P. Johnson

My Feedback: (1)

Dan, You know my stance on Q40 sport. it was submited as an "alternative" to 422, NOT a replacement. It will utilise the engines already in use for 424 and and allow some of the older airframes from 422 that still use balsa sheeted foam core wings. A chance to have a cool looking plane with sport equipment that would be a little faster than 424. it was introduced as any kind of entry level event and probably doesnt even need to be an AMA event as of yet. Heck, I don't think there as even been any races scheduled for it.

skull1971

Hi Dan, I'm Eric DeSardi, no I did not fly 428 in the 2007 season, but I am in 2008. What got me upset, is the fact that six days after we got a NEW Jett 428 engine we learn of all these proposed rule changes. After a long phone call to our Dist 8 vp. (Thank you Dennis) did we learn that the new rules will not take affect till the 2009 season.

I started this thread, and at the time I wanted to know what was going on, since then it has kinda turned to a "How to get new people interested." Maybe those of you that know all the info should make it where everyone can see it, instead of us fighting and searching for every scrap we can get. This is one of the biggest problem there is, if you not in the "Old Crew," then your just a P.O.S. outsider.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

Not a 428 racer.

Great post Eric!

scausey

My Feedback: (2)

I think you full of if..... I just started racing within the last year and half and I am dedicated enough to look past my ***** and learn from everyone I come across to race, because that is what I WANT to do .... I dont want to sit and bad mouth the cost of anything or say its too fast... I call you the waaambulance if you want me to.

If you have the ability to talk to someone, there is always any of the top pilots more than willing to help promote this sport with all their knowledge, hell what little I know, I would help. But all this crap about cost and speed and what ever can be thought is crazy .... read the post by Randy B.

http://www.nmpra.org/

And another thing, I just received the NMPRA Newletter, and most of the people that complain..... I dont see their names on any of the this that support racing...

burgster

My Feedback: (2)

Dan,
I raced 428 in "07. Maybe you were talking about me in your "only recognize two people" comment or maybe not. I actually beat you in a heat race at the nats this past year. I know that you don't know me, and that's cool. I did contact Ernie Nikodem to discuss my feelings on some of the rule proposals, instead of just yapping about it here. Ernie did say that I was the only one to contact him about the proposals. This slow down thing is such a doubled edged sword. MY feelings are simple. If the rules are changed in any way where i have to spend more money on engine stuff then i am going to sell what I have and just fly 422. What I mean by engine stuff is, pipes, smaller venturis, new cheaper engine, etc. I was just starting to figure out my new LS while practicing and I just bought a profi. If those engines are made illegal then I am out. That is why it's a doulbe edged sword. The rule changes are possibly going to piss off the people who have been supporting the event in the past, to try and gain the support of people that we don't know are even there. That is my opinion and I am sticking with it.

For anyone who is thinking 428 is too fast from a newer racer,

If you think that 428 is too fast you have probably never flown one. The ironic thing is they fly way better than 424 planes. Smooth and on rails. Because of this I have actually stopped flying 424. Ed Smith got me hooked three years ago and I love it. The only thing that I had ever flown was a scat cat with a TT 40 on it. He let me fly his 428 plane and it was too cool for words. Now I try and go to as many races that work and money will allow, which is only a couple a year. I do it because I love it. When I stop loving it and the adrenaline rush is no longer there then i will find something else to do. By going slower, that will ruin MY fun. You know how it is, when you are racing they feel like they are dragging an anchor. Going 140-145 mph is not going to get the rush I need to drive nine hours to a race. Not only will it be slower, but I will have to spend more money to go slower (pipes, venturis, etc). How ironic is that? My only advice to people out there that have not flown one of these planes and are intimidated by their speed is, go get a used motor for $150 and put it on a viper and fly it. I have two that I will sell. You will be suprised and if you are like me, you will love it! If money allows go to the nats and race. The '06 nats was my very first 428 contest. It is great time and everyone that I have run into is really cool. This past year was my second time going and it was a blast. Racing during the day and beer in the evening. What else can you ask for? Not only that, but you will become better pilots and learn a ton. '06 my best time at the nats was a 1:16, in '07 it was a 1:10. The competetion is stiff and if you are competetive it will bring out the best in you. If you can handle 424 then you can handle 428. So come race with us!

Just my .02 (I always wanted to put that in a post)

Peace out,
Jeff

skull1971

Scausey, If your gonna quote me please use the whole thing, not just what might make me look bad. Plus you need to read all my posts, and others to get the big picture. I'm not crying, just would have been upset to find we bought equipment that we can't run, in 2008.

As far as my comment about info, I still haven't had anyone from the NMPRA site contact me yet, so in my eyes that prooves my point. As far as people, Yes there are people out there that will help, Dub Jett, has been one of the most helpful. Dennis Cranfill has also been great, he invited us out to the last race in Houston. As his guest we got to go everywhere we wanted and see the racing from every angle. There are others, but it's a very small few compaired to the number of people in racing.

