Q-500 Racing Discuss AMA 428, AMA 424, and any other variants of Quickie 500 racing

Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

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Old 02-10-2009, 04:57 AM
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speed401
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Default Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

Hi, anyone know the intake timing of a Pro Thunder Tiger .46 RC engine?
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Old 02-14-2009, 12:37 AM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

why would you want to mod this engine ? over past experience with glow engine mods , unless you know exactly what you want and what your doing its not worth the risk of slowing down the once good engine. the best mods you can do to this engine [ but none if your racing Q-500 pylon ] is to play with head shims and nitro plus replace the pipe with a Jett type. if you insist on moding this you need a Degree Wheel and the understanding of how you read it for all measures.
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Old 02-14-2009, 06:34 AM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

I remember when if you wanted to go faster than the other guys you would modify your motor by altering the timing on the crankshaft along with hand fitting the bearings, sleeve, piston, rings, and even the intake casing. Unfortunately our society has decided that any infraction of the rules inn racing makes you an extremely undesirable person and you should be banned from your favorite sport/hobby for life. I recently got a TT PRO 40 and the first thing I did was disassemble it and check the sleeve and bearings for binding and flushed the case out. I was pleasantly surprised to find everything inside this motor met the minimum standards of excellence. I also thought about getting a PRO46 and see if the internals would fit at PRO40 case as it looks like they might. I was talking to some guys about it and they told me about a guy in Florida that did that and went to a Club40 race and was found out what he had done and that he had been banned from ever competing again. (sigh) I was raised in an era that if you weren't pushing the rules to the edge you weren't trying and that was "Just racing". But, alas, no more, it is not acceptable so I just check the stock fitting clean up the flashing marks and do the best breakin procedure that I can. I am sure there are some classes in some racing that engine mods are allowed but until I get back to them and the rules do not allow it I won't do any mods. I would say that if you checked the crank timing on a PRO46 you coud probably advance the intake timing bt at least 10* and you would definitely see and increase in power. But, before doing that I would recommend you get a good muffler/pipe as that will increase your your top end rpm by as much as 2000 rpm. As you increase the timing on your motor it will like higher compression and have a bigger appitaite for more nitro in the fuel. My new PRO40 is taching right at 16.5K on the tachometer and that is on 15% nitro, APC 9x6 prop (balanced only), and the stock muffler. I will have to try different props and see if I can get a prop that will lower the RPM some so when I go to a club40 event I will not be penalized by the 16.5 rpm max rule. If there are no real rules in your area then I would say go for it and let us know what you find.
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Old 02-14-2009, 12:07 PM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

Marauderer,

Cheaters never win.

If you're looking for an event where you can modify your motor, race F3D. Then when you "clean up" your motor, all you'll do is make yourself go slower.
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:29 PM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT


ORIGINAL: js3

Marauderer,

Cheaters never win.

If you're looking for an event where you can modify your motor, race F3D. Then when you "clean up" your motor, all you'll do is make yourself go slower.
js3, I don't really understand your comments. You don't know me and you sure don't know my motors. I guess you are convinced that only the engineers that designed and built an engine knows what is right for it??? Am I wrong? Let me know.
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Old 02-15-2009, 01:16 AM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

i must say even though the top F3D engines like Profi / Nelson come out of the box as a quick engine , they still need work if you want to be world class F3D pylon champ. a good friend of mine Chris Callow who does hold speed records and is in the top 5 best in the world of pylon has his engines set up to perfection by his engineer father Kevin, so if you think you have a full race engine straight out of the box cause it cost you quite a few dollars, think again. i went through all of this when i raced r/c powerboat hydos seeing cheap K& B 21 engines that were worked correctly from stock absolutly blow off expensive Nova rossi / CMB and Picco engines .
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Old 02-15-2009, 06:42 AM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT


ORIGINAL: freeair

i must say even though the top F3D engines like Profi / Nelson come out of the box as a quick engine , they still need work if you want to be world class F3D pylon champ. a good friend of mine Chris Callow who does hold speed records and is in the top 5 best in the world of pylon has his engines set up to perfection by his engineer father Kevin, so if you think you have a full race engine straight out of the box cause it cost you quite a few dollars, think again. i went through all of this when i raced r/c powerboat hydos seeing cheap K& B 21 engines that were worked correctly from stock absolutly blow off expensive Nova rossi / CMB and Picco engines .
Yes, I agree. When I ran F1's back in the 70's I reworked my own engines as a stocker was not competitive. The same for control line combat engines. Clarance Lee and Terry Prather charged more to rework an engine than the cost of the original cost of the engine. Now if you didn't know what to do your engine would run slower than stock. But, if you used sound engineering practices you would always run better.
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Old 02-15-2009, 07:24 AM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT


ORIGINAL: js3

Marauderer,

Cheaters never win.

