Q-500 Racing Discuss AMA 428, AMA 424, and any other variants of Quickie 500 racing

uk budget class's

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Old 11-22-2008, 04:50 PM
  #1  
cedarf5d
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Default uk budget class's

Hi Guys, long time since i was on here from the other side of the pond,
This is an out of interest post as to wether you guys have a mini q500 class or an equevilent in either ic or electric.

weve had an ic class called club 2000 going since 2000 and has proved very popular, based on a smaller version of a q500, hand launched powered by .25 ic motors, no undercarriage, its been a very good class as a leader to other class,s

weve just managed to get a new class off the ground called e2k, (very nearlly called it Q300e)basiclly the same as club 2000, airframe rules identical but electric.
running on 4s 2200 lipo with a 600 class Turnigy outrunner they are matching the ic class, about the 90mph mark,
We run on a smaller course than q 500

a short video below, it was done on a real cheepie hong kong camera hence no sound but gives you an iedia on speed a simularity to Q500

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qJZfJBhyiMk


we wondered what you guys had in the way of budget/smaller class's in the states

cheers guys


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Old 11-22-2008, 05:51 PM
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oddy
 
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Default RE: uk budget class's

Hi CedarF5D:

I´m not in the US but in México city where most popular categories are Q500 428 and Q40

We also have had some "budget available" categories with Q200 planes, basically 200 inches quickies powered by NORVEL 061 with pretty good success for a while.

Do you have the plans of this club 2000 planes, if so and if youre ok sharing them, please send them to me at arreolavictor@hotmail.com

Kind Regards.
V*ctor

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Old 11-22-2008, 06:53 PM
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cedarf5d
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Default RE: uk budget class's

Hi Victor, the black carbon one (wasp) is one ive deigned myself, i havent got any plans done up in cad or pdf yet, ill be happy to pass them one or publish once done. ``The info below is enough if you stick to the rules on sizes on the link below to create one.
Again on the link below ill be doing a build thread for the wasp from start to finish, youll see then how basic they are to produce, the wasp is the only one that is built entially from 3mm light-ply, light but very strong.

23" fuselage lengh for the ic and 24.5" for the electric version, the only difference between the 2 is the electric version has a longer nose to accomadate the batteryy etc and makes it easier to achieve cofg
V tails are very popular but ive found them to wag thiere tails in high winds a little. crusifix works very well, guess the old rule of " keep it simple" does work, wing section that i have used is the RG14, 15 has been used and popular, f3d airfoils dont really work as were not getting up to those kind of speeds.
A lot are runing one aileron, works very well, but can be a handfull if you get caught out with low airspeed on take off and landing, as a preference i use 2 and find the nose pitching is less on a tight no1 turn compared to 1

its been designed around a set size peramerters as we have for q500.
if you check out this site http://www.rcmf.co.uk/4um/index.php?board=220.0 youll get a load more info about them inc the rules, this part covers the new e2k class weve just got off the ground

Weve restricted the e2k planes to 4s as this kept them about the same airspeed as the ic class, (.25)and within a reasonable budget, 5s they were blistering, 6s hasent been tried but im sure it wont be long before someone tries. lol.
We use to have a few electric class's many years ago and even by todays standards are very small, most too had fizzled out years ago, so hopefully weve managed to plug a gap in the market for budget electric racing, especially with the advancement in brushless and lipos

I started off pylon in f5d and i think i went the long way round in time and money before i started to get somewhere, at the time there wasnt any leader electric class's, so it ment straight into a full blown fai class, and at that time there was no interest in the 424 class

This budget class does allow guys to build up experiance on a course, trimming, flying the course, calling etc before commiting to a faster more expensive class, and with all the basics behind them, cost if youre prepared to build for your self is min and a few crash,s or midairs wont break the bank balance, may pee the mrs off that youre stuck out in the workshop night after night. lol


speed wise, yes thiere slower than 428, q40 but as you can see from the video on a short course they dont hang around, so it keeps the die hard happy but its not a stupid speed that puts of the average club flyer as say f3d may, and its the average club flyer wholl keep a class afloat with numbers

hope that opens up a little more info on them

cheers
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Old 11-22-2008, 08:53 PM
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Default RE: uk budget class's

our club races the world models skyraider mkII. they sell for about $85 USD. We allow up to a .46 cu in. engine. limit you to standard servos. and no airframe mods. outside of "good modeling practices". we run a 2 pole 900ft setup. this setup also works well with the AMA 424 3 pole course. we see times on the 3 pole course of about 1:50 average. on the 2 pole course we see times around 1:30 - 1:40. so about 100 mph. most guys run the OS 46 AX. with a apc 10x7 prop. i guess thats not really a smaller class, but its serves as our budget class.
we see very good turnout for these races. about 15 -20 guys every other week. i know alot of clubs run .40's in these planes. but the planes really handle the engines just fine. with the exception of the wings should really be glassed at the center joint.
we also race AMA 424 and a sport scale class.
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Old 11-23-2008, 07:50 AM
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cedarf5d
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Default RE: uk budget class's

