Q-500 Racing Discuss AMA 428, AMA 424, and any other variants of Quickie 500 racing

Making an S8064 composite wing mold

Reply

Old 12-07-2014, 04:56 AM
  #1  
DonStegall
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
DonStegall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: MonroeNorth Carolina
Posts: 1,840
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Making an S8064 composite wing mold

I had made a plug for the S8064 wing back in 2009. It is primed and needs final sanding. It had a lot of coats of primer to get out the imperfections.

My Dad and I built the parting plate in 2012. it is made from MDF and fits the wing pretty well. The gaps around the edges should be easy to get filled properly. This is a monster at over 100 pounds. I had to use handtrucks to take it down from the shop to the garage. But it is set up in the garage and I will put primer on it today.

This wing should be compatible with any fuselage that fits the Viper 500 wing.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0198.JPG
Views:	159
Size:	1.65 MB
ID:	2052826   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0199.JPG
Views:	117
Size:	1.72 MB
ID:	2052827   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0261.JPG
Views:	136
Size:	2.19 MB
ID:	2052828   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0262.JPG
Views:	159
Size:	2.03 MB
ID:	2052829  
DonStegall is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2014, 08:46 PM
  #2  
wkevinm
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 273
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Hi Don

I am watching with interest since I recently started to build a composite wing as well. I am still working the plug, mine is a MH17 to be used in 426. Why such a heavy parting board?

Kevin M.
wkevinm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 12:23 AM
  #3  
DonStegall
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
DonStegall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: MonroeNorth Carolina
Posts: 1,840
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Originally Posted by wkevinm View Post
Hi Don

I am watching with interest since I recently started to build a composite wing as well. I am still working the plug, mine is a MH17 to be used in 426. Why such a heavy parting board?

Kevin M.
Kevin,

The MH17 is one of the cores I cut. Bob Harris was using it on a couple of his Quickies called the HoleShot and the BuckShot. Those were fast planes and people who have gotten the MH17 from me like it. So good luck on your project.

Did one real interesting thing with the MH17. Gary James was working with airfoils and created a symmetrical version of the MH17 I called MH17SYM. I cut separate cores with the MH17 at the root and the MH17SYM with 1 degree of washout on the tips and sheeted it. The guy that got the wing loved it.

My parting plate is actually 4 layers of 3/4" MDF. It doesn't look like it in the picture but the pieces on the bottom are two layers thick. The main plate was put on a flat surface, then the bottom pieces were glued and screwed. MDF that is 3" thick is very stable unless it gets moisture.

I will be making a video series from plug to completed composite wing. So we'll see if it makes it to the finish line.

I had a blast at Old Julian Airport on 11/30/14. It was a lot of fun flying at a dedicated three pole facility and the facility is going to get even better. It's only 2 hours from me. Jim Katz and Mike Langlois have done a fine job on the race equipment and are great guys. I got a great compliment from Mike Langlois. He said that it was his participation in Club 40 at my Charlotte Motor Speedway races in 2008-2009 that got him hooked on racing and inspired him to do the airfield. I was already making the tail molds, and decided to bring this project back to life as I like the S8064 airfoil.

Mike and Jimmy asked if Q40 and 426 pilots could race in Club 40 at the NATS. Bob Petrinec said we are not going to limit entries in 424, and I think I asked Dan Kane Jr about it also. So get you a Sky Raider Mach II or LA Racer 40 and join us in the 2 pole sport lane on Friday 7/10/15 in Muncie..

Last edited by DonStegall; 12-08-2014 at 02:55 AM.
DonStegall is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2014, 08:08 PM
  #4  
Kevin Matney
My Feedback: (1)
 
Kevin Matney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Erie, MI
Posts: 518
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default S8064 wing

Gary did a dwg of what he liked of this wing.
But he never had me cut it. I have a cut file for the top and bottom.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	s8064x wing.jpg
Views:	117
Size:	190.1 KB
ID:	2055740  
Kevin Matney is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 12:16 PM
  #5  
GSJames
 
