Q-500 Racing Discuss AMA 428, AMA 424, and any other variants of Quickie 500 racing

Wings for 424?

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Old 01-25-2009, 12:16 PM
  #1  
DonStegall
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Default Wings for 424?

Over the years we've seen guys offer pre-sheeted wings for Quickies. Bill Vargas was a major leader in this trend and many planes were built using his wings.

Now we have laser cut fuselage kits and plans for planes like the Seeker.

At one time Super T R/C offered the Venom that used the Viper wing.

The Viper wing is a good value at $80 when they are in stock, but they are on the heavy side.

I've been cutting foam cores this weekend and the thought occurred to me that I could sell foam cores for Quickies in a couple of different airfoils at very, very low prices. These would not be the absolute finest CNC cores, but the price would be so low that messing up a set of cores would not be a big deal.

I think there is still a market for the pre-sheeted wings and I would like to see any makers of these wings listed in the "Where do I Buy..." thread.

What do you guys think?
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Old 01-25-2009, 07:09 PM
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BarryReade
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

Well, being a newbie on the scene I think it's great that you will offer these cores. Will it be an air frame kit with the fuselage that you are developing using the Viper wing?
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Old 01-25-2009, 09:55 PM
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DonStegall
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

I have templates for the 66-012 for foam cores for my Smasher Q-500 fiberglass fuselage. I'm going to make templates for the 65-012 and the G37UA212 so I can test them on prototypes of the Screamer. The 65-012 is symmetrical and performs well at the lower speeds of Quickie 25 and AMA 424. The G37UA212 comes highly recommended by a well known NMPRA racer for 424 and slower speeds. I'm going to make templates for the S8064 which is the airfoil used on the Viper. That is so I can build some wings that don't weigh 18 ounces without the servo. The Viper wing is strong but heavy. Plus they are not always available.

The cores would have to be in two 24" sections for shipping to be reasonable. But a quick batch of 5 minute epoxy fixes that.

What I had in mind was maybe $10 for one set or $15 for two sets plus shipping. I checked on boxes and USPS shipping and it looks like shipping Parcel Post and the cost of a box would be around $10. So maybe $20 for one set shipped or $25 for two sets shipped. Obviously two sets is the better deal.


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Old 01-25-2009, 10:32 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

You can put me down for two sets whenever you are happy with the design. Tell me more about the Smasher fuselage. (not trying to hijack the thread, I think the dots connect)
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Old 01-26-2009, 06:58 AM
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DonStegall
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

I did a complete thread on the development of the Smasher. It should be in this section.

But here are a couple of photos. It uses the 66-012 airfoil. It has a stab saddle for a bolt-on tail, but the stab saddle is at 0 degrees incidence and you can just put a conventional tail right on it.
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Old 02-05-2009, 02:34 AM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

Don..... This is good timing... I have an old Scat Cat I got from a friend. He built it up but never finished it about 15 years ago. I pulled it down off the shelf the other day and found the wing sheeting just popped loose when I applied a twist to the wing. Hahahahaha.... It was terrible. I think he must have used Sorgum... We all know that stuff is no good for the long haul. I decided to see if I could find some new cores so I could finish it up and fly it. I haven't searched for them yet but if your cores will do the job, I'm on it.
Thanks,
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Old 02-05-2009, 05:47 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

Don,
I can tell you unequivocably that the most calls I get from people is about getting a sheeted Q500 wing for both racing and sport. There is a great need for someone to take up where Bill V left off and offer sheeted wings. The Viper wing is as mentioned, very heavy. I would think that a fair price would be easy to get, and that just like Bill did, there sould be two prices, one for regular balsa and one for contest balsa sheeting.

Are there any takers out there? Put me down for a couple right off the bat!
Scott
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Old 02-06-2009, 03:26 AM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

Scott,

I have considered doing it. Primarily so I can sell the Smasher for 424 with a sheeted wing in the $150-$200 range.

But also to fill the void.

If I can produce a decent product at a decent price in a decent amount of time, I may do it.

I don’t want to get into shaping leading and trailing edges. What I have thought about is getting plywood sanding templates laser cut so guys can shape their wings consistently.

I have also thought about doing fiberglass tips to keep the weight down. People could still put plastic covering over the fiberglass. The World Models does it all the time. I’ve already figured out how I would make multi-part molds for the tips so it would be an easy lay-up with easy mounting to the wing.

I think I could do a contest balsa sheeted wing with the fiberglass tips for $100. And lower with less options.

I was making a set of Quickie templates this evening and I made a little 5 minute video about an easy way for shaping the bottom template which to me is always a pain. I think I will even use the technique for top templates as it is so precise and easy.

See it on YouTube at [link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8M91NlsxPE[/link]
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Old 02-06-2009, 07:08 AM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

Somebody needs wings?
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:02 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

I make my own foam core wings because I want them strong enough and stiff enough for 428 and legal for 424. I used to buy them that way from BV. I really really like the sound of laser cut plywood sanding templates for a 66012 airfoil. I would be the first on your list. My free hand sanding block just doesn't hack it.

