Q-500 Racing Discuss AMA 428, AMA 424, and any other variants of Quickie 500 racing

SONIC 500

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Old 10-30-2008, 02:36 AM
  #1  
freeair
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Default SONIC 500

Just picked up a new arf Sonic 500 by Sportmans Aviation which i must say was a steal at $50 australian, plus a new Thunder Tiger Pro 46 to go with it for an extra $100 au. the airframe looks to be built quite well except for a few minor things like fuselage wing hold down bolt mounts that i will beef up and tap for nylon bolts, plus abit more epoxy and glass to the inner engine mount / fuel tank bay etc. my main question is with the foam wing; would you advise adding a full span of carbon fibre strip set into the underside of this wing ? or would the wing be strong enough for tight turns with the TT Pro 46 ? i have,nt joined up the 2 wing halves as yet but it does seem to feel quite strong and i am sure my joine job will be spot on. also as mentioned the brand is sportsman avaiation, is this of better or worse quality to the other maker Model tech ? thanks.
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:04 PM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

freeair:

The last sonic 500 I built was about 4 months ago and the wing was balsa built up. I had reservations about the streingth of the balsa wing and sold it to a young friend who was starting to fly and race the quicker birds. It made a decent trainer with a TT 46, flies decently. Motor mount and wing HD's were glassed, wing covering removed and reglued along with the fuse. We have had no structural issues with it after around 25 flights. A foam/balsa wing should be much stronger. If there is no joining of two halfs involved and the sheeting is full length, there should be no need to reinforce it with carbon fiber rod. In fact I think you may weaken the wing by cutting into it. ENJOY
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Old 10-30-2008, 04:00 PM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

I joined my Sonic's wing halves with 30 min epoxy and a 2" wide strip of glass cloth.

After reading a bunch of threads about F-1, Q40 and Q500 racing, and how compression failures seem to be more common than tension failures, I added 2) 1/4" wide strips of CF, 12" long across the top of the wing, spaced 1/4" apart right along the C.G point...they are self adhesive... (heat sensitive sticky-backed from MPi ) and after I ironed 'em down, I rubbed in a couple light coats of thin CA.

I beefed up the wing hold down bolt/nut plate area w/ some epoxy/chopped glass, and did the same around the back side of the firewall.

Been flying it all this season w/ a K&B 6.5 Q500 and so far no problems.

The landing gear blocks need some help...try a search in the "Extreme Speed Prop Planes" forum and you should find a couple of threads on this airplane.
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Old 10-30-2008, 11:51 PM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

yes to be on the safe side i might add a couple of carbon fibre strips to the wing. going by my Viper wing which i must say is very strong and also quite heavy that little extra strengthening on the Sonic wont hurt. actually the way things seem i wouldn,t be surprised if the Sonic goes quicker than the Viper due to weight difference anyway. any other tips would be gratefull, thanks guys.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:14 PM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

freeair:

I have also an SONIC500 from Sportsman Aviation, (bought in QLD, Australia a couple of years ago)
And have not reinforced the wing, I just use 30 min epoxy to join the wing half’s. The engine I use is a
Webra 40 and have done a lot of races in the Swedish Q500 series and the wing works great as it is!
But I do add some strength the fuselage sides with some 10 mm balsa, to create wing saddles due poor
Quality to material in the sides.

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Old 11-04-2008, 03:29 PM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

Some pictures added of the reinforcement....

[img][/img][img][/img]

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Old 11-05-2008, 03:31 AM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

Thanks for this info and pics Matsson. i see your not using the original fuel tank and location of, is that a Bladder Tank ?
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Old 11-05-2008, 11:08 AM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

freeair

This isn’t a bladder tank, it´s a “no name” tank from my local hobby store.
The size is 6oz, so there is a safe amount of fuel to keep the plane in the air if in some
reason it could take time to get a clear to land after a finished Race.

Regarding positioning of the tank, so is it pulled back to reduce weight change relative to
CG when fuel weight reduces during a race.

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Old 11-06-2008, 08:39 PM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

I have 2 Sonics and both of them have a solid one piece wing, there was no gluing involved. My only concern with the plane is the fuselage is very soft and to assist I am in the process of gluing some Balsa rails inside the fuse. I have a TT Pro 46 on one and an OS 46 AX on the other and both go well. The only problem I have is flying anti clockwise, it is taking a bit of getting used to.

