Q-500 Racing Discuss AMA 428, AMA 424, and any other variants of Quickie 500 racing

T-tail Quickie

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Old 11-10-2008, 02:44 PM
  #1  
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Default T-tail Quickie

Hello all,
I was thinking about putting a T-tail on a new quickie, but need some dimensions. Does anyone have a Taipan or Thunderchicken they could measure? I need the fin width and height, as well as the chord and span of the tailplane. Thanks,
Jeff
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Old 11-10-2008, 06:19 PM
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Kevin Matney
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

Why not try a Pit Bull Q/500
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8121390/anchors_8133668/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#8133668]Pit Bull[/link]
The high mid tail is like a T tail.
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Old 11-11-2008, 11:23 AM
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djlyon
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

I'll measure it and give you the numbers. Thunder Chicken???? This is my Thunder Quickie.
Denis

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Old 11-11-2008, 11:54 AM
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daven
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

Nice looking plane Denis.

Wasn't there another T-tail called the "Terminator"??
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:48 PM
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vicman
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

My BuckShot.

ElectricDelta has a Terminator with the T-tail. It worked a whole lot better than mine.
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Old 11-11-2008, 02:54 PM
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

Thanks Kevin, but I'll be pulling the fuse from my own mold, so I really just need the dimensions of the surfaces. I have built two Mad Dogs, which were the best flying quickie's I've had. One was mid aired in it's second heat, the other in it's third. Thank fully, one mid-air cut off the tail, and the other destroyed the nose. I mated the two and have a pup. Care to name that plane?!

As for the "Thunderchicken" vs. Thunderquickie I swear I read that name somewhere...
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:23 PM
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djlyon
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

The horizontal on the Thunderquickie is: Span 19 in, cord at center 5.5 in, cord at tips 3.75 in. the plan form is a double taper. Much more taper on the leading edge than on the trailing. The vertical is 3.5 high from the top of the fuselage, cord is 7.5 at the fuselage and 3.5 at the top. Again double taper with only a little on the trailing edge. hope this helps.

denis
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:39 PM
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djlyon
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

Clark L started building this plane in the mid 80s. He intended it for a K&B 6.5 RE with a 1/4 wave pipe. Pylon engine of the era. He never finished it and gave it to me figuring that I might just be silly enough to finish it and race it. He's right. I will race it in 424 this season. He didn't give me the K&B though. I was hoping. The plane is a surprisingly smooth and grove y flier. It likes to stay almost on the knife better than most 424s I've flown. It's built to the old Q500 dimensions so I guess you would call it a wide body. I thought it was going to be a bit twitchy because of the giant control surfaces and tail flex. I covered the whole back end with 2 oz cloth but it could have probably have used more. I thought of putting a Nelson on it until I gave the finished wing a twist. No Nelsons going on that thing. I don't think I would even want to see the old pylon K&B on it. Speed??? It toodles along OK but will rely on good flying characteristics to stay in front.

Denis
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Old 11-11-2008, 04:07 PM
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

Denis, if it was built to the old Calzona rules with a 2.5" firewall, ect, check the wing thickness, as they were only required to be 1 1/8" thick. Most were actually 1 3/16", however, so you may be ok.
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Old 11-12-2008, 12:08 AM
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djlyon
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

It's close Gary, real close but I don't have a real good way of measuring it.
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:43 AM
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

Thanks Denis,
Those dimensions are what I was looking for.
Jeff
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:26 PM
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

As we are talking T-tail quickie... Are there any of you guys that maybe interest in one? If there's market demand for it, I may design a model based of the current SAM-RAI V-tail and offer it as a kit. Just a thought!

I have designed and built a T-tail SAM-RAI wood kit to test the high speed airfoil and found the T-tail concept model to be extemely stable at all speed as fast on the straight away. The concept model was raced by Cole Thornton in APRA/AMA 424 in Phoenix and show a little more speed potential than my previous Phase 5 V-tail model at the time. And with a little improvement and modification from the current V-tail model, the T-tail can be flown in no time. See photos for more info.
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:32 AM
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

How about a T tail on this. It would at least have a different look.

Denis
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:19 AM
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Bill Vargas
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

is that a F4U-1Q500 ?


