Q-500 Racing Discuss AMA 428, AMA 424, and any other variants of Quickie 500 racing

Composites

Reply
Old 05-15-2008, 06:26 AM
  #26
vicman
 
vicman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Valdese, NC
Posts: 9,907
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

Well said Randy. Good post.
vicman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 09:00 AM
  #27
DMyer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Potomac, MD
Posts: 642
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Bozarth

Almost all of the 428 racers in my area have put their Shotguns, Slingshots, Neme-Qs, Vortexs (compostites) on the shelf for local racing and have brought out Vipers (or balsa/foam equivalents). I have done the same. The Vipers fly 90% as good as the composites at 25% of the cost. We have seen the fun factor increase with the Vipers - less stress since the price is so much lower! I have even started building another ReVlution. I love composites and can tell a difference when I fly one, but for local racing, you can't find a better deal than a Viper. It reminds me of the Cold War with the Soviets - as soon as one racer brings out his composite, we will all have to. Once again, my comments apply to local races. And because of Vipers and great deals on short strokes, we have a new local 428 racer (Hey Rich) who not only has moved up from 424, but is also CD'ing our first race of the season! You can't ask for more than that.

Kurt Bozarth
That is one of the most hopeful posts I have seen in years! Good to see someone finding a local solution. Maybe something like that can be started in the east where I live and 428 has been all but dead for several years. I seriously will never buy a composite for local racing and I simply cannot find the motivation to build another composite equal woody when the matrix is only 5-7 entries if that! If Vipers in 428 can increase entries... I am all for it.


Dan
DMyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:15 AM
  #28
daven
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Waseca, MN
Posts: 8,452
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

I believe Texas is also using the Viper / no composites for their local racing also??
daven is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 11:54 AM
  #29
skull1971
 
skull1971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Willis, TX
Posts: 1,569
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

Dave in Texas, we can use anything we want, within the AMA rules, for 428. But most are running the Viper, and that's what won in Tx. City a couple weeks ago, with a Jett LS. But everything showed up, Nemo-Q's, Hurricanes, Vortex's, and they had a better than average turn out. Guys with Vipers and older SS motors.
skull1971 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 12:30 PM
  #30
THRL-CKER
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Woodway, TX
Posts: 329
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

Here in Texas we are running two classes that have caught on very well. I know they are still running some 424 & 428, but the club 40 and Q25's are a blast. There have been 20 to 25 entrants in every race. Running a 400 foot course, and a WM Skyraider II or L.A. Racer with TT 40 in the advanced class and a ST 40 with an 11 X 4 prop in the novas class keeps the speed down. This has allowed us to obtain an AMA waver on the set back, which has allowed us to fly at smaller fields. We have a full schedule and a different field every race. The Q25's ( Q500 with OS 25 FX) run so close to the club 40's that we are having a grudge match in Waco on June 14 with the Q25 & club 40 groups have selected team captains and are putting together teams to compete. The club 40 events have come about due to a lot of hard (fun) work by Chuck W (Gunfighter), Jim Rice, & others. A special thanks to Chuck Ech of Sanaloma Laser for providing some great looking trophies for the races winners. The ability to go to other clubs and race against other members helps keep it going, I know the price of gas is high, but 2 or 3 can car pool and share the expenses to help keep it down. The more clubs that get involved the more contestants there are. I can see this becoming a clubs biggest event in only a short time. As far as a spectator event lets face it viewing a pattern contest is nice for a few minutes but one quickly losses interest after seeing several planes doing the same thing. Where racing is exciting from the first heat until the final main. Rarely do you see anyone leave until the end. Spectators are encouraged to check out the planes and talk to the contestants. A Skyraider II sells for $85.00 and a ST 40 for $50.00. I know of no other event that one can fly in and be completive with this kind of price tag.
For those of you who think this is kid's play and not fast enough for you I suggest you come to the next event, you just might see "Fast Freddie French with his unlimited racer on exhibit. He has competed in the last two events with his club 40 Skyraider II. What better way to stay in form than to practice as much as possible.


“IF IT AIN'T SCARY YOU AINT GOING FAST ENOUGH”
THRL-CKER is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 12:40 PM
  #31
luv to race
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Liquored, FL,
Posts: 678
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

At the last central Florida race in Mulberry, they ran 428 with 20 entries. We raced what ever quickees we wanted. And then on the Sunday we raced Q40, and pulled like 19 entries. Each day we mixed in the 424 guys. At lunch we flew some FAI F3D, 200mph stuff (certainly not for kids).

What ever works for your areas economic desires, right.

Randy Bridge
luv to race is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 01:15 PM
  #32
daven
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Waseca, MN
Posts: 8,452
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

We have a $250 limit locally. Keeps the price down, and allows those that want to build their own composites that opportunity.
daven is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 08:22 PM
  #33
Jeff Pfeifer
 
Jeff Pfeifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Yuma, AZ
Posts: 150
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites


Quote:
ORIGINAL: daven

I believe Texas is also using the Viper / no composites for their local racing also??

Are the Viper's really holding up structurally in 428 with the Nelson LS?
Jeff Pfeifer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 09:10 PM
  #34
daven
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Waseca, MN
Posts: 8,452
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

I have no idea Jeff, I just remember Dub and Mike talking about it at a race about a year or so ago... Trying to go with the Viper to keep participation up.
daven is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 09:58 PM
  #35
skull1971
 
skull1971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Willis, TX
Posts: 1,569
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

Quote:

Are the Viper's really holding up structurally in 428 with the Nelson LS?
Yes they hold up quite well, as long as you put a few "Tricks" in them.


