Composite Wing
06-30-2004, 11:04 AM
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Composite Wing
Just got word that my Seeker wing molds have been started. Knowing the guy making them, I don't expect him to take to long to finish. They will be conventional molds built from a plug not CNC cut.
My question is, I have virtually NO experience in laying up a Q500 wing or anything else for that matter in a mold before. I've seen the insides of quite a few composite wings (No wisecracks here), but will pretty much be winging it.
Couple of questions:
1. 1/16" Balsa or that white foam stuff (can't remember the name)? I was thinking balsa would be easier, but I am not sure.
2. For the layers, I was thinking 3/4 oz cloth on the outside, the 1/16" balsa sandwich, and 1 1/2 oz cloth on the inside. Is this enough? Too much?
3. Should I even bother trying to put paint in the mold on the first few, or should I wait until I get something that will be useable?? Maybe just put primer in the mold to help fill the weave ??
4. On the end grain balsa spar, how much, and what size carbon fiber should I use (top and bottom).
5. Should I lay up both halves seperately, vacumm, let dry, and then add the components and join? Or can this all be done in one process?
Thats all I got off the top of my head. If you'd rather not share this info on the forum, your welcome to email me.
[email protected]
Thanks in Advance.
My question is, I have virtually NO experience in laying up a Q500 wing or anything else for that matter in a mold before. I've seen the insides of quite a few composite wings (No wisecracks here), but will pretty much be winging it.
Couple of questions:
1. 1/16" Balsa or that white foam stuff (can't remember the name)? I was thinking balsa would be easier, but I am not sure.
2. For the layers, I was thinking 3/4 oz cloth on the outside, the 1/16" balsa sandwich, and 1 1/2 oz cloth on the inside. Is this enough? Too much?
3. Should I even bother trying to put paint in the mold on the first few, or should I wait until I get something that will be useable?? Maybe just put primer in the mold to help fill the weave ??
4. On the end grain balsa spar, how much, and what size carbon fiber should I use (top and bottom).
5. Should I lay up both halves seperately, vacumm, let dry, and then add the components and join? Or can this all be done in one process?
Thats all I got off the top of my head. If you'd rather not share this info on the forum, your welcome to email me.
[email protected]
Thanks in Advance.
06-30-2004, 11:58 AM
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RE: Composite Wing
1. On our Proud Bird, Jim Allen and myself use 1/20 balsa. I'm not sure if Terrence uses 1/20 or 1/16 on the Neme-Q's. You can also use Rohacell, but I'm not sure what thickness, check with Chuck Bridge.
2. We use 1.4 glass on the outside, and 3/4 glass on the inside, with some extra on the outside at the center section.
3. On the first one, I would shoot one coat of your paint. It may surprise you how well it comes out, and primer is just too heavy. By not painting at all, you'll guarantee it will take a lot of filling due to pinholes...
4. I believe Chuck uses one piece if .007 carbon top and bottom, and an additional piece on the top in the middle, but not totally sure. Not sure what Terrence is doing, check with either of them.
5. Seperate processes. You have to let the skins cure before you pull them out of the bag and add the internal structure. The biggest thing is that with most paints, you typically have to lay the skins up within about 24 hours, or the resin doesn't stick to the paint. Some paints you can wait longer, others you have to do it quicker.
GS
2. We use 1.4 glass on the outside, and 3/4 glass on the inside, with some extra on the outside at the center section.
3. On the first one, I would shoot one coat of your paint. It may surprise you how well it comes out, and primer is just too heavy. By not painting at all, you'll guarantee it will take a lot of filling due to pinholes...
4. I believe Chuck uses one piece if .007 carbon top and bottom, and an additional piece on the top in the middle, but not totally sure. Not sure what Terrence is doing, check with either of them.
5. Seperate processes. You have to let the skins cure before you pull them out of the bag and add the internal structure. The biggest thing is that with most paints, you typically have to lay the skins up within about 24 hours, or the resin doesn't stick to the paint. Some paints you can wait longer, others you have to do it quicker.
GS
06-30-2004, 01:57 PM
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RE: Composite Wing
I've been told 1.5 mm rohacell.
Another question. Not sure if I should use any ribs. Any ideas on how may, and if they are necessary?
I will be using KlassKote Epoxy paint, so I'll try shooting with white to see how it works. Paint Friday night, and lay up the mold on Saturday.
Another question. Not sure if I should use any ribs. Any ideas on how may, and if they are necessary?
I will be using KlassKote Epoxy paint, so I'll try shooting with white to see how it works. Paint Friday night, and lay up the mold on Saturday.
06-30-2004, 03:24 PM
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RE: Composite Wing
Dave:
Most everyone has gone to balsa skins instead of Rohacell. I know Lyle’s wing builder just switched and Bruce, Terrance, Jerry’s wing guy and Harold already use balsa. I don’t know about Chuck but I suspect once he runs out of Rohacell he will switch. Apparently good Rohacell is getting even more expensive (a lot more than balsa) and hard to come by. From my view, as one who does a lot of patching, a wing with Rohacell is a little easier to repair because the damage is more localized where as balsa tends to split grain wise for a considerable distance. Rohacell, however, is more prone to hanger rash (dents).
Barry
Most everyone has gone to balsa skins instead of Rohacell. I know Lyle’s wing builder just switched and Bruce, Terrance, Jerry’s wing guy and Harold already use balsa. I don’t know about Chuck but I suspect once he runs out of Rohacell he will switch. Apparently good Rohacell is getting even more expensive (a lot more than balsa) and hard to come by. From my view, as one who does a lot of patching, a wing with Rohacell is a little easier to repair because the damage is more localized where as balsa tends to split grain wise for a considerable distance. Rohacell, however, is more prone to hanger rash (dents).
Barry
06-30-2004, 03:25 PM
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RE: Composite Wing
We don't use any ribs in the Proud Bird. Terrence uses a couple of foam ones in the Neme-Q, and I believe Chuck also does on the Vortex.
06-30-2004, 04:10 PM
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RE: Composite Wing
I use one foam rib. It goes the full length. 
Actually, Dave, I might make one suggestion, although these other guys obviously have taken the clamshell wing technique far beyond anything I've tried. You might consider building in a 2" or 3" wide foam "rib" or core section at the tip, so that after the wing is completed, you can saw & sand through the bottom sheeting and shape the foam into one of those cool sheared Hoerner tips. (Think Bird of Prey.) Once the foam is carved to shape and sanded smooth, you can cover it with a couple of layers of light (2-oz.) glass cloth.
Prediction: Scattered brain storms ...
Actually, Dave, I might make one suggestion, although these other guys obviously have taken the clamshell wing technique far beyond anything I've tried. You might consider building in a 2" or 3" wide foam "rib" or core section at the tip, so that after the wing is completed, you can saw & sand through the bottom sheeting and shape the foam into one of those cool sheared Hoerner tips. (Think Bird of Prey.) Once the foam is carved to shape and sanded smooth, you can cover it with a couple of layers of light (2-oz.) glass cloth.
Prediction: Scattered brain storms ...