Is this the one, sky raider

on the electric and ic side we steered away from one make off the shelf as too often (dont know what its like in the states) they would go out of stock and we couldnt find 2 different airframes alike on preformance, so we opted for the set of dimentions for home build, but theres allways someone thats prepared to build for others.

weve had the same peoblem with motors going out of stock

looks a good class though, are there any videos availble

cheers
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Old 11-23-2008, 11:18 PM
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Default RE: uk budget class's

yeah, thats the plane we run. our local hobby shop owner is also one of our racers. so he keeps a good stock of planes and engines. seems he's always got a stack of them planes. i think world models is pretty good about keeping products in stock. and these skyraiders seem to be VERY popular. even as just sport planes.

now as for videos... yeah, we have a couple [link=http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=106250C5FBA74225]here.[/link]
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Old 11-25-2008, 07:38 PM
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oddy
 
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Default RE: uk budget class's

CEDARF5d,

One more question, what are you using for sheeting your foam wings on these planes.....are you using balsa.

My question is because Im looking for some alternative material that could be used to sheet foam wings which allow this kind of planes to be cheaper and even more accesible for having lot of people into pylon racing these category and pull them to Q500 and Q40 after.

Balsa has become pretty expensive due to exchange rate factors here in México.

Kind Regards.

V*ctor.
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Old 11-25-2008, 11:43 PM
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cedarf5d
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Default RE: uk budget class's

Hi oddy, yes balsa has got more expensive even here with a couple of big price rises recentlly.

Balsa can be used, we use a contact glue thats safe on foam, but mainlly are wings are covered in obeshi vaneer fixed the same way, that i would expect to be expensive in mexico, as it is here and sometimes in short suppy. (any vaneer if thin enough can be used)

The other option is instead of using polystyrene you can cut thw wings out of a styrene (sometimes blue) foam, not sure what you guys would have in mexico, its quire common here and gets used in the building industry, because it has a very smooth surface after being hot wire cut and is sandable, where as polystyrene is not and does not have as a smooth surface as polystyrene, you can glass fibre with glass fibre, sand and paint.

A polystyrene , balsa or vaneer wing we wont use any form of a wing spar, (never seen one broke, but a syrene foam and glass i prefer to use a small hardwood spar

Hope that helps, if you get stuck ill see if i can find any links for the styren foam,if all else fails you can find a fairlly stiff brown parcel wrapping paper, glue to foam and glass fibre, thats cheap and can work


Regards Darren
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Old 11-25-2008, 11:50 PM
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cedarf5d
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Default RE: uk budget class's

Found this one for brown paper http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190499

This one for glass bagging onto styren foam http://www.pilotsguide.com/rc/vacbag.shtml

This one may be helpfull http://www.smilesandwags.com/Floatsite/foamcut.html
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Old 02-09-2009, 09:14 AM
  #10  
cedarf5d
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Default RE: uk budget class's

heres a quick link to a you tube vid of one of the e2k wasps weve got going for this years new electric pylon racing class,

turnigy outrunner on an 8x6 prop, 4s 2200 30c lipo, the electric version is faster than a .25 ic version and can out turn all ic versions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb9Ha...e=channel_page

cheers

Darren
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:20 AM
  #11  
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latest pics of the wasp mk4 e2k pylon racer........ now weve finally got our sponcer batteries which are far better than the ones we did our initial trials on, the speed has far outsripped the ic versions and the cornering is on a six pence
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:40 AM
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Great looking model you have there.
We are doing another entry (leader) class over here in addition to Club 40 (the Skyraider). We call it Quickie 25. It uses any leagal 424 airframe with an OS .25 FX and APC 8X6 prop. We also dropped the min weight to 3.25#. The ARF planes like the Viper and Predator do fine in this class but we are seeing some new designs show up too. This is my BuckShot designed by Bob Harris.