GSJames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Weatherford, TX
Posts: 579
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Originally Posted by Kevin Matney View Post
Gary did a dwg of what he liked of this wing.
But he never had me cut it. I have a cut file for the top and bottom.
I'd be happy to make the files for any wing that you need. Any combination of airfoils, any planform. Just let me know. I can knock those things out pretty quickly. It's fuselages with expanding radius wing fillets that give me fits...
GSJames is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2014, 01:10 PM
  #6  
DonStegall
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
DonStegall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: MonroeNorth Carolina
Posts: 1,840
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

My plug and parting plate are only a week or so from being ready to make molds from. This wing hasn't been in high demand by the composite loving crowd, but I decided to finish the project even if I'm the only person who uses them.
DonStegall is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 06:12 AM
  #7  
wkevinm
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 273
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Don

Any pictures of how you are preparing the parting plate? I have made fuse plugs and molds before, but will be doing my first wing in a long time, (did a F1 wing in the late 80's early 90's) and am curious about parting plate strategies.

Some builders end the parting plate at the trailing edge with a vertical flange while others use a more conventional approach, as I see yours does. What are the advantages or disadvantages of the vertical flange?

Kevin
wkevinm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 10:33 AM
  #8  
DonStegall
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
DonStegall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: MonroeNorth Carolina
Posts: 1,840
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Originally Posted by wkevinm View Post
Don

Any pictures of how you are preparing the parting plate? I have made fuse plugs and molds before, but will be doing my first wing in a long time, (did a F1 wing in the late 80's early 90's) and am curious about parting plate strategies.
Kevin,

I was focused on painting the tail plug and parting plate last weekend and part of this week. But last weekend I got enough stuff out of the way in the garage to get set up to paint. I had to use hand trucks to get the parting plate downstairs.

I started to prime, then I remembered part of the plan (from 2012). I use modeling clay to seal the parting plate to the plug. And with 3/4" around the perimeter, it would take quite a bit of clay to seal those edges. Not pictured are some foam supports I made to hold the plug in place at the right height. I'm going to use 1/4" x 1/4" balsa stacked 1/2" tall on the leading edge. And I will do the same on the trailing edge. May add some 1/8" x 1/4". I have to cut pieces for the tips, so I'm going to take the scroll saw down to the garage to cut those pieces. Will be doing that tomorrow and I will also start video taping when I do it. If I CA the pieces in place, I should be able to prime and paint this week. This thing is only going back upstairs after the plug is mounted and the parting film is sprayed on.

Some builders end the parting plate at the trailing edge with a vertical flange while others use a more conventional approach, as I see yours does. What are the advantages or disadvantages of the vertical flange?

Kevin
I'm doing this one with the full parting plate. The wing was actually a very straight one and I did not try to reshape the trailing edge. I had a conversation with Dr. Michael Selig and he said that the trailing edge would be better left alone in shape than to try to sharpen it. I may sharpen the edge by grinding and sanding the trailing edge of the molds if it works out I can do that. I put extra surface coat on the trailing edges so I don't cut into cloth.

I have not made a set of molds with the vertical edge, but some people really like them. I think they work better on CNC cut aluminum molds than on fiberglass molds. Clamping the rear is an issue. You have to have the right clamps and you have to be careful about how tight those clamps are, especially with fiberglass molds. The way I'm doing this one, you do have the cloth adding a little thickness to the trailing edge and the part.

I will use a fair amount of 50K carbon fiber tow in my molds. Done the right way, it makes the molds incredibly strong. And it is a LOT cheaper than carbon fiber cloth or roving.

I talked to Dr. Selig about the benefits of CNC cutting versus the plug. Basically he said that things like vinyl graphics and lettering disturb the airflow more than minor deviations from perfection of the airfoil. In fact, Dr. Martin Hepperle has information on his site about the use of turbulators to increase the laminar flow. He talks about things like paint lines and plastic coverings if you look in the right places.

I will be happy if I can make some wings I can use. But like all the molds I make, I will make males from the original females before they are prepped so I can make additional sets of molds if needed. And if the molds and parts come out decent, I will probably sell them.