I have put round 8 oz tanks is mine and they slot in very nicely. I am not racing at this stage just trying to get used to flying the other way and setting the plane up properly. Now I have aileron and rudder mixed in am just trying to work out how to put some elevator into the mix and then get comfortable with that. Another of lifes little left handed challenges
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:10 AM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

Delta, i wouldn,t go trying the aileron / rudder mixing plus elevator mix as what happens when your doing a fast knife edge turn and you need a bit of rudder input cause the model is heading towards the ground slightly ? in this position the rudder acts as an elevator, so what happens when ailerons are used as well ? the model will flip back to a horizontal plane and will be all over the place whilst all other racers [ if your racing ] will knock you right off. its best to run these race models with the normal 4 ch radio set up, just like you would with a trainer. all rates set low.
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:15 PM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

Hi freeair,

I am only learning about all this stuff and still working my way through all the mixes that are available. At the moment I have rudder / aileron mixed in but with my radio I can turn this mix off simply by flicking a switch. What I did notice was that the plane would dip slightly when going fast with these settings so I wound the mix back a little. In the end I may dispense with the rudder / alieron mix and replace the rudder with elevator. Am just playing at the moment. As I said my biggest problem is flying anti clockwise but am slowly getting more comfortable with it. (my brain would rather fly the other way.) Maybe we should race both ways to even it out for every one because as I see it would be a better test of all round skills.

Anyway at the height I am flying I have not had a problem yet just slowly creeping up on some faster speeds and a plane that is set up in a way I feel comfortable with. I have a couple of the old "Syds" that I have refurbished as well as the two Sonics so am not short of aircraft. I figure we have all these controls and inputs on our radios that must if used properly help a bit when flying at speed and if we can control them with the "flick of a switch" we should be able to get the most out of both our planes and our radios
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:53 PM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

Delta, what you should do is fly the model at say 100 foot altitude and practise horizontal figure 8,s and ovals, this will get your right thumb into coordination if your a [ mode 1 ] flyer. as i mentioned forget the mixing stuff until your 100 % competent at flying normal radio, the only mix you should use is dual rates for now. i have seen many young guys new to r/c flying setting there models up with all mixing possible for 3D flying , with bad results [ crashed ]
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Old 11-11-2008, 01:49 AM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

Hi freeair,

Let me clarify a few things firstly I am not a young person I nearly qualify for "Old Fartsville" but am trying to learn new skills, have been flying for a few years and trying to come to grips with flying the other way at some sort of reasonable speed. Am quite competant and have "Wings". Now I have watched Pylon racing a number of times and am amazed at the skills of the Chris Callows and other top pilots of this world. I also know my capabilities and am simply trying to use the technology available to assist me get around corners at some sort of speed. I try to live by the theory that "Youth and Skill will never overcome middleage and treachery".

Question? If all we need to do is train ourselves in the movement of our thumbs why do we keep on purchasing the latest radios with all the latest gizmos on them if we can't or don't need to use them. I know that the top class pilots are very skilled in this sport but find it difficult to believe that they don't dial all sorts of things into their radios to help them get around the circuit. To quote another famous or infamous Queenslander "Please explain?"
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:30 AM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

Delta,

Mixing bad habits out of racers is normally not done much at the higher levels. Most racers frown on mixes as they do create additional drag.

Normally, changes in thrust, wing incidence, CG, and lateral balance are enough to take out all bad habits of the current racing planes. One of the biggest issues with the faster planes is how it comes out of a full pull on turn #1 or even a hard turn around #3 while on 90 degree knife edge. Some planes will want to tuck (continue rolling over through the turn), or balloon (roll back out of knife and climb).

These can be mixed out pretty easily with a little left or right aileron slaved to the elevator, but it is not really fixing the problem of one wing being heavier than the other. If the tuck or balloon is minimal, I will normally mix it out, but the real fix should be adding weight to a tip.
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Old 11-11-2008, 01:54 PM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

Hi!
The only thing you do is set up your plane so that it flies straight as an arrow at full throttle , turn around No 1and 2and 3 without more than giving aileron and elevator...and that the plane doesn't dive in the turns.
To do this you have to balance the plane both in lateral and axial.
Some elevator differential is also needed if you don't want to use dual-rates (which I don't like myself)at least in 428 pylon.
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Old 11-12-2008, 07:39 PM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

To daven and jaka,

Thank you for the information it is helpfull, now I am not trying to dial any bad habits out of my aircraft, the people I fly with tell me that my planes are constructed and set up very well and every time they have done maiden flights with them there have been no problems other than normal trimming, a couple of clicks either way. I tend not to play with my planes or fiddle with any of the parts, I check them before I fly but if it isn't broken I leave it alone. What I don't understand is why do all / most of the pilots fly with all the latest radios with all the gizmos and gadgets if they don't need or use any of the capabilities of that radio. On the basis of what you are saying we don't need any more than a very basic radio and control of our thumbs.

