Q-500 Racing Discuss AMA 428, AMA 424, and any other variants of Quickie 500 racing

New Viper 500 RTC

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Old 05-07-2009, 11:32 AM
  #1  
DonStegall
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Default New Viper 500 RTC

I was searching on Tower today and found out they have a new version of the Viper 500. It is a Ready-To-Cover that is $10 cheaper than the ARF.

This should make it easier to beef up the weak areas and cover as you want without having to strip. Plus you could glass and paint if you want.

Check out the link at [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWPJ0&P=7]Great Planes Viper 500 RTC .25-.46,52" [/link]
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Old 05-08-2009, 01:15 AM
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freeair
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

boy $10 cheaper without covering. is it really worth saving $10. for a bare fuse and wings ? when you look at the time involved in covering a complete model , i would rather have the completed model . as we know the only external beefing up is around the rear tail area of fuse plus pinning of the v-tail underside to top block and pinning of the engine bulkhead. maybe if Great Planes did some thinking on these weak issued areas they could supply a totally finshed model ready to race, even down to nylon wing bolts.
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Old 05-08-2009, 05:25 AM
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s. wallace
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

I've moved beyond Viper's but I still get involved helping new guys with theirs.
The covering so bad on every one I've seen it takes darn near
as long to re-iron the entire model as it would to cover an arc in the first place.

The two I owned were absolutely dreadful and took many hours to re-work the covering.
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Old 05-08-2009, 06:37 AM
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DonStegall
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

I'm not promoting the Viper 500 RTC. I just saw it and wanted to put the word out. Even without the covering, the wing is probably still overweight unless they changed the way they make it.

Guys can get my Venom with a sheeted wing for only $125 if they like the Viper airfoil and build a much better plane in not a lot of time.

There are many good options for guys that will build out there now. And with sheeted wings available with or for these laser cut kits, building is easier than ever.

I have actually thought about doing a Viper 500 fiberglass fuselage with the incidences corrected. I could get an RTC and turn it into a plug in very short order.
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Old 05-08-2009, 03:48 PM
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Kevin Matney
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

I'm working on a Viper Dog to fit the Viper wing. I'm making a new mold, ready in 1 month.
Fiberglass fuse $65.00 and shipping
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Old 05-09-2009, 03:01 AM
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tIANci
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

The Viper is still a good plane to start out with, still a discount of $10 is really not much. Guess, they are leveraging on those who want to looks different. My Viper is still a fun fast plane to fly but like what some have said, time to move to better stuff.
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Old 05-09-2009, 05:35 AM
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daven
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

I wonder if they will be offering uncovered wings only?
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Old 05-10-2009, 02:06 AM
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

looking at the add for this ARC Viper, it seems there not even adding the wing center glassing patch. so for a saving of only $10 is it worth it ?
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Old 05-10-2009, 08:05 AM
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scausey
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

I don't think Hobbico is going after the racer market with the Viper. They sent me a RTC to do a review on for MA and it looks good for a racer that want to have a plane other than Red or White. I know when I first started racing the AMA 424 locally, that was the first thing I did was to strip the covering and replace with my own colors. The RTC gives you the chance to do that without stripping it all down. No matter what you get you will need to do some mods to go racing with the Viper. The one thing that I did to the review Viper is put some 3/4oz. glass on the rear section on the fuse around the LE of the tail, hoping this will help out with the weak area. You still have to Glass the center section on the wing and around the nose of the fuse, in my thoughts, it does no good to pin the firewall because there is no ply up there to begin with. If you replace the top hatch with ply you could go ahead and pin it then, but you would also need to replace the bottom as well to make it durable. The best way is the glass the nose per the instructions and use epoxy and chopped glass inside the nose area around the firewall and under the wing hold down, and landing gear block. I have not checked the tail yet for incidence problem, but will soon and get back to everyone in the article.

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Old 05-10-2009, 08:34 AM
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tIANci
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

My Viper firewall can't hold. I need to remove the covering and do some real glass work. The Viper RTC is nice, you can now look good racing cheaper. I mean a good Q500 is $550 ... Viper is lovely but there needs to be some work and that might as well be done in a RTC stage.
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Old 05-10-2009, 08:58 AM
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

Scott,

Thanks for the info.

What I do on the firewall is cut a piece of 1/4" plywood and fit it inside the existing firewall. Then pin the new firewall. Hopefully the RTC doesn't have glass on the inside of the tank area.

I have a unused Viper fuselage that has perfect incidences. I have decided to strip it and make a plug out of it. The new plane will be called the CopperRattleHead. I will keep the price as low as possible. The tail will be glued in. I will probably do a composite tail and the linkages will be internal on the composite tail. So with my composite Viper wing, an all molded composite Viper will be available.
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Old 05-10-2009, 09:48 AM
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

Don ... ship to the Far East? May I be the 1st? Hehehehee ...
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:30 AM
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djlyon
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

Actually I would have paid $10 more for an ARC Viper to reduce the amount of work to make it right.
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:48 AM
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scausey
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

Its thing like this from Hobbico that will make it right hopefully. I will send them an honest report detailing any problems that I have or remarks about the kit. I will be checking the incidence very close and looking at everything as a whole. If there is any problems that would be constructive to the build and future changes, I will be letting them know about them.

Don,
There is no glassing done at all with the fuse, as we all know all the other fuse kits out there are built with 3/16" sides, and the Viper is built with 1/8" sides... that is one problem why the Viper fuse is weaker than most kits available. I don't really understand your piece of ply your referring about to pin to, but you have to have a solid piece of material on both top and bottom of fuse to pin the firewall to. So replacing the top and bottom of the Fuse near the firewall is the best way I know how, and if you know of a different/ better way, let us know. This is done by Chuck Bridge himself and I have NEVER had a firewall come out on a Vortex(so this is a proven method).

