Q-500 Racing Discuss AMA 428, AMA 424, and any other variants of Quickie 500 racing

Getting started in pylon?

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Old 12-15-2011, 03:38 PM
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dasquirrelisme
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Default Getting started in pylon?

I have been reading up on pylon racing and still not sure how to get started in it. I live in central Ohio and dont know of any clubs around here that race. What would be a beginning class?
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:11 PM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

You are in a hot bed for racing... The org is CAPS Tom Scott and a bunch of other guys can help locally, I know they race all over OH IN IL

Mark the national racing org www.NMPRA.org
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:27 PM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

If you haven't raced before, I would probably recommend you look into the club 40 class first. It is a little slower paced race than q-500. The plane we fly in club 40 is the low wing sky raider from world models, or the sanaloma laser sky raider that comes in a kit form but is basically the same plane as the world models arf version.
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:02 AM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

Check out the following websites:

[link=http://www.capsracing.com]www.capsracing.com[/link] - Website for CAPS

[link=http://www.q500424.com]www.q500424.com[/link] - Website for NMPRA District 5

The schedules are not yet firmed up and published on the websites but there will be CAPS races in Muncie, IN on May 26 & 27, 2012 and August 25 & 26, 2012 as well as the NATS in July.

There will be a CAPS race in Cincinnati on June 2 & 3, 2012.

There will be CAPS races in Bloomington, IL in late June and late September, exact dates need to be confirmed by the SIRS club.

There will be 424 - Q500, 426 - Q500 and 422 - Q40 at the 3 CAPS races in Muncie and Cincinnati. I am not sure if Tom will run EF1 in Cincinnati. Jay will run 424 and 426 at Bloomington.

There will be a practice day on Friday before all of the CAPS races and there will be guys there who will be glad to help.

I recommend you start in 424 with a Viper and a TT Pro .40 if you like ARFs. If you want to build there are plenty of good kits available. Check out the kits page on www.q500424.com. You can get in touch with me through the website if you want more information.


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Old 12-17-2011, 04:04 PM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

Thanks Bernie that is some good info. Looks like the 424 is a beginning class. What engines are they allowed to run in that class? I would like to run an Irvine 40 which the specs look like it would be legal but not for sure.
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Old 12-17-2011, 04:55 PM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

The Thunder Tiger Pro 40 is the only legal engine for the 424 class.

Typically the races furnish the propeller (APC 9" x 6") and the fuel (typically 15% nitro).

The 424 class Q-500 racer is a lot of fun without spending a lot of money.

The Great Planes Viper is the most popular of the models.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:09 PM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

I will be getting a used Viper and also getting a v vector kit to build. I am sure it takes awhile to be good enough to race so I will just practice for a season or 2. If anyone in central ohio wants to show me some pointers I would appreciate the help.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:04 PM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

If you can simply take off and fly left hand turns, you are ready to go racing. You will learn more by doing than you will ever find out staying away from contests and practicing by yourself.

And it is great fun.
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Old 12-21-2011, 05:55 AM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

Hi!
Agree fully!
The best way to learn how to fly pylon racing is to jump in and race!
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:20 AM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

Thanks for the boost of confidence. I wasnt sure if pylon racers had 20+ years experience before they started racing. This will be my 5th flying season and still learning something new everytime I go to the field. Last season I was racing my ultra sport with my buddys sig wonder and had a great time. An ultra sport is far from a pylon racer but you gotta start somewhere.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:45 AM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

Truth be told, many pylon racers have little experience other than flying pylon racers. It's a steep hill to climb, not much room at the top, but it's the climb that makes it worthwhile. I did actually have one guy racing before he could land.

Your local guys that race in your area are going to be happy to help you. Bring the airplane, engine, and support equipment. Try for a simple start box to carry the starter, plug lighter, transmitter, (maybe a tach) a couple of tools to tighten props and replace the glow plug. Bring a hardhat and hearing protector and the attitude that you are having fun and you are ready to go.
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:14 AM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

I have all that stuff but just need a smaller box for it. What kind of servos do you guys run in them? Im guessing Hitec 225. Does the throttle servo have to have the 4 screw downs or can you use a micro? Thanks for all the help guys.
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:28 PM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

I've used quite a few HS225's by Hitec. Other favorites of mine include JR 3021's or 3121's (older servos, but still nice).

The throttle servo can be something like an HS81/82/85 Hitec, S133 futaba, etc.

Quite a few guys are now using digital servos, things like the S9650 Futaba, the digital version that Hitec makes of the 225-sized, I think it's the 5425 or 5245, something like that.

I just got a hold of some Spektrum H5000 servos to try, they'll probably go in the next plane I build. These are very similar to the Align DS510 and Savox 1350 servos.

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Old 12-27-2011, 06:42 PM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

Will the 225's with nylon gears work?
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:24 PM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

yes, nylon gear 225's will work just fine for starting out.

I attended my first race about 3 months after I first flew a trainer on a buddy box, so it is not unheard of...

