 3M Marine Super Duty Compound and rubbed the molds out. I finished off with 3M Marine Finesse-It. This was the first time using the Finesse-It and I believe the last. Pulling the parts was pretty hard and I believe the Finesse-it blocked the wax from getting into the epoxy surface. Almost another disaster. The first hatch I made had to be coerced out with popsicle sticks. The second one did much better.

Yesterday I laid up a fuselage. I had thought about making a sacrificial part just to see if the molds would release. But I had taken extra precautions, so I went for it. It was a long lay-up. 3 hours from start to putting it in the hot box. It was fully joined in the mold. I had pinched the seam behind the hatch and had to mess with that a little causing one void, but it is fillable.

Getting the fuselage out was a bear. I had not primed the molds, so it was easy to see where it was not releasing. I used a rubber mallet to help the stuck spots. If I had primed it, I would not have know where to hit it. Hopefully it will be easier to pull parts in the future. I think the Finesse-It caused the difficulty.

I’m primarily producing these for my own use. However, I will produce them for others who may be interested in them.

I plan to run 2-4 Q-40 Sport races in the Carolinas in 2010. Q-40 Sport is just Q-40 with Thunder Tiger Pro 40 engines and any prop of 8” minimum diameter. Composites are allowed in Q-40 Sport.

I have a stab and wing plug made and primed for the Stinger. I’ve got to make the parting plates and make the molds. I hope to have some composite parts by summer.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

Keep me informed of your Q-40 Sport Race schedule.

I built a Napier awhile back but was not able to stir up much interest in the Amarillo Texas area.

Mine flies quite fast and makes an impression when speeding by.;)

An APC Sport 9x7 prop is a good place to start.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

Check your email and PM folder.

What kits are being offered in glass and foam for Q-40 sport?

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

I have the molds for Jerry Small's Swee' Pea, Dan Kane's T-tail Rivets, and Dan Kane's Miss Foxy Lady. I also have my Hughes H-1, but it is not approved.

The Swee' Pea is a predecessor to the new Swee Vee. It does not have a engine compartment cover, sub-fin, or bolt on tail. I do have molds for a composite tail and wing, but it is still a "builders" kit even in composite form. The tail has to be aligned and the wing has to be potted. I am going to make templates for foam cores for it this weekend using the original airfoil Jerry used. The composite wing was a slightly different airfoil.

The Hughes H-1 does not have a wing or stab saddle. So just about any wing can be fitted to it. Glue in some balsa/plywood doublers on the sides and make some hold-downs Quickie style. It was a "for fun" project. I carved (sanded) the plug out of pink foam.

I got Dan's molds about the time Club 40 was getting started. My focus was so much on that and the traveling pylon road show that I stopped producing any kits for anyone. 2008 was a good year with 3 races at Lowe's Motor Speedway, and we are going to have 4 Club 40 and Quickie 25 races in 2009 at LMS. Plus I'm looking for other venues to hold as many as 8 races this summer. But the equipment has been acquired and people are helping with the local races and efforts. My stable of Club 40 planes is well stocked, and while I need to get some Quickies together, I'm committed to getting some Q-40 Sport planes together to demo in 2009 and race in 2010.

Another thing is sponsorship. I've tried to sponsor some the the Club 40 racing around the country. While I love the Club 40 planes, I think Q-40 Sport is something that some of the Club 40 guys might want to try, especially as some of them are giving 424 a go, and I will probably sponsor some RCPRO Club 40 races with the Q-40 kits.

I plan to lay-up a Rivets on Friday. I have laid one up, but it was a test piece and was not joined in the mold. Vic Welland saw it and drooled over it. Vic, this one's for you, baby. ;)

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

I'm still drooling Don. [sm=tongue_smile.gif]
I think it would be perfect for my Speed Rally plane. That SS I have should stuff in there nicely.

Seth and I cut Q25 and 424 wings this afternoon. I'll most likely be skinning them tomorrow with West Systems epoxy.

You starting to feel better?