If you're looking for an event where you can modify your motor, race F3D. Then when you "clean up" your motor, all you'll do is make yourself go slower.

is the concept of reworking/adjusting a motor really cheating? sure, maybe it doesn't work in some places but it's a shame that the challenge of trying to wring a little more out of your engine is frowned upon so much. maybe the people doing the frowning are the ones who don't know how to modify their own engine. it appears some people enjoy modifying as much as they do racing.
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Old 02-15-2009, 07:42 AM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT


ORIGINAL: dhal22


ORIGINAL: js3

Marauderer,

Cheaters never win.

If you're looking for an event where you can modify your motor, race F3D. Then when you "clean up" your motor, all you'll do is make yourself go slower.

is the concept of reworking/adjusting a motor really cheating? sure, maybe it doesn't work in some places but it's a shame that the challenge of trying to wring a little more out of your engine is frowned upon so much. maybe the people doing the frowning are the ones who don't know how to modify their own engine. it appears some people enjoy modifying as much as they do racing.

Is having Little League Teams not keeping score cheating so there is no loser? I say yes it is cheating them out of learning how to deal with winning and losing early in life so they will be better able to cope with life at a later age. Cheating is violating the rules. If it isn't defined in the rules then it isn't cheating it is just being innovative. Now, there are others that say if it isn't covered in the rules you can't do iot. It is the difference between State Farm and AllState insurance companies. One says all that is covered is in thge policy. If it isn't addressed it isn't covered. The other says only those items addressed in the policy are not covered. Which policy would you rather have??? If you don't think that the top race car teams that run up front every race are not pushing the envelope you are sadly mistaken.

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Old 02-15-2009, 12:13 PM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

I say it depends on what class you are running in. The purpose of classes such as club 40 is to make the planes as equal as possible so that it is a pilots race. In our RCPRO warbird races, we use breakout times to even the field. You can do anything you want to your engine as long as you don't break out. If the rules state "stock engine", that is what you should run. If you want to run modified then choose a class that allows it. Of course, then you will be running against other guys who have modified their engines too. Hopefully that is not what you are trying to avoid.

Blessings, Terry
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Old 02-15-2009, 01:02 PM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT


ORIGINAL: Marauderer


ORIGINAL: js3

Marauderer,

Cheaters never win.

If you're looking for an event where you can modify your motor, race F3D. Then when you "clean up" your motor, all you'll do is make yourself go slower.
js3, I don't really understand your comments. You don't know me and you sure don't know my motors. I guess you are convinced that only the engineers that designed and built an engine knows what is right for it??? Am I wrong? Let me know.
Marauderer,

That guy you were told about at the race in FL, if he modified the ports in his TT40, he cheated. Most R/C racing classes specify that the motors must be stock. If you want to modify your motors, race in a class that allows mods. But don't try to do it in a class that specifies stock and unmodified motors. If you do that is cheating.
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Old 02-15-2009, 01:28 PM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

interesting reading..........no one has yet answered his question. He dosen't say he wants to modify his engine- does he? All he wants is an answer- I do not know the answer to his question but others out there may, regards trevor hendersonnz
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Old 02-15-2009, 10:09 PM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

Terry, I am on my way to Palmdale, CA and am looking for some Club40 racing in the area. Can you direct me to find out where? My motors are stock/unmodified as is my SRMII.
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Old 02-15-2009, 10:15 PM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT


ORIGINAL: js3

Marauderer,

That guy you were told about at the race in FL, if he modified the ports in his TT40, he cheated. Most R/C racing classes specify that the motors must be stock. If you want to modify your motors, race in a class that allows mods. But don't try to do it in a class that specifies stock and unmodified motors. If you do that is cheating.
John, you are absolutely correct if the guy modified his engine in a class that says you can't modify it then he is in violation of the rules and should be disqualified. Also you don't have to scream at me to get your personal points across.

As for the timing on the PRO46. I doubt if anyone has actually checked it as it is not a standard enging in any of the national classes of pylon racing.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:01 PM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT


ORIGINAL: Marauderer

Also you don't have to scream at me to get your personal points across.
Marauderer,

You're right. Please accept my apology for my breach of etiquette.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:03 PM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

Other than this thread being in the Q500 forum there really isn't anything to suggest the guy is racing. That and he hasn't posted since the question means the thread is full of hot air at this point.
To address the question more will be gained by taking .040" off the exhaust side of the crank. Don't ask how I know. Also plugging the front of the crank ID back to the window will help.
But before you go to all that trouble be sure to replace the stock rear bearing otherwise you will be wanting to know where to find a sleeve and piston assy.
On the subject of piston/sleeves. If your engine is brand new bake the piston in your oven to swell it up a bit before break in.
As mentioned a set of thinner shims is also simple power. shoot for .007 clearance.
The other question raised about the .46 innards fitting a .40 case. Yes they do...perfectly.