My thoughts are this, if by dialing in a small amount of mix whether it be aileron / rudder or alieron /elevator to help us get around the course and gives us the confidence to get out there and have a go what harm does it do. This like all sports is as much about mental state and confidence as flying the plane. The two go hand in hand. Now I am only dialing in a couple of percentage points of mix into my radio because I am more concerned about flying anti clockwise and getting round the course than anything else. (can't we fly clockwise please I see the anti clockwise flying as discrimination against people with left handed brains). I see so many pilots whose main concern is to go as fast as possible around the course but seem to forget that if you don't finish nothing counts.

I am not a person who gives in easily and will get the hang of this sometime before my retirement. You assistance and comments are appreciated.
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Old 11-12-2008, 08:52 PM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

"My thoughts are this, if by dialing in a small amount of mix whether it be aileron / rudder or alieron /elevator to help us get around the course and gives us the confidence to get out there and have a go what harm does it do."


At most levels of racing, that confidence may be plenty enough to win a lot of races.

At the highest levels of racing you will be at a disadvantage because every mix and every extra click of trim, will make your plane slightly slower. Not much at all, but it takes a very small disadvantage in speed to be beat by the best in the country, let alone the world. Most of the top fliers have the RC skills to beat the vast majority of racers, the difference comes into the the details like trim, balance, needle setting, prop selection for the day, and calling.

You can trim out bad habits, but its better in the long run to learn how to set up the plane the right way.
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Old 12-02-2008, 03:05 AM
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Default RE: SONIC 500


ORIGINAL: matsson

Some pictures added of the reinforcement....

[img][/img][img][/img]

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Matsson, i don,t know how you got your COG correct with your radio layout in pic. i have a thunder tiger pro 46 in the nose and i had to place the rx [ 1100 mah 4 cell ] battery right behind the fuel tank plus the throttle servo was in the way of the aileron servo arm so i had to move it more forward as well to also correct cog.
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Old 12-02-2008, 11:48 AM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

Freeair

I post some more pic´s, the setup is similar to yours.
The CG I use is, 77mm from the LE. It´s work perfect for me.
I had no problems with the throttle servo placement, I use
standard size servo´s, are you using a different size?



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Old 12-02-2008, 10:32 PM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

i realised the aileron servo i fitted is abit deeper than the standard servos, this is why i had to move the throttle servo over to the fuse side, other than that mine is set up the same as yours Matsson. thanks for the pics.
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Old 12-06-2008, 01:39 AM
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Default RE: SONIC 500

Delta 3, as you mentioned previously about ''old fartsville' well i am allmost there as well so dont worry too much mate. when i first started in radio models the only available radio was non proportional gear such as Reed Valve units and Single Channel made by O.S. my first full propo radio was a Flight link 4 channel set [ U.K. Brand ] that had what i said, ie; 4 channels and that was it, nothing else. this radio set made me use my practical skills in which i learnt many things such as setting up and correcting trims etc etc i must also mention the actuall models as thers were no ARF models to even think of buying, so we built from both kits and plans.
so what i am really on about here is the use of high tech computor radios for the novice / sport flyer, i now have upgraded my previous radio which was a JR Max 44 [ 4 ch ] to a Jr Max 66 [ 6 ch ] only for the reason of this 66 mod having a Buddy Box outlet plus more model memory. i have quite a few models ranging from sport / pattern / pylon and have found this radio type to be spot on for my needs but i will say a newer radio is on the way [ only for safety reasons ] 2.4 gig JR . you mentioned guys like Chris Callow [ JR Sponsored ] who is now using the new JR 12 x but he does not need a 12 channel radio to fly a 4 channel pylon racer. so get in the air and go for it without busting the bank.
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