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

Vic,

Yes, I'm doing much better on the Remicade. I'm now in "maintenance mode" where I have infusions every 6 weeks. Just had one on 12/22. The one on 11/14 did not work real well, but stress over the Wachovia/Citibank/Wells Fargo situation may have had a factor in that. I had treatments on 8/22, 9/5, and 10/3. As you know I had to cancel the race on 9/20. Part of it was me not feeling well, part was logistical problems because of the constant raining at that time. I may have to go a double dose of Remicade however as it seems to be wearing off early and at $6800 per treatment, the insurance company has restrictions on what they will pay for.

The Rivets molds are waxed. I'm getting ready to cut cloth and do a lay-up.

I found my care package from Dan a couple of days ago and I have the wing templates, the plans, and the instruction manual.

Hopefully I'll have pictures to post on Saturday.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

Vic,

See the new thread for pictures of the Rivets.

Is that SS a JETT .40 Super Sport? If so, it will fit just fine. In fact I have just what you need.

A few years ago I (and a few others) got Dub Jett to make a mount that allows a 422/428 engine to be swapped with a TT Pro 40 with just a mount change. (At the least) the older SS had the 422/428 mounting pattern. This was for the Q-40 Sport effort.

If Dub doesn't have any in stock, I have a couple left. Kevin and Arch Adamisin may have some as well.

The mounts work well. Duane Gall put a TT Pro 40 in a Polecat that had been a 422 plane and did some testing.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

N

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

Looks like a great job on the first part, Don!:D I have never used the Finesse-It, I am guessing it is a final polishing compound? I have been using just plain old turtle wax rubbing compound followed by polishing compound to finish my molds, and it seems to work great for me, so far. I do wax and buff the molds with Partall#2 or Meguiar's 88 once a day for a week for the first pull, or just a couple of times after a few parts.

I found a new (to me, anyways...) polishing compound I am going to try called Meguiar's PlastX. It is for polishing out scratches and swirl marks on plastic headlight lens covers, so I am thinking it my be able to polish just a little past the regular polishing compounds from Turtle wax. I can let you know how it goes, if you are interested.

I see you use West System additives, are you using their resins also? I used to use the 105 - 206 for sheeting wings, but went to MGS for the longer working times. Are you using the 209 hardner for longer working times? Just curious how it is, if that is what you are using.

Again, sweet looking fuselage!! :D

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

This weekend while I was cutting Stinger cores, it occurred to me that even though the Feather Cut has been around a long time, a number of people have not seen one used. While it is no match for CNC equipment, it is much less expensive and is quite convenient for do-it-yourself types or for planes where the templates were made for hand cutting cores. It takes a job that normally two people would have to do, and makes it manageable for a single person. But I do look forward to the day when I have my own CNC system.

For Q-40 cores, I cut a 4’ x 8’ sheet of foam into twelve 32” x 12” rough cut blanks. Then I use a jig to cut the blanks to a precise size. Since some of my cores are longer than 24”, I’m not really wasting much foam this way, and the edges are nice and square. I use a 52” bow for cutting the blanks to size. For Quickie wings I cut the blanks to 48” x 10.5” and I just deal with the edges at the tips not always being perfect. Usually taking 1/4” off each end or more on one end and less on the other to keep the 47.5” does the trick.

I made a video of cutting a blank to size on the jig and then cutting the core. I posted it on YouTube so interested people could see the Feather Cut in action. The first part of the video where I cut the blank to size is not lighted well. But I did not feel like redoing it. I pulled out my halogen lights for the Feather Cut part and it is lighted much better.

See [link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtbYKgalYXk[/link] for the video. NOTE: You will enjoy the video more if you click on watch in high quality in the lower right corner of the video screen.