Oh and as far as the speed, I have flown my 428, and it was a blast!!!! but it could still be a little faster.

kane

My question regarding identifying yourself referred nobody including their real names. Eric, the attitude about the "Old Crew" and "P.O.S." Is unfounded and certainly not what I am about nor do I wish to be associated with that attitude. ASK me any question you wish I will be more than happy to answer it.

Jeff, thank you for beating me at the NATS! Yours and my opinions may not be so different.

Pete, your position is noted as it was before. I am not implying that it will replace 422. I am simply pointing out that new events are slower and cheaper why should it be so far fetched that the current events move in that direction. Again, I want to keep my personal opinions to myself. AT this point we as a whole need to decide whether or not to approve or reject these proposals. If enough people feel strongly in one direction they need to speak to their AMA district contest board member and voice their opinion.

Dan

DMyer

My Feedback: (2)

A very good observation... the main reason I, or no-one else from my area did not race 428 is that there are simply not enough pilots to hold an event. We sanctioned several 428 races this year and frankly, they just didn't happen mainly because there simply are few if any entries. I cannot even get motivated enough to build another 428 because frankly, racing against 3 or 4 others is not too much fun for such an investment in time, energy and money. My club was a real hotbed of racing in the east going all the way back to the days of Telford and Violett... so we don't take it lightly.

I stand by my statements... prove me wrong. I sincerely wish the remaining 428 pilots the best as you have all the odds stacked against you reviving this particular event, but the fact is, the time to have acted was years ago. The pilots that left are gone and the vast majority of new pilots are not interested as times and technology radically change our hobby. I personally do not intend to ever CD a pylon event again as it is simply too much work involved for too few fliers.

Dan

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

Eric.. Who do you want to contact you? We have elected officials that run the NMPRA, but they don't decide on rules. I'm thinking you want someone like Dan Kane from the AMA Contest Board to contact you? yes? no? The contest board members names are readily available on the AMA website. They don't list there phone numbers, only there addresses. However, I'm sure you can post something on NMRPA.ORG, asking for an email address or phone number for your elected board member for you district. It looks like Mike Helsel is your guy from Texas. He is a great guy, and he would certainly give up 1/2 hour of his time to talk with you. I'd say, be pro-active and contact him. From my experience, sitting back and waiting for someone to contact you...is going to result in you sitting a while. All you can do is bend his ear on your positions concerning the proposed rules, then hope he votes your way. That may suck, but that's the way it's set up.

Now.. I'm no different than most of you guys. I DON'T want to be forced to spend more money changing, engines, planes, or what ever because of some new rule that "could" possibly pass. However, I'd do what I suggested in a thread on NMPRA.ORG... I'd EBay the stuff that I was not able to use anymore. Take the hit, and slowly buy what I need to race 428 and 422. Why you ask.. Because I love to race this style of racing.

If RC Pylon racing was too much for my budget, I'd never be so bold to suggest they change their rules to fit me. I can't be that important!! If I was, I'd have NASCAR change there rules so I could race my stock Honda with them.

The biggest problem I see, is people are lazy as hell. My club members would rather sit around and eat pizza, talking about doing touch and goes. And as much as you try to sell them the "racing" bug, they have no interest. The idea of being active, getting out from behind their TV or PC.. is out of the question. People will always choose there priorities, you can't force people to be competitive. And you can't force them to have a burning desire to race RC planes.

I here you guys talk about expensive planes. BULL... get off your couch (like my dad and I did), cut your own foam cores, get a copy of the "black-jack" Q500 plans.. and build your own plane. It's a square box, not hard. You can do that for $50 bucks. If you are too lazy to do that (god forbid).. buy a "woodie" kit from someone (there is a list of guys that have wood kits) and build that. Why should something be made available for RTF for $150 bucks? There are websites out there to even teach you how to do molds, in the event you feel it needed to have composite style planes. Material costs on a composite quickee is only about $125 bucks. BUT you have to be willing to work at it. And there are tons of people that will help you…

Randy Bridge

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

Pylon Racing Contest Board Members. These are the guys from each District that vote on whether or not a "proposed" rule should be sent on for final vote. (correct me if I'm wrong Dan)

Eric - I'm working on locating a current email for Mike Helsel. When I get it, I'll post it for you.

I: Pete Reed, 416 Gilmore Pond Rd., Jaffrey NH 03452
II: Ernest Nikodem, 407 Willow St., Lockport NY 14094
III: Tom Scott, 10073 Spring Beauty Ln., Cincinnati OH 45231
IV: Steve Baker, 12215 Malin Ln., Bowie MD 20715
V: Bob Brogdon, 5251 Hermitage Dr., Powder Springs GA 30073
VI: Dan Kane Jr., 1703 W. Grove St., Arlington Heights IL 60005
VII: Mike Condon, 9335 Eastwind Dr., Livonia MI 48150-4521
VIII: Mike Helsel, 7 Stillmeadow, Round Rock TX 78664
IX: Lyle Larson, HC 80 Box 475, Piedmont SD 57769
X: James Allen, 7701 E. Culver, Mesa AZ 85207
XI: Tom Strom, 1420 SW 160th, Seattle WA 98116

Randy Bridge

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

Excellent point. I guess it must be too many soft drinks.