BV
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Old 11-13-2008, 08:29 AM
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

I raced two Taipans in 424. They had some very strange habits in the turns in the way they waggled and dragged their tails through the turns.

Having said that, they flew very well (rock solid) with a Nelson up the front.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:57 AM
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

I always liked the T-tail look. I built and flew Thunder Quickies for many years and they were really smooth flying with no bad traits except one.... they were all significantly slower than all the modern quickies with the better airfoils, moments and optimized fuse shapes. As soon as I switched to something more modern... my times came way... way... down. That said... I have always wanted to see someone design a modern T-tail using current technology and the 66012 airfoil. I don't know if it would be faster than the fine current crop of racers... but I bet it would be competitive with a decent pilot and it wouldn't look like everyone elses V-tail!

Good luck to those that try!!!
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

they never look like they'd be easy to launch?

rb
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:39 PM
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

The plane was designed by Ernst Haennl in Germany. The purpose was to minimize the landing gear drag as I recall. I believe he produces a short kit. He's raced it and says it's fast and smooth.

I'd build and race one. Then I could at least say I may not be any good but I'm different.[8D]

Denis
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:00 PM
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie


ORIGINAL: luv to race

they never look like they'd be easy to launch?

rb
That is a huge disadvantage for the T-Tail... while flying wise they take off very well, if you have a caller capable of a huge launch hole shot... that is more difficult with the tail being in the way. That free 2+ seconds at launch would be hard to give up in my mind. The races are very often, with all else being equal, won on the first lap IMO.
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:18 PM
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

A couple of points:

I don't know why anyone would try to compete with a low wing design. They are a lot slower, and give up more speed in the turns than the high wing designs.

A T-tail is weaker, hard to set up with a tight control system, more surface intersections, and a bee itch to launch. One that I flew years ago did fly well, but so did all the rest.

Is that Thunderquickie suppost to fly pattern as well? The area of the horizontal is really on the generous side at 17.5% of the wing area. 14-16% is more typical, and I've gone as low as 12%.

Two seconds at launch? Sure. Whatever.
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Old 11-14-2008, 01:29 AM
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

i dissagree with the mention of a high wing model is faster than a low wing model . an example of this is why are the fastest pylon models such as Q40 and F3D,s designed with the wing under [ low wing ] ? ?
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Old 11-14-2008, 06:59 AM
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

building a T-tail is just not worth the time and effort to do so (for many reasons listed above by highplains). there is nothing to gain over the competition with a t'tail. speed wise, you not going to majically find 5mph over the competition, and your not going to have a plane that fly's any better than a properly built Vortex, NemeQ, Seeker, Hurricane... it's just not going to happen.

now if you're "bored" and need a winter project. and you're looking for something to mess around with. then by all means, knock yourself out and build a t'tail.

but if you're looking to be a solid competitor. get a modern day quickee (most come in a balsa/foam design as well for $195) and take your time to build it very straight. put a really smooth finish on it. and have the best quickee flyer in your area teach you to get around the race course with a smooth delivery.

Randy Bridge
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:37 AM
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

freeair. I don't believe he meant in every case that high wings are better. There are tons of variables that come into play. However, in Q500, where you are not allowed to have fillets blending the wing into the fuselage, having the wing on top seems to be an advantage.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:36 PM
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

Hi guys,
I know there is no magical formula. I'm not even trying to get extra speed. The same or close would be nice though. I just have a full stock of quickies (miracle #1) after this season, and thought it would be fun to experiment with something different. I'm in the process of cleaning and organizing my shop (miracle #2) and am looking for a project when I'm done. I have an Ashley to put together, but that's about it and winters are long here and snow is already on the ground. Plus I find the experimenting fun.

As for the launch disadvantage, I was thinking of reinforcing the fuse at the tail with some carbon tow during lay-up and putting the tail on a little bit ahead of it. That way, there will be a two or three finger "handhold" that projects out the back to launch with.
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:32 PM
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Default RE: T-tail Quickie

My brother and I both fly v-tail F3D's and t-tail F400/QM40's, we find that we can push these faster and harder than a conventional tail by putting two fingers on the trailing edge of the stab and pushing through like a bowling ball.
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