It also occurred to me that building a wing and stab are the hard parts of putting a Stinger together. So I came up with an idea. I’m going to offer a “Stinger Starter Kit” that includes 2 sets of foam cores and a full size set of plans for $30 shipped in the US. That way, you can build a wing or two and when or if you are ready, you can get the fuselage and put a plane together. The cost of the starter kit will be applied to the cost of the first kit if you build the wing and decide to finish the plane. So you and a buddy can build wings, or you can mess up a set of cores learning and still have a good wing. Or maybe you even get two good wings out of it.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

Some people have asked about pictures of a completed Stinger. Here is one of Duane Gall's. And here is a small view of the plans.

On the new cores I'm cutting, the trailing edge goes all the way to the rear of the wing. You can cut it off if you want to use a balsa trailing edge per the plans.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

Your video was very good! ;)


I may have to have you cut me some Q-500 cores.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

Here is a reserected Stinger from Duane..(Old stab and new fuse & wing)

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

Thanks Scott.

Believe it or not, I do a 3-4 hour lay-up using 105/206 (20 minute pot life). I typically mix 8-10 batches of epoxy per fuselage. One for the filler per side, then one plain for the 1.4 ounce and the 6 ounce layer. This is sometimes just barely enough for a full wet out and I have to mix another ounce. Then I do the other side. I then mix an ounce and put the doublers in. Then comes the big tedious trim. I do the parts that are flush with curved toenail trimming scissors. Then I mix two one ounce batches. One gets filler and goes in a syringe. The other is used to wet the overlapping tabs and recipient sides. Then I join the halves. I have to really hustle and there is no time for interruptions. But I put it in the hot box and 12 hours later I can pull it out. I do like using 105/209 for the much more relaxed time (50 minute pot life), but then I have to cook it for 36 to 48 hours before I feel comfortable pulling it out of the molds. In the winter I keep the shop at 65 degrees. That buys me more pot life and a lot more thin film time. 105/206 is a real challenge in the Summer unless I really crank the A/C down. Sometimes I run out of time and don't get my syringes cleaned out while the filler is not too hard for acetone to break it down. Then I have to clean them after it has hardened which is about a minute a piece job.

I would like to go to another epoxy system, but WEST works every time as long as you match the resin pump count to the hardener pump count. When I can get a dispenser or two I will try a new system.

Another thing is that WEST is available in Charlotte as well as most reasonable sized cities at boat shops. They will have 105 resin and 205 and 206 hardener on the shelves. Unfortunately they usually don't have 207 or 209.

I like the flexibility. I just got through glassing one side of a Quickie fuselage and one side of the tail surfaces with 105/207. It is in the hot box and I could probably add another side by bedtime. 207 sands really nicely. I haven't found much use for 205. It's to short of a pot life (12 minutes) to do much and then it takes 4 hours until you can handle it.

Of course 207 and 209 are expensive at $50+ for the matching size for a gallon of resin.

I make my surface coating resin for molds from 105/209 and let it cure outside of the hotbox. That way I don't get any bubbles. Then as I lay up layers on the mold after a few layers I start putting it in the hot box. So by the time the mold is finished, the 105/209 is Shore D hardness and the mold is ready.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

One note ... 206 does not have a lot of odor to it. 207 on the other hand has a very strong odor and unless you can handle the smell, it may not be appropriate. 206 is harder to sand as it is meant for laminating. 207 sands easily as it is primarily meant for finishing.

206 or 207 actually do work well for skinning wings if you can get the work done in time. Batching and getting it into "thin film" is the key to having enough time for skinning wings. Mix a pump (about an ounce) and spread it on the skins. When you need more, mix another ounce, and continue. Do this until you have all of the parts ready.

Batching like this is something you can do with laminating epoxies that you can't do with the hobby store variety. You can't batch Bob Smith 30 Minute epoxy like this. I don't know about their 2 hour epoxy.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

I didn't mean to take over your thread Don, I figured a couple of other pictures of the "Stinker" from different views might be helpful.
The plane flies very well with a TT40 and a 9X6 prop. With the slicker air-frame than a quickie,,,it would probably do better with a 8.5 X 7 without loading the engine too much. It actually has very good slow speed characteristics also and lands smoothly.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

I appreciate you posting them in the thread. And I really appreciate the comments about the performance with the TT Pro 40.

