Q-500 Racing Discuss AMA 428, AMA 424, and any other variants of Quickie 500 racing

Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

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Old 03-07-2009, 05:28 PM
  #1  
sahartman21
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Default Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Now that you got those 424 foam cores how do you sheet them?

In this thread it will explain how to use epoxy and vacuum bag a wing.

Use a Sharpie to mark the location of the carbon fiber.
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:33 PM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Make the wing skins out of 1/16" thick contest grade balsa.

Tape them together to make a top and a bottom part.

Each section should be about 10 3/8" wide by 48" long.

Tape the top and bottom sections together to make a book.
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:37 PM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Cut 1/2" wide carbon fiber strips to install on the wing.

Attach the strips to the skins.
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:43 PM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Lightly spray the skins with 3M 77 and lay a 3/4 ounce layer of glass cloth on the skins.

Cut a 5" wide strip of 2 ounce glass cloth for the trailing edge.

Lightly spray hinge line with 3M 77 and add the 5" wide strip. This allows about 2.5" wide piece on the top and bottom skins.
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:48 PM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Make a vacuum bag out of a piece of 4 mil plastic tarp.

The plastic is twice the length of the core and it is about 18 " wider.

The purpose is to have the bag ready for the next steps.

A piece of rope is taped along the trailing edge.

Cut a section of paper towel the length of the cores.

The purpose for the rope and the paper towel is to provide a place for the vacuum to flow.
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Old 03-07-2009, 05:56 PM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Mix two containers, each 1.25 ounces, of Skin It epoxy (from Matney's Models) or equal. One container is used per wing half.

Drizzle the glue on the skins and spread it out with a squeegee.

If you run out of glue just continue to squeegee until the glue is spread.

Remove any extra glue with the squeegee as it only adds weight.
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Old 03-07-2009, 06:01 PM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Fold the skins around the core and install it between the shucks.

Center the skins in the shucks and tape the assembly together with masking tape.

Sit the assembly on the bag and apply some latex caulking around the outside edge. This makes the seal for the bag. Two thin beads works better than a single wider one.

Lay the paper towel on the top.
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Old 03-07-2009, 06:10 PM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Fold the top layer of plastic over the cores and join the edges together.

Apply a small amount of weight on the top to hold parts together until the vacuum is pulled.

Turn on your vacuum pump until most of the air is out of the bag. Adjust parts as needed.

My pump is set to turn off at about 6 to 7 inches of Hg vacuum. You don't want to pull too much vacuum or the assembly will be pulled flat.

Leave the cores alone for about 24 hours to allow the glue to dry.

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Old 03-07-2009, 07:47 PM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

I have my pump switch to come on at 4 and off at 6, to set a avrg, of 5. Still that is 2500 lbs for a 500 sqin wing.
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:56 PM
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Bill Vargas
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Helpful suggestion!

Not a good idea to spray that CF with M77 but rather to brush the epoxy on the skins and then lay down the CF. Spraying M77 on the balsa or the CF creates a barrier between the material and the epoxy, that its trying to adhere to.


BV
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Old 03-07-2009, 10:24 PM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

I removed the reference to 3M 77 to glue the carbon fiber to the skins above.

It probably doesn't make a difference on 424 class. There is epoxy below the carbon fiber where it is glued to the glass cloth and foam.

Normal contact glue used to be good enough for attaching the wing skins.

I guess we can examine the remains after a crash to see how well it held up.

Thanks for the comments.
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Old 03-07-2009, 10:47 PM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

I tried something I had seen on another forum , bagging with a "food saver". The problem I saw was that most of the food saver set ups are for 11" bags and are wings are basically 10" wide, so its impossible to get the entire wing in the shucks to fit in the 11" bag. I found a ditributor that sold 15" bags and was left with the task of trying to make a 15" bag fit the 11" sealer. I ended up cutting a 45 degree angle at the end. I was able to buy the bag material 15" by 50 feet,,more than enough to do several wings. In fact I was able to just cut the end of the bag on the first wing, slide it out and reuse the bag. it has its own breather mesh inside so no chance of air lock.
After I slid the wing in, I seal it at 45 degrees then use the machine to pull vacuum and seal the end. There is a port on the top right of the machine for vacuuming special containers. I hooked a gauge to it and the machine pulls 8" of vacuum.
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Old 03-08-2009, 02:13 AM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

I use it all the time, but just a little to hold it in place to get all glass ready to put Skin It Epoxy on
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:30 AM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Turn off the pump.

Then cut the vacuum line near the bag.

Then cut the bag next to the cores.

Pull out the cores and throw away the bag remnants.

The cost is very low for the throw away bags and caulking.
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:32 AM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Trim the leading edge and wing tips flush with the foam cores.
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:39 AM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Mark the location on the trailing edge so that you can cut the cores about 9 3/4" to 9 7/8" wide.

I chose to slide the cores back in the shucks and cut the cores to 9 3/4" wide.
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:43 AM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Remove the cores from the shucks and attach the leading edge.

Mix about .25 ounces of epoxy and spread some on the leading edge and cores.

Tape the leading edge in place until the glue dries
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:50 AM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Kevin Matney convinced me to try applying the 3/4 ounce fiberglass cloth between the cores and the skins.

I have done bagging twice this way and have to admit that you can apply less glue and result in a lighter weight wing using this method.

It is also stiffer and appears stronger.

The cores in this thread weighed in at about 9 ounces with the leading edge. This is considerably lighter than some that I have done in the past.

If you want a lightweight wing, give this method a try.

It works! [8D]
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Old 03-08-2009, 10:14 AM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Keep up the great work,you are doing a good job showing what you have learn.
The way you are doing the wing is the same way I do them. And yet to have a wing fold is 428 q/500. I willing to bet I have 2 to 1 more wings then any one else.
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:05 PM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Nice work guys.
I haven't trimmed the trailing edge yet but do have the LE done and sanded. I'm just over 10.5 oz. This is the first wing I've ever bagged.
Thanks for you help Scott.[8D]
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:08 PM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Please continue!!!! Wing tips...ailerons....servos....final covering.... So much more to cover for us newbie's!
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Old 03-08-2009, 07:57 PM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing


ORIGINAL: sahartman21

Turn off the pump.

Then cut the vacuum line near the bag.

Then cut the bag next to the cores.

Pull out the cores and throw away the bag remnants.

The cost is very low for the throw away bags and caulking.
What are you using to hold the vacuum line into the bag?
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:14 PM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

The vacuum line is just laid between the two pieces of plastic tarp.

Tape the plastic tube and rope to the tarp.

Then apply some latex caulk over the plastic line and close the bag.


For the time being those that want to see how to make wing tips, install ailerons, etc., should look at the Pit Bull construction thread. It is also in R/C Universe.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8119002/tm.htm



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Old 03-09-2009, 09:44 AM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

Thanks a bunch for this tutorial! I love it! Newbie Question: When making the skins, is it necessary to edge glue the sheeting first in order to make the full chord-width sheet(s), or are you just trimming them to match and then the epoxy and glass serves the purpose of edge gluing the skins. I remember when we used to use contact cement, it was necessary to trim and edge glue the sheeting first.
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Old 03-09-2009, 11:00 AM
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Default RE: Vacuum Bag that 424 Wing

You don't need to glue the skins together. Just trim them to fit if needed.

Tape holds them together until the wing skin epoxy dries.
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