Q-500 Racing Discuss AMA 428, AMA 424, and any other variants of Quickie 500 racing

Q-25 Pylon Racing

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Old 03-14-2009, 10:36 AM
  #1  
g.hodgesrc
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Default Q-25 Pylon Racing

Hello from Texas!

Most of my posts will be about our entry level club Q-25 pylon racing. I would like to get some feed back from around the country from the guys flying Q500 airframes with OS.25FX engines as an entry pylon racing class like we are in North Texas.

We started as a stock .25 engine club pylon racing class on a (2) pole 450' course where you could use any airframe, wingspan, square inches, or wing shape (we just wanted to race something). All pylon racers had to ROG raise off ground from an idling start on the starting line. I know "pretty crude", but it made things a little more even when one guy would build a thin winged rocket and the next guy would be flying a Rookie 20. We flew this "off the wall class" until the ARF Q-500 pylon racers started showing up and beating all our other racers.

In 2007 we changed our rules to only allow AMA 424 Q-500 type airframes and adopted a modified version of the 424 rules. What started as a small grass field sport club of 65 to 80 members with 6 to 8 pylon racers racing in a "Club Members Only" pylon event has grown to (35) pilots from (8) different clubs racing on (3) different flying fields for our Q-25 Sport Pylon Series in 2008. Here is the link to our 2008 Q-25 season racing results showing Pilots, Clubs, Race Results, Total Points and Overall finish position: http://www.txwings.com/?q=node/207 Also, see Welcome Fort Worth Thunderbirds for Q-25 Race Series hosting clubs and pilot photos.

For 2009 we have (40) pilots registered from (8) different clubs as of this date.
Link to Q-25 Pylon Race Dates - 2009: http://www.txwings.com/?q=node/278
Link to Q-25 Pylon Race Rules - 2009: http://www.txwings.com/?q=node/277

Our first Q-25 Race Series Overall Champion for 2007 was Jason Skrasek of Fort Worth Thunderbirds. The trophy is awarded each year to the overall points champion who in turn awards it to the next years champion. The engraved plaque then goes to the pilot who won the year before. The plaque is also engraved with the names of the 2nd - 3rd place finishers and the name of the clubs they fly for. The Champion Trophy was made from different pylon racing trophies of long time pylon racer and aeronautical engineer Ed Rankin of the Fort Worth Thunderbirds. Ed was a former Formula 1 Pylon Champion, past President of NMPRA, and is still active in giant scale pylon racing both in racer design, kits, and race sponsorship.

Thanks for reading my post, your comments will be appreciated.
Gene
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Old 03-14-2009, 02:35 PM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

Gene,

I've had some people ask me about using fiberglass fuselages in your Q-25 class. They are legal in 424 as there are no restrictions on fuselage materials. Your rules say

AMA Event 424 legal Quickie 500 racers only: Viper 500, Dominator 500, Predator I or II, Sonic 500, Scat Cat 500, etc.
Then follow that with

Aircraft can be ARF ( aircraft must be stock "Out Of The Box" ), kit or scratch built (aircraft must be built per plan or Event 424 dimensions), no airframe modifications allowed.
The "no airframe modifications allowed" doesn't fit with the AMA 424 rules.

And while "Wing and tail must be constructed of solid wood or wood over a solid foam core." is consistent with AMA 424, the "No composite material airframes, wings, or tail feathers are allowed." is not.

Can you provide some clarification?

Most groups I know of are using AMA 424 with a deviation for the engine (and prop in some cases) and leave the airframe specification to the AMA Rulebook.

As you guys start building more, this is more of an issue. While there are laser cut kits out there, Matney has some good Q-500 planes with fiberglass fuselages, and of course I have mine as well.
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:50 AM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

Don,

We started our Q-25 pylon racing and our main rules were established when we had (3) ARF pylon racers being the Viper 500, Predator II, and Sonic 500 to choose from. We also had the Dominator and Scat Cat 500 kits as well and as you know the ARF Predator II and Sonic 500 were both discontinued leaving us just the Viper to race. Some of our pilots just wanted to build their own racers from kits or plans and due to the tail issues, problems with poor glue or very little glue in the joints on the ARF racers we changed our rules to allow AMA 424 legal Quickie 500 racers only. Either built from kits or plans using the AMA 424 rules as our guidelines with the exception of "no composites". The main reason for this rule was to keep the cost down to get more club sport flyers involved in some form of entry level pylon racing. As you can see from my post our formula has been working so far and our number of pilots has grown for the last three years.

With our pylon pilot base growing and most of our pylon racing skills improving we are looking at trying to start an additional class for next year. Some of our more advanced pilots have ask us to have a faster racing class and the AMA 424 class would work well for our next racing level. They could move up using their current racers or they could use any airframe allowed in AMA 424 including those with composite fuselages.

Maybe I need to start a poll or hopefully I can get some feedback through this forum post about allowing the composite fuselage racers in the Q-25 class now, is there an advantage or not? Let me hear from you guys out there that have already crossed this bridge, your help would be appreciated.

Gene
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:00 PM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing


The main reason for limiting designs to non-composite wings and tail surfaces appears to be to keep the cost down.