I had a Kangke F3D/30 (which was grandfathered into Q-40 Sport) with a TT Pro 40 and the best props on it were the 7.4 x 8 and 7.4 x 8.25 ... In terms of sport props, the APC 8x8 was actually pretty good but required smooth turns.

If you ever try the 7.4 props, make sure you change the rear bearing first as they will turn in the 18K+ range on the ground.

Feel free to post comments about building the Stinger. I would love to see pictures of how you did the aileron servo and the other radio gear as well as the wing hold downs and the hatch details.

As I mentioned, I have plugs made for the wing and stab and hope to make composite parts by the summer. But a lot more guys are building from foam again because of the 424 rules. I think two sets of cores and a set of plans for $30 is a good deal and maybe some people will give it a go. As I get the other Q-40's I have back in production, I'm going to offer Starter Kits for them also.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

Dido the excitement about using a Thunder Tiger Pro 40 in one of the Q-40 racers.

A fiberglass and foam Q-40 kit can be built for about the same cost as a 424 kit. I generally figure the kit with Jett motor mount can be delivered to your house for about $165. The wood, glass cloth, paint, and other materials run about $100 per airplane. This totals about $265 per airplane, which is the same as some 424 models.

I started a Proud Bird thread and I am currently going to build 2 models. One will be powered with a Thunder Tiger and the other with a conventional 422 motor (probably Jett).

Don - Keep up the work on the Stinger and other kits. They should be a lot of fun for not a lot of money.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

Thanks Scott. The fun of the Q-40 planes is that they get more speed than the 424 planes and they look cool. They really capture the attention of the sport flyers. With the TT Pro 40 they are still not into the "scary fast" range though.

Here is a photo of my epoxy pump station. One resin. Four different hardeners with different purposes. You can batch the same hardener during your work, but you can't mix hardeners. One pump of resin to one pump of hardener and it cures every time.

A lot of people try to clean up epoxy with alcohol. Acetone works much better. Don't get it on foam though. It can even clean epoxy off of most plastic coverings without hurting them. Use gloves whenever possible. Acetone will clean your brushes right up. At $1 for a bristle brush it starts to add up. $0.10 of acetone will save that brush.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

When I made the foam core cutting video, as well as when I was just cutting cores, it was difficult to find the nail holes. I came up with the idea of using a gel pen to mark the templates so I could find the holes easier. My wife had some gel pens. This made it much easier to get the nails into place.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

I'm going to lay-up a Stinger and a Swee' Pea today using 105/209 so I will have more time to work.

I've been surprised by how many views there have been of the foam core cutting video.

Would anyone be interested in a 10 or 20 minute video of a fuselage lay-up?

Let me know ASAP as I plan to start in an hour or two. I'm waxing final coats right now.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

I would Don ;)

Thanks,

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

Well, the Stinger is in the hot box.

I have 1 hour and 24 minutes of video from a 4+ hour lay-up. Doing the video added a little over an hour. Plus I was not moving as fast since I was using WEST 105/209.

I'm glad I used 105/209 on a fuselage I've been doing lately. I need to adjust some recipes for filler, and since I'm adding carbon fiber to the Swee' Pea I'm doing next I needed a little pre-experience with the different viscosity.

I'm going to just make a DVD of all of the video.

And I will edit out the (most) boring parts and do a multi-part YouTube edition. YouTube has a 10 minute max, and it takes 4-6 hours of elapsed computer time to spit out and upload a 10 minute high quality YouTube video. I will post links as parts are available.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

Don,
Instead of you tube, try hosting them at www.vimeo.com. You will be able to upload longer video, and the quality does not go completely to crap like you tube does, and it is free.

RE: I'm making the Stinger again
 

The first part of the video is online. It is just the introduction and the mixing of the filler, but it has information that you need to have for context for the rest of the parts. Plus you can see if you want to watch the rest of the videos

I will get additional parts online over the next couple of days.

See [link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_irXXEw-yo[/link]