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Old 02-17-2009, 09:09 AM
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cedarf5d
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Default RE: uk budget class's

Is the yellow one a T tail.........if so out of interest how high is the fin, looks very short in the photo.....how have you got on with the T tails agaunst the V and crusifix type, interested to know as im designing a new 428 version for our european cup version and a t tail was a concideration.

out of interest did te cz grand chelem mk2 ever make it to the states

cheers
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:45 AM
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The T-tail has not worked out to well yet. I will re-visit again after I have a few spare racers and time to mess with it a bit. My plan on it was to do a pull for up linkage but it just would not center consistantly. If I were to push for up the linkage would be much simpler and most likely not a problem at the quickie 25 speeds, I'm doubtful that it would be sturdy enough for 428. The vertical was 2.25" from the point where the hoizontal hit square down to the fuse.

out of interest did te cz grand chelem mk2 ever make it to the states
Never heard of them.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:53 AM
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Default RE: uk budget class's

I had ordered one of the Grand Chelams a couple years ago from Top Models.

After shipping, the cost would have been about $225 usd and I canclled the order.

I'm not aware of any coming over.
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:27 AM
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and I haven't seen it mentioned on the German forums in about 2 years. It's probable dead.

Denis
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:38 PM
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Hi Dave, yes i remember the thread a couple of years ago, i did the write up on the mk 1 on the ones we got hold of in the uk, there were a lot of issues with its design, not on flight preformance, it outdid my viper on the same 424 setup, spent ages going through all the problems on the fabrication side, gave them solutions for everything, then mario found the wing area was too small, they then built the new mk2 with all the mods id suggested, not even a thanks and then they ceased communication when i asked for the first one of the production line [:@]
They are still around at http://www.topmodelcz.cz/index.php?&...detail&id=1132
This time they are only selling to trade, but i dont know of any trade dealers that have ever stocked it, ive asked for a trade account, and then ill know what price thiere selling at.
im keen at getting the club q500 (424) here going properly, i dropped everything 2 years ago when i got divorsed ,

As well as the e2k plane ill also have my own q500 out as a kit later in the year (424,428) but as you said dave the shipping costs put a spanner in the works to the states, especially as the pound and euro..... ill have a look at costs later

Vicman, i got over the T tail elevator connection quite well, sorry i havent got any pic's but ive done a quick drawing, not to scale but youll get the jist..... its the same method i use on the f5d models, the tail fin is made from 3 thin sections, the centre one has a channel cut out for where the wire travels, thats then glued to one of the outer skins and the plastic tube glued in with 5 min epoxy and then sanwiched with the other outer skin, once set sand and shape as normal, i then used the elevator connection using one of the f5d fiberglass tabs glued onto the elevator(as pic) the fin is very marginally fatter than some may use, but it does aid with a larger seating area, this method was tried out on a 428 and was ok but did wag its tail down the straightaway, possiblly i had the fin too small, perhaps not in height but width, never got round to testing any further....but did work well, hope that helps

cheers Darren
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Old 02-17-2009, 03:24 PM
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Default RE: uk budget class's

Yeah, I see what you are doing with the horn there I just really wanted to pull instead of push. Like I said when I get a few back up planes I'll go back and work this version out. I missed a race last year messing around with it and don't want to risk it again.

What were you using for the wire?
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Old 02-17-2009, 03:49 PM
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1.2 mm vic (dont know what that is in imperial) may seem a bit thin, but provided the rest of the cable was supported and there was no bind it worked brill, the forces on the elevator are suprisingly light...... its basiclly a copy of how the f5d machines get done. ill post up some pics when i get another one made up in a few weeks
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Old 02-17-2009, 04:06 PM
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Cool.
What writing did you do? Are you affiliated with one of the RC mags over there?
Gray put a pic of one of my planes in his RC Model World column a few months ago.

Brill...thats a new one
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Old 02-17-2009, 04:22 PM
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Default RE: uk budget class's

the write ups were on on here about 2 years ago for the chelam........i think i may have seen the pic, ill dig out the old mags.....written a few articles over the years but only a small proportion ever get to print, do you guys get the RMC&E mag, hopefully ill have an article about an open pylon day ive orginised here to generate more interest for pylon racing and hopefully ill get some articles printed for the e2k class with a free published plan.........hopefull theyll except it
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Old 02-17-2009, 04:51 PM
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I used to get both RCMW and RCM&E till the US agent for RCM&E turned idiot. Now RCMW is the only UK mag I get and I really like it. Last year both magazines had some nice pylon racing article series going.
Since you posted I went back thru my RCMW mags to point you in the right issue and it would seem I made both the November and December issue.
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