Midaired in my second heat, and have been hooked ever since...

The trick is, find some racers near you, and LISTEN to them, they will be happy to help you get started. Its a bit of a learning curve, but not bad if you have people that can help you.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:41 PM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

Can anybody tell me if you have to use a backplate on a TT Pro 40? If so where can you buy them?
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:50 PM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

The TTpro .40 comes with a backplate - lots of folks remove them to use the Jett or Nelson backplate mount. Others use the factory backplate and use a mount that (I believe) comes with the viper, which is simply a flat plate with holes in the right places.

If you've picked up a used engine, are you meaning it has no backplate at all?

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Old 01-12-2012, 01:53 PM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

A few places to look around:

www.jettengineering.com Dub Jett makes race engines and high performance sport engines, plus accessories like mounts, tanks, etc. His "crap trap" series of articles are good reading. I use Dub's square mount for my TTPro .40 on the 424 plane.

www.darrolcady.com Darrol supplies a lot of stuff to racers, his website has good info in it.

www.pspec.com Performance Specialties (Dave Shadel) - Dave did sell the Nelson engines, accessories. Not sure what's there now, but again, good information if you dig around his website.

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Old 01-12-2012, 01:57 PM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

Either the Jett 4 oz "bubble jett" tank or a Tettra 4 oz tank (Darrol has them, I think) would be what I'd recommend for 424 racing. You would need something like Dub's "tanker" (oversized syringe set up with fuel tubing) to fill them the easiest way, lots of folks use them.

You can use something like a Sullivan SS4 tank with a clunk and one vent line, we did for many years, but the Tettra or Jett tanks with the internal bladder give MUCH more consistent engine runs.

4 oz should be plenty for 424, you might want 5.25 or 6 if you move up to 426 eventually. More horsepower takes more fuel..

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Old 01-12-2012, 02:46 PM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

Thanks Fizz. The engine has the backplate. I meant the radial mount or whatever its called. I just got the engine in the mail today and going to read up on the modifications needed.
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:22 AM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

that backplate style mount isn't REQUIRED, it's just a pretty darned convenient way to mount the engine.

Leave the baffle in the muffler, it has to be there.

There really isn't much in the way of "modifications" that you can do. Changing gaskets is allowed, so folks often use different head shims to lower the head a bit. Check the rear bearing - if it has a plastic ball retainer in it, you're ok. If it's stamped steel, I would recommend changing the bearing for one that is plastic. With the 9/6 props, the steel ones have been known to come apart and ruin perfectly good engines.

Some folks back out the idle screw in the carb and secure it with a little loctite, only screwing it in far enough to stay put. Engine won't idle that way, but it will shut down when you want it to.

Some replace the long bolt through the muffler with either a larger bolt or a piece of 6-32 all-thread, etc. They've been known to break and you lose the back half of the muffler.

Most important - break it in well, practice a lot. That makes more difference than a few extra RPM. MUCH more difference.
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:57 AM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

I do all the things Fizz listed to the new engines, as well as remove the spring that pushes the carburetor barrel out. The barrel sometimes loosens and this spring will get ingested into the engine and it is toast (I know first hand!). All you have to do is loosen the barrel retaining screw, pull out the barrel and the spring (throw away the spring!) and put it back together with locktite on the retaining screw. You can replace the spring with a 3/32" slice of fuel tubing, but I have never worried about it. You will start and fly at full throttle, and only use the throttle to cut the engine off. The barrel retaining screw will keep it in place.

Best wishes,
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:34 PM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

Fizz, and all. Sorry to say I had a black plastic retainer fail on me at the fall Huntsville AL.
race. It CRUMBLED, and the pieces are hard enouch to score a piston. Bare in mind that
this was at Club 40 RPM's and not 424 RPM's! I lapped out the piston, but there was still a
significant score in the piston, and even though I will race it, it will never be as good as
new. I thought Thunder Tiger had fixed their rear bearing problem in the TT Pro 40/46
engines, but if I buy a new or used engine, I will definately replace the bearings, regardless
of which generation is in the engine. This was my experience, and I just wanted to share
everyone. Good luck, Greg
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Old 01-14-2012, 01:42 AM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

There is an informative thread about the Thunder Tiger Pro 40, cleaning it, and backplate mounts at [link=http://www.rcpro.org/net/ThreadView.aspx?threadid=504]424 New Engine Preparation[/link]. It was written by Ed Smith who has a lot of experience with racing engines.

If you are pulling the thrust washer off of a used TT Pro 40 and have any trouble, see my video at [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUGrG9MVbo4]Pulling a Thrust Washer[/link]. I don't sell anything anymore.

I've got to change the bearing in a TT Pro 40 and will probably do a video.
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Old 01-18-2012, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: Getting started in pylon?

Is there any decent flat back plate mounts for the TT pro 40? The viper one looks like a POS and the but didnt want to pay a fortune. It dont have to fit in the crankcase. I have a nice one but the bolt pattern is different.
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