Matney's Models offers many kits with fiberglass fuselages under $100.

I think you ought to allow a fiberglass fuselage as the kit cost is still in a low price range.

FYI - The "Pit Bull", "Mad Dog", and "Dawg Gone It (fiberglass and foam)" are available for under $100


http://www.matneymodels.com/q500.html
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Old 03-16-2009, 03:45 PM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

We allow any AMA 424 legal Q500 airfame to race in quickie 25. The rule is AMA 424, .25 FX, APC 8x6, 3.25# min weight. Keeps things real simple. Some of the CDs have added a max rpm rule but it's clearly stated on the pre race flyer.
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Old 03-16-2009, 04:50 PM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

This is interesting! We have a similar class over here in the UK, with the models very much in the Quickie look, but the main difference being that they are a 300sq inch wing, not 500. It's a formula that is very well attended over here. Pop over to www.rcmf.co.uk and have a lookie in the Pylon boards - there's a section there with airframe pics etc. Motors are the OS25 among others.

Zim
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Old 03-17-2009, 09:21 PM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

Cool, Gene used a group photo that I'm in! I really love the Q25 series here. It seems to really work, and keeps growing. I have had no problems with the basic airframe/engine rules, they are easy to stick to and the planes are very close. I would love to see 424 come around, we have to drive a pretty good ways to see anything above what we do. I am afraid if we change too many rules, or try to add another class, racing will start to decline. Might just be in my head though. The composite question is a tough one. Allow them and all of a sudden you can't win if you don't have one? If you can't afford one, quit? Or if you don't have the time to build? These comments are what you will hear if composites are allowed. I don't see where a composite fuse/Viper wing would be a huge advantage. I really don't care, you won't see me in the Winner pics no matter what plane I have! I think a fuse for the Viper wing (especially one with a conventional tail) would help out. I hate seeing a landing that's a little "off" and the Viper breaking in two! So I really don't care what the fuses are made of myself. Legalize them so Don can sell more! (shameless plug for ya, how about a discount?) More and more options appear everyday it seems.
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Old 03-17-2009, 09:47 PM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

ORIGINAL: Duane-RCU

... I think a fuse for the Viper wing (especially one with a conventional tail) would help out. I hate seeing a landing that's a little "off" and the Viper breaking in two! ...
I'm really going to try to get the Screamer ready to fly in the next few days. We've had rain for almost a week, plus I was trying to catch up on orders.

Speaking of fuselages that fit the Viper wing, I have acquired the rights to sell the Venom by Dan Kane. It is a V-tail, but it is real similar to the HurriKane and is a tab-lock kit. And it uses the S8064/Viper 500 wing. I expect to have some in 2 to 3 weeks. That's one reason I'm [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8588254/tm.htm]Building a better Viper wing[/link]

Because of a new friend down in Texas who is playing with airfoils, I got out a Smasher prototype tonight. I still have the jigs and could build them in wood as well. Any wing can be fitted to this fuselage. It has 1/16" holes drilled at the formers on the thrustline for easy alignment with wing templates.
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Old 03-25-2009, 09:50 PM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

Don, any ideas on price for the Venom fuse kit? I bet a few can be sold here when you are ready.
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Old 03-26-2009, 06:18 AM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

I'm planning on $60 for the fuselage kit and $125 for the fuselage kit and a sheeted wing. Plus shipping. I think I can ship one or two fuselage kits via USPS Priority Mail for under $10.
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:52 AM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

March wasn't good to us in North Texas. Our first Q-25 pylon Series Race #1, March 15th was rescheduled do to muddy field conditions and was rescheduled to March 22th for the rain out date. It was a beautiful sunny Sunday with one exception 18-25MPH winds gusting to 30-35MPH. With six of our pilots not able to make the rescheduled date we had (15) pilots show up to race. We waited until our pilot's meeting to take a vote which was unanimous to cancel the race. So March Race #1 will be scored as a zero for all our pilots. We did talk about amending our Q-25 pylon rules to use any AMA 424 legal airframe which would include using fiberglass fuselages on our racers. We will still use only the OS 25FX engine, APC or Master Airscrew 8x6 prop, commercially blended fuel with a maximum of 15% nitromethane, and a 3.25# min weight. After a long pros and cons debate we took a vote of the pilots present with a 14 to 1 vote in favor of the rule changes. I will keep you posted on these rules update as soon as the rest of our pilots vote. I think it will pass and this will give us more pylon races to use in our pylon series. Here is a photo of our race #1 pilots notice no racers in the photo the wind was gusting so high they kept them in the trucks.

Next Q-25 Pylon Series Race #2 will be April 19, 2009 at FW Thunderbirds Field.

Gene
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Old 03-29-2009, 12:38 PM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

Gene,

Thank-you for sharing the success you’re having with the Q-25 series in TX. My advice, while a little late but would apply to future votes, to you about fiberglass fuselages is simple, if more then 1 person doesn’t want in your area, don’t allow them.