Dave did you ever lay up those Seeker wings and take pictures? It was for a thread in the Composite forum,, remember?
I'd still like to learn how to do that.
skull1971 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2008, 10:36 PM
  #36
doug115
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Montgomery, TX
Posts: 19
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

We entered a viper with a Nelson LS @Texas City on May 3&4, It had the tail and engine thrust line adjustments and minor hardwae changes. It was our first race and the plane ran great. It was the first competition for our pilot and with some beginner luck we place second on Sat. We met some of the best pilots you could meet and they made us feel welcome , gave us lots of help and advise about the plane set-up, and flying the pylons. Sun. our beginner luck turned bad as we hit a pylon and destroyed the plane and we lost the engine in a swamp at the end of the field near the pylon. But we have another Viper and two Dan Kane Hurricans almost ready to go. Q500 racing is great fun. Doug 115
doug115 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 05:55 AM
  #37
daven
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Waseca, MN
Posts: 8,452
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

Eric,

I laid up 4 wings this winter, but I did not take pictures, completely forgot. I'll put it on my to do list, but probably won't do another for several months. I really don't enjoy laying them up.

Eric, here is a thread by Tony Pacini where he lays up a Q40 fuse and wing. Pretty informative.

http://www.rcpro.org/net/ThreadView.aspx?threadid=623
daven is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 07:15 AM
  #38
Bill Vargas
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Apple Valley, CA
Posts: 1,987
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

Do most of those that said they only Race balsa/foam planes,,, allow Glass fuselages?


BV
Bill Vargas is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 03:06 PM
  #39
bigtrev@xtra.co.nz
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 320
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

you raise a very good point because I don't know where to find a proper description of the word 'composite'..................is it a composition of materials/ methods/does it need to be made in a mould/does it need to be hollow. Until someone tells me the correct meaning then I reckon we can drive bulldozers through some of the interpretations that I have heard. I await with interest to be told what the correct definition is. regards trevor h
bigtrev@xtra.co.nz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 03:48 PM
  #40
fizzwater2
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Paola, KS
Posts: 2,722
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

Straight from the AMA rules on event 424..

16.3.1. Airframe. The airframe
specifications for this event are identical to those
for Quickie 500 (Event No. 428) with the
following exceptions: Wing and tail
construction. Wings and tails must be
constructed of either all wood or wood sheeting
over a solid foam core. Wings and tails
manufactured in molds designed to produce
hollow core structures are prohibited. Traditional
fiberglass reinforcement, carbon fiber or inset
wood spars continue to be acceptable. The last
three inches of each wingtip may be made of any
material. The intent of the rule is to keep the cost
of participation to a minimum.
fizzwater2 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 03:52 PM
  #41
garys
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Stansbury Park, UT
Posts: 937
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

Trevor,
Here are the AMA rules, the 424 rule that goes over wing and tail construction is rule # 16.3.1, it's fairly clear as far as what's allowed for 424 construction.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/...C%20Racing.pdf
garys is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 04:46 PM
  #42
bigtrev@xtra.co.nz
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 320
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

Thanks Gary and to the previous replier- I know what it relates to in terms of pylon, and thanks for your references, but where do I find the 'big picture' meaning. Does the same apply for say r/c aerobatics, or glider....................is it fair to say that the components generally are moulded by way of a female mould and could comprise balsa, epoxy, carbon, kevlar, glue, devinycell,etc. I have yet to find what the industry may define it as. The local boat industry here defines ait s any moulded epoxy/ polyester product using strengthening components, that is moulded in a female mould, or over a male mould. Is that the only answer. Gary, I still have that hat for you- will you be in Germany next year? Trevor H NZ
bigtrev@xtra.co.nz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 04:55 PM
  #43
Conrod
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Palmerston North, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 238
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

Hi
The airframe wording here in New Zealand is very similar to that used in the USA, but this rule covers both Expert Quickie ( 484 ) and Sport Quickie ( 424 ) but the composite airframe maybe allowed in Quickie Expert in the near future, but I can not see composites being made legal in Sport Q 500. So it is a very strange question Backplate asked, or maybe there is an underlying reason?????????????????????
Geoff
Conrod is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 05:11 PM
  #44
bigtrev@xtra.co.nz
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 320
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

Geoff, I'm not aware of any motive behind Backplates question...........if there is then I don't know it- but you didn't answer by question.............on the bigger picture 'what does composite truly mean.?' trevor H
bigtrev@xtra.co.nz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 06:24 PM
  #45
Bill Vargas
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Apple Valley, CA
Posts: 1,987
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

>>> Bill, start building Racer 2 kits again. I only have one left. I'm getting tired of scratch building Double Ds. <<<

Denis, I am still cleaning out the balsa dust from the last batch I made a while back and kinda toying with the glass fuselage idea(s).

BTW, you are the first I've heard of thats tired of double D's [sm=shades_smile.gif]


BV
Bill Vargas is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 06:51 PM
  #46
bigtrev@xtra.co.nz
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 320
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

have to agree, I understand the big picture on that one..................Trevor H
bigtrev@xtra.co.nz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 11:24 PM
  #47
garys
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Stansbury Park, UT
Posts: 937
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

Trevor. Our team selection is going to be in August. Hopefully I will see you in Germany
garys is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2008, 12:02 AM
  #48
bigtrev@xtra.co.nz
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 320
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

Gary, aim to be there as representing NZ in F3d, or perhaps just as a supporter for my Aussie mates...........trevor H nz
bigtrev@xtra.co.nz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2008, 11:16 PM
  #49
Conrod
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Palmerston North, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 238
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

Trevor
To your request, try a Google search.
Geoff
Conrod is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2008, 12:09 AM
  #50
bigtrev@xtra.co.nz
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 320
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Composites

thanks Geoff, trevor h (big end)
bigtrev@xtra.co.nz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:37 PM.