Back to watching the show here for me.[8D]
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:11 PM
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ORIGINAL: js3

You're right. Please accept my apology for my breach of etiquette.
Apology accepted! Enough said
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:20 PM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT


ORIGINAL: vicman

Other than this thread being in the Q500 forum there really isn't anything to suggest the guy is racing. That and he hasn't posted since the question means the thread is full of hot air at this point.
To address the question more will be gained by taking .040" off the exhaust side of the crank. Don't ask how I know. Also plugging the front of the crank ID back to the window will help.
But before you go to all that trouble be sure to replace the stock rear bearing otherwise you will be wanting to know where to find a sleeve and piston assy.
On the subject of piston/sleeves. If your engine is brand new bake the piston in your oven to swell it up a bit before break in.
As mentioned a set of thinner shims is also simple power. shoot for .007 clearance.
The other question raised about the .46 innards fitting a .40 case. Yes they do...perfectly.

Back to watching the show here for me.[8D]
Yo Vic, not so fast. How about a brand and stock # for the crank brgs please? And the supplier if you have that. How long and at what Temp do you cook the piston for? How long is the stock crank brgs good for?? Or should they be changed before flying or do you just need the carb set on the fat side and like 20% oil in the fuel? IMWTK??? Also the .007 between the head and the piston at TDC?
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Old 02-16-2009, 12:50 AM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

I've never heard of anybody racing club 40 out here.

Denis
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Old 02-16-2009, 06:56 AM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

Well, I guess I will have to build a 424 plane. I remember going to Whittier Narrows back in the 70's for F1 racing and reading current events there should be a bit of Quickee racing.
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

Yo Vic, not so fast. How about a brand and stock # for the crank brgs please? And the supplier if you have that. How long and at what Temp do you cook the piston for? How long is the stock crank brgs good for?? Or should they be changed before flying or do you just need the carb set on the fat side and like 20% oil in the fuel? IMWTK??? Also the .007 between the head and the piston at TDC?
My stock bearing let go after a few runs at 17k. The front is fine.
You can get a better one from pspec.com. The call them muffler bearings. I change mine out before I ever use them now.
400 deg for about an hour.
Head hight is from TDC.
Normally I use Byron 15/18 but most of the races over here have been with Cool Power 15%.
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Old 02-16-2009, 11:17 AM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

We have a practice course in Castaic suitable for planes up to 428 and about 10 members that are regulars flying 424, 428 and 422. It's probable the closest place to Palmdale with a 3 pole course. I don't know about Victorville. I don't believe the Tailwinds in Palmdale are set up so you can fly around yourself unless no one else is there. Muroc club on Edwards flys off a dry lake bed. Not good for an engine turning 17k or more on the front of a quickie. The Castaic field is about a 45 min drive from Palmdale.

We used to live in Woodstock and I flew mostly with the club in Paulding county and for a long time with the club in Cherokee.

Denis
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:33 AM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

ORIGINAL: djlyon

We have a practice course in Castaic suitable for planes up to 428 and about 10 members that are regulars flying 424, 428 and 422. It's probable the closest place to Palmdale with a 3 pole course. I don't know about Victorville. I don't believe the Tailwinds in Palmdale are set up so you can fly around yourself unless no one else is there. Muroc club on Edwards flys off a dry lake bed. Not good for an engine turning 17k or more on the front of a quickie. The Castaic field is about a 45 min drive from Palmdale.

We used to live in Woodstock and I flew mostly with the club in Paulding county and for a long time with the club in Cherokee.

Denis
I arrived in Palmdale tonight and brought three planes with me. Two Electric and one Glow. The glow is a SRMII with a TT PRO40 on it. I am waiting to get a couple of 424 planes and then start looking around here in CA for some races.
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Old 02-17-2009, 03:14 AM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

All we have been racing are warbirds so far. The two pole course is easier to set up and use. I am hopeful to get some club 40 events going in the area but have had trouble getting folks interested.

We will be holding an RCPRO Warbird race on April 25th. I let me know if you are interested.

Blessings, Terry
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:49 AM
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Default RE: Intake Timing .46 Pro TT

Hi Terry, I am interested in the Warbirds. I am looking for the specific rules for your club. Any help would be appreciated.
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