Denis
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:48 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

Developing good sanding technique just takes practice, a few tools, and time.

Tools for the leading edge of a quickie wing is a single template.

Shown here is my airfoil template and my 1/4" radius for fuselages.

Get the leading edge to match the template, avoid flat spotting the airfoil (use shadows and a point source of light to see), a good sanding block and you can make a competitive wing.
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:51 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

And a stack of contest balsa.
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:14 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

Yup that stack is about twice mine.
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:35 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

A few sheets over 250 in total. I learned a long time ago that some years good wood is just not available, since it depends on growing conditions in Equador. So buy it when you find it.

Of course with the extra weight in Quickie, it is easy to build under weight models now. But 428 quickies at 3 lb 6 oz were possible even with brass sleeves and nicad batteries.
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:51 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

Yup I built a 428 3lbs 4oz but it was a lot of work and careful material selection but was with an AAC and nimh. Now it's easy to hit 3 11. You don't even have to give it a lot of thought. I think I like this way better. Imust be getting lazy.
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Old 02-06-2009, 02:02 PM
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DonStegall
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

I'm on my way to pick up some good foam.

I'm going to sheet at least one wing this weekend.

I would like to hear what materials and where to put them. I have an assortment of CF laminate, CF cloth and tissue, all weights of glass cloth, and an abundant supply of 1/64" plywood.

One of the local guys puts a 1/8" wide by 1/4" deep spruce spar on the top and bottom of his wings. Should I do that? It doesn't add much weight. Or even just use balsa spars?

This will be a 66-012 with a 1/4" leading edge and 9 7/8" chord.
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Old 02-06-2009, 02:21 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

Don
I got your PM and will answer it a little later with good detail. I wouldn't go through the trouble of spars just use one 1" wide by .014 carbon strap on the top and bottom of the wing and wrap the leading edge before sheeting with carbon tow. I believe this is the way BV made his. I've never seen even a too weak wing fold but they twist, I believe, and get squirrelly going around the pylons at 428 speeds. Stiffness is what's important after basic strength.

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Old 02-06-2009, 02:23 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

Anybody tried "Spider Foam"? I picked up a sheet a while back but have never tried it. It is an anisotropic material.

As to Quickie wings
428 used 3/32 top, 1/16 bottom with 1/2" x .007 carbon for 18" glued to bottom skin inside.

Have also built 428 wings with 1/8" top, and 3/32" bottom, same carbon. Not much weight gain*, but a lot stiffer. Holes in the ground about the same.

#only adds about 1.6 oz with 7lb wood.
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Old 02-06-2009, 03:28 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

Can anyone PM me or just post the DWG cad file for the selig 8064(Viper Wing)?

Please...
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Old 02-06-2009, 04:05 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

I hope you are all aware that the Vortex 424 kit comes with the foam wing all pre-sheeted. The only thing you need to do to these wings is cut in your ailerons and pushrods, apply some glass to the outside and put on your wing tips. There is also glass on the inside and carbon fiber top and bottom along the trailing edge.
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Old 02-06-2009, 04:16 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?


ORIGINAL: a9ms23

Can anyone PM me or just post the DWG cad file for the selig 8064(Viper Wing)?

Please...
I sent you an email as PM'ing or posting a DWG (or DXF) file here doesn't work. I requested that you tell me how you are going to use the drawing so that I can provide what you need. It will only take me a few minutes to crank it out, Zip it up, and email it.
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Old 02-06-2009, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

Where do you get that sanding block Denis??
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Old 02-06-2009, 05:09 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?


ORIGINAL: PylonDave

Where do you get that sanding block Denis??
Are you talking about the one in the video? If so, Home Depot or most auto finishing shops have them.
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Old 02-06-2009, 05:40 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

Or are you talking about the one I used on the 3lb 4oz plane or the one I use to make the wavy surfaces on my regular wings[:'(]
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Old 02-06-2009, 06:32 PM
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Default RE: Wings for 424?

I've decided that I am going to sell cores for the 66-012, the 65-012, and the S8064. Possibly a couple of others. The price will be $10 per 48" core. Shipping will depend on if you get them in 24" sections or in 48" full length cores. I got some 30"x10"x10" boxes so I can ship 2 sets of 24" cores using US Postal service via Parcel Post at a good low price. I already have 48"x12"x12" boxes.

I'm going to work on offering the different airfoils sheeted (full length) in a variety of configurations.

Right now I only have one vacuum pump (with a reservoir) and it is set for composite parts. So I have to pull the vacuum down on it. My Dad has (at least) another GAST pump that I can get to use for the composite work. So I won't have to reconfigure the pump I have all the time.

The new foam I bought is SO much better than what I had been using. It is not perfect, but it is quite decent.

This is a picture of a 66-012 core. My blanks are 47.75” x 10”. The chord is 9.875” and I have a 0.25” leading edge. So there is extra support for the balsa that extends past the end of the core (5/8”+) and makes up the trailing edge. I did this so that nothing would be hanging out the rear when I bag the block. Nothing new I’m sure.
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