I have the original molds that Norm Johnson made for Jerry Small's Swee' Pea if you want to see some pictures of those. The bottom has a big iron frame to keep them straight.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0291.JPG
Views:	92
Size:	2.32 MB
ID:	2056482   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0292.JPG
Views:	76
Size:	2.38 MB
ID:	2056483  

Last edited by DonStegall; 12-20-2014 at 10:49 AM. Reason: added links
DonStegall is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 03:02 PM
  #9  
DonStegall
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
DonStegall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: MonroeNorth Carolina
Posts: 1,840
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Here is a Q40 wing (Jerry Small Swee' Pea) I made in molds using the full flange. The trailing edge is about 0.033" to 0.038" and that is because I had to trim it to the outline trim marks. It was only 0.010" or so before trimming.

These are massive molds and as you can see, steel was used to keep them straight.

The integral belly pan was apparently an idea that didn't work out.

I'm getting ready to put this plane together. Can't wait to get a Q40 back in the air.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0293.JPG
Views:	105
Size:	1.66 MB
ID:	2056547   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0294.JPG
Views:	99
Size:	1.69 MB
ID:	2056548   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0295.JPG
Views:	101
Size:	1.63 MB
ID:	2056549   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0296.JPG
Views:	92
Size:	1.73 MB
ID:	2056550   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0297.JPG
Views:	113
Size:	1.71 MB
ID:	2056551   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0298.JPG
Views:	115
Size:	1.65 MB
ID:	2056552  
DonStegall is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 08:52 PM
  #10  
wkevinm
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 273
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Don

Thanks for the update. I will be looking forward to future updates, I have set my own q500 wing project aside for the time being to get another Q40 ready for Phoenix in February.

Kevin
wkevinm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 03:40 AM
  #11  
DonStegall
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
DonStegall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: MonroeNorth Carolina
Posts: 1,840
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Kevin,

If your plug is nice and you are apprehensive about making the molds, we may be able to work something out. Especially if I can make male molds and sell molds and wings.
DonStegall is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 07:40 AM
  #12  
wkevinm
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 273
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Don

I am not apprehensive about making the mold, more about prioritizing time. I fly Q40 in February and Q500 not until May. I have most of the supplies for the mold and I recently built a flat building table to work on for cutting and molding. The table was made of plywood top and bottom with a lattice work between to hold it rigid.

Kevin

Last edited by wkevinm; 12-21-2014 at 08:05 AM.
wkevinm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2015, 02:51 AM
  #13  
Bozarth
My Feedback: (15)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 1,297
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Alright, so who is going to sell us a few of these new wings????!!!!!!

Kurt
Bozarth is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2015, 07:25 AM
  #14  
DonStegall
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
DonStegall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: MonroeNorth Carolina
Posts: 1,840
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Originally Posted by Bozarth View Post
Alright, so who is going to sell us a few of these new wings????!!!!!!

Kurt
I should be making the S8064 by May. I have some projects like the 66-012 wing tips that have to get done ASAP.

And I have to get some planes together for the NATS and start practicing.

I'm making progress on getting the garage completely cleaned out so I can get the trailer back in and be able to work on the parting plate and plug finishing.

I have a lot of work to do on the AirBorne Models Showcase. I've completely overhauled the Sky Raider Mach II and LA Racer 40 pages and I'm working on the P-51 G.S. pages.
DonStegall is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2015, 01:06 PM
  #15  
GSJames
 
GSJames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Weatherford, TX
Posts: 579
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I'm very interested in purchasing some of these S8064 wings. Let me know when they are ready for purchase.
GSJames is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2015, 07:03 AM
  #16  
DonStegall
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
DonStegall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: MonroeNorth Carolina
Posts: 1,840
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Originally Posted by GSJames View Post
I'm very interested in purchasing some of these S8064 wings. Let me know when they are ready for purchase.
Gary,

I hope to get the garage cleaned up the rest of the way over the next two weeks. Depends on work and the weather. Yesterday was nice outside, but I had a migraine and it took away one of my weekend days.

I decided that I have to do this one in the garage. It is just took much work and risk to try to move the parting plate upstairs and downstairs. I'm going to have to heat the garage as the primer I use and the paint don't really like cold weather.

I will be putting the Venom back into production at least by the time the wing is done. And I should have the new composite tail molds made by then. The goal is to be able to fly a Venom with the wing at the 2015 NATS.

Work has had me slammed for the last couple of weeks. We had a software release on 1/23 and I was up from 8:30 am to 12:30 am on Saturday, and then back onto validation on Saturday at 9:00.
DonStegall is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service