While there are decades of racing experience here on the forums, only you and your group know what’s best for your area. In my opinion, if ain’t broke, don’t fix it. And from the growth in your area, it’s obvious what you guys are doing ain’t broke.

We’re having success with 3-pole short course 424 here locally in KC. While I always look to the more seasoned CD’s and promoters for past experiences and ideas, ultimately the decision has to be what’s best for our racers.

I recently took over as webmaster for the NMPRA. I’d like to invite you to keep us posted their as well on your series. The NMPRA has a renewed appreciation for the importance of local racing series.

Keep up the good work.
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Old 04-18-2009, 04:47 AM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

A.J.

Thank you for your comments. It's great to get support from other racing groups and I will be glad to send you some of our Q-25 racing information to post on the NMPRA website. I appreciate the support of our entry level club racing. We have our next race April 19th at Ft. Worth Thunderbird Field. Hopefully the rain and winds will be kind to us this month.

Gene
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:04 PM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

A Q-25 Pylon Race finally in North Texas!

Q-25 Pylon Series Race #2 at FW Thunderbirds Field - (16) Pilots - (4) Clubs

Congratulations to the winners: (1st) Brian Gates - FW T-Birds, (2nd) Nathan Haycock- TxWings, (3rd) Gary Alphin - FW T-Birds.

We finally got a pylon race in the books. Nineteen pilots were present with only sixteen flying in the sunny but windy conditions. Due to the 18-22 mph steady crosswinds with gusts nearing 30 mph out of the Northwest we used the flying start for this race. I'm happy to report there were no midairs and only one racer damaged on landing. Thank you to all the volunteers who helped run the races, our race staff, pilots, spectators, and hosting clubs who make our Q-25 Series Races possible. Hope to see you all at the next race May 10, 2009 at Texas Wings Club Field - Newark, TX. BTW, our youngest race pilot is 16 and our senior race pilot is 72. Regardless of our ages we all sure enjoy our club pylon racing and the friendships we have made with the members of other clubs who come to race with us.


Link to Pylon photos / Race #2 photos: [link]http://txwings.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=9598[/link]

Link to Race #2 Standings: [link]http://txwings.com/?q=node/302[/link]


Guys, lets see some of photos and standings of your Q-25 races.

Gene

Texas Wings & FW Thunderbirds


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Old 04-24-2009, 01:22 PM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

That's great Gene, but we all know you won't come just a bit south to where the Club 40's run. It's Ok to be scared!![sm=cry_smile.gif]
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:00 PM
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I know it's OK to be scared, but I have been a little South (Waco, TX) a neutral field, have been way South (New Waverly, TX) to your home field, and have even been high (10,500 feet) and jumped. So what are you scared of? Are you afraid to come up North to our home fields where the Q-25s roam?

Photo #1: Gene, Jim, & Eric at Club 40 / Q-25 Challenge - Waco, TX.

Photo #2: Gene at Tri-County Barnstormer Field - New Waverly, TX.

Photo #3: My first jump over Hillsboro, TX. (South of Fort Worth)

Photo #4: My Q-25 racer.

Gene

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Old 04-25-2009, 08:48 AM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing


Are you afraid to come up North to our home fields where the Q-25s roam?
Remember boys.. it ain't really "North" until ya cross the Red River, aka "the BORDER"
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:08 PM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

Bring all the smak talk a little east where we race em all and let God sort them out![>:]
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:15 AM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

Vicman,

Hopefully some of us can come over to North Carolina someday to meet and race with your group. There seems to be strong racing support in your area and state. Don has been a great help with some of his products. Most of us are rookies to this racing game, but are sure having fun even at our entry level of pylon racing. I would rather race at any level than not have raced at all!

Gene
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:28 AM
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ORIGINAL: g.hodgesrc

I would rather race at any level than not have raced at all!

Gene
AMEN BROTHER!!
I'm sure Ill see you soon Gene, and then it'll be on!! I wish we had another Q25/C40 race this year,, that steak sure was good.
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:17 PM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

You guys missed an awsome day of racing here in NC yesterday!
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:23 PM
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Default RE: Q-25 Pylon Racing

Gotta start looking for some OS .25 before I get home. I saw in the results that someone named Mary T. was racing Q 25 and ended with 8 points. Daughter or wife of a racer. Unusual for a women to race but it is great.
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:30 PM
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Barry,
She is a pilot on her own, not the wife or daughter of, and came out to hang with friends.
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:54 PM
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Wow, that is neat. My wife were having dinner with her boss and the subject of RC came up and his wife would like to learn how to fly. I just need to set up my buddy box and get it all trimmed out and will ask her to come try it.
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:37 PM
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Gotta start looking for some OS .25 before I get home. I saw in the results that someone named Mary T. was racing Q 25 and ended with 8 points. Daughter or wife of a racer. Unusual for a women to race but it is great.
Texas Wings had a women Q-25 pylon racer for several years then she started flying 25-35% 3D aerobatic planes. Kat still has her Viper Q-25 racers (notice she recover it herself) and is thinking about making some of our races this year. Let me tell you, she never cut you any slack and made the podium several times. Here is a photo of her first podium where she finished second overall out of eight.

Gene
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