They have worked hard to remove competitiveness from kids today in the "everyone must win and be special society". Most people are unable to lose and enjoy it long enough to learn how to win.

Exactly.

DMyer

My Feedback: (2)

I envy you guys that still have enough pilots to hold local races. IMHO I would hold on tight and savor every local 428 race you can as long as you can. But you hit the nail on the head about people... they are lazy and competing in pylon racing requires a significant amount of time, energy and money(can be optional with even more time invested). There are simply too many other attractive RC and non-RC options these days to convince someone to try RC racing because it is the most fun possible with your clothes on! The sport of RC flying is rapidly evolving as giant scale, electric and even jet turbine technology is taking center stage and all the attention that demands. I cannot compete with a 428 unless I want to drive over 7-10 hours or fly somewhere... I, and most others, simply cannot realistically do that. I can go to dozens of Giant scale, electric, IMAC etc. events within a couple hours drive time. You and a few others may be lucky enough to live somewhere that can support Pylon racing without having to travel long distances to the national events, but you may be the exception. IMO I fear pylon racing is in an untenable long term position and is at risk of joining many of the older events that can only be seen at the NATS. My best wishes to those that are trying to keep the event alive and even grow it.

Dan

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

I hear ya Dan. Don't envy us Florida guys much. We have very few guys that fly 428 racing, but enough to hold races. Places to fly are a big issue down here. Thusly, most of my personal racing involves getting on a plane traveling. All my club members want to fly is, foamies, heli's, and any other form of RC that doesn't take the effort to build. I completely have to understand that too... We all see where the RC hobby has lead us.

thanks for the comments back.

Randy Bridge

skull1971

Randy, thank you for your insite. I have already sent Mike H. and email, and asked my questions, haven't got a reply, but i'm sure he has others that are "Bending his ear." As for the NMPRA people contacting me, I can call Dennis anytime I need to, the fact is (and leave me alone) I'm a dumb ass and screwed up my login some how, on the NMPRA site, and can't get in to the fourms.

As I said before, this was at first just to ask a question about the "Slow down," come to find out 2009 is the soonest it MIGHT happen. So for the record I DON'T CARE!!! (anyone miss that?) I wanted to make sure 2008 WOULD NOT CHANGE. In 2009 we'll wait and see what happens, and as far as my opinions on what to change, ask me after next season.

Mr. Kane, sorry to have come off wrong, but I maybe took your post wrong. I have a real problem with people that know something, and look down upon those that don't. In my business there is alot of that, and it'll get me every time. I started almost two years ago looking for pylon info, alot of whats out there is old unused web sites and contacts that are no longer there.

I would really like to see us all talk about the changes, or what changes that might need to be made. With none of the B.S. it always seems to get to. Some feel we need to slow down 428, 422 why? Cost? I use to race cars and motorcycles, let me tell ya these airplanes are real cheap compaired to that. A new dirt bike for the 2008 season is at or over $7000.00 out of the box. Just the helmet for a race car, $500.00 for an Ok one. So there is something else, what is it??

mhelsel

My Feedback: (8)

Eric,

Don't recall an email from you.

Mike Helsel
[email protected]

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

Okay Eric, I hear ya. There is Mike's email. I agree some of the NMPRA.ORG contact info and other information is not current. We will try to fix that.

Randy

BUDMAN27

The title to this thread is 428 slow down. Hell it sounds like we need to worry more about getting em started first then we can worry about slowing down later.

skull1971

Gentlemen, I'd like to take this moment to apologize to all of you for my attitude and poor posts on this thread.

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

I'm not offended at all Eric. This Pylon racing thing can be very frustrating at times. Finding answers and information can also be challenging. And when it's "rules proposal" time, things are always a bit on edge. I think we can all rest easy, and have faith that our contest board will make the right decisions.

Happy Holidays to all..

Randy Bridge

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

Too late...PUNK!

LOL

diggs_74

Luckily Eric this is America and no one has the right to not be offended... Vent away we've all done it at one time or another

skull1971

Thanks fella's

Jezmo

Eric, I agree wholeheartedly with Lee. Vent away.

skull1971

There is no "Vent" I'm ok with everything, I'm new to this sport and am so excited that I loose sight of what's best, and what I should do.

Since the votes were due by Dec.15th, any word on how it went??

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

Proposals 8, 9, and 12 failed the inital votes.

RCR-09-8 – To remove the inner pipes from the tuned mufflers for even #422.

RCR-09-9 – To add compression molded continuous strand props for event #422.

RCR-09-12 – To recognize record attempts for Events: #424, #428, #422 and #421.