Just remember, the Viper is designed for a Sport plane and not exactly for the racing side. I think we all tend to think the plane was designed for racing, but the racing community is Very small and the Hobbico is going after the masses and not the SIG. So we will have to make some mods to the Viper to make it the best racer for the money.


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Old 05-10-2009, 12:05 PM
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DonStegall
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

Scott,

Actually the Viper sides are only 3/32" balsa. Not even 1/8". And the doublers are 3/32" light ply.

If you chisel out the triangle stock behind the firewall and put in a piece of 1/4" plywood (after removing the blind nuts), you can pin the new piece of plywood from the sides. And it goes through the 3/32" ply doublers. Granted, it would be good to use 1/8" ply for the hatch and pin from the top as well. And probably do an inch or so of the bottom. The bottom is curved though, so replacing the whole nose bottom is not the easiest unless you do a little extra work.

I talked to Mike Cross about the deficiencies in the Viper right after it came out. Some were addressed. Others were not.

I was excited to see the RTC/ARC. Even though I'm competing with it, Great Planes has much bigger audience and if the general population preps the plane better and has a better experience, that is good for pylon. We need all the new blood we can get.
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Old 05-10-2009, 04:02 PM
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

To those considering getting into AMA 424 pylon racing:

The Viper is a PERFECT airplane to start out with! There are a few improvements that could be made, just like there are with every other ARF out there, but making the improvements is fun and just another part of the hobby.

And for those who say they have "moved" past the Viper - HA! We had a local race this weekend and we had Vipers in both 424 and 428 (where the improvements are a must). I have flown Vipers in our local 428 races for the past 3 years, leaving my composites at home (Vortex, VMaxs, Shotguns, Neme-Qs, Slingshot). I would say the Viper, when set up correctly, offers 90% of the flying quality of a composite at 20% of the cost. Most local racers are fine with this!

The ARC will allow me to make the minor improvements more easily, and since I enjoy recovering them anyway, I won't have to spend so much time stripping the covering off. And those who have stripped a Viper all know the red leaves too much adhesive behind compared to the white covering, especially at the wing center section.

Kurt
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Old 05-10-2009, 05:40 PM
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC


ORIGINAL: Bozarth

To those considering getting into AMA 424 pylon racing:

The Viper is a PERFECT airplane to start out with! There are a few improvements that could be made, just like there are with every other ARF out there, but making the improvements is fun and just another part of the hobby.

And for those who say they have "moved" past the Viper - HA! We had a local race this weekend and we had Vipers in both 424 and 428 (where the improvements are a must). I have flown Vipers in our local 428 races for the past 3 years, leaving my composites at home (Vortex, VMaxs, Shotguns, Neme-Qs, Slingshot). I would say the Viper, when set up correctly, offers 90% of the flying quality of a composite at 20% of the cost. Most local racers are fine with this!

The ARC will allow me to make the minor improvements more easily, and since I enjoy recovering them anyway, I won't have to spend so much time stripping the covering off. And those who have stripped a Viper all know the red leaves too much adhesive behind compared to the white covering, especially at the wing center section.

Kurt
Kurt, when I say "I've moved past the Viper" I am saying that because I prefer to build my own models, from kits offered by the US pylon racing community instead of cheaply made Chinese arf. There's no doubt a Viper flown by a good pilot is VERY capable of winning any 424 event, not debating that...
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:56 PM
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

love the comment about the Viper being designed for a sport plane only and not designed for racing. why are all the specs on this model exactly measured for pylon race rules ?
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Old 05-11-2009, 12:03 AM
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

ORIGINAL: scausey
...There is no glassing done at all with the fuse, ...
Scott Causey

Yes, there is glass inside and out on the front of the fuse. Maybe you have an older version. (added: I am referring to the ARF - Scott is probably talking about the ARC)

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Old 05-11-2009, 07:57 PM
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC


ORIGINAL: freeair

love the comment about the Viper being designed for a sport plane only and not designed for racing. why are all the specs on this model exactly measured for pylon race rules ?
Just to clarify, I did not say " only as a sport plane" read the forum correctly next time..... and it is in specs of the 424 and 428 class ... if you think that a company like Hobbico would limilt their marketing to just a small part of the RC Community.. well you do the math.

This is what I love about internet racers, you try to help out and inform people about new ideas, product, and how to's ... and this is what you get... insults from someone that can't read to begin with.

S. Causey
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:50 PM
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

yes the Viper is designed for both sport and AMA Q-500 racing . here is a small note on this model.
This model is designed for sport flying and AMA quickie 500 racing , we will not quote all of the AMA regulations for quickie 500 racing in this manual. any information provided here regarding racing is provided for informational purposes only and is not guaranteed to be accurate.
I do understand the manufacturer of this model stating this as a sport model or pylon race model for sales reasons but really it is more a race model than the general sport type model dont you think.
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:52 AM
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

My Viper ARF has the firewall open up twice now. I think its my fault. When I get bored I like to fly at full throttle and go up high then do a kamikaze dive and pull out hard. Guess that the plane was not made for such nonsense. Still like what some say, its a great plane to start out with. I probably would not mind the ARC since its unglassed and we can make the necessary mods with ease.

Mine ran over the weekend with a TT46, Jettstream muffler, 15% Cool Power, OS No. 8 and the APC 8.8x8.75 ... she was so sweet.
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:27 AM
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

with the last mod Viper ARF they added full glassing to the inner tank bulkhead area plus the exterior front fuse is also glassed, to make this bullet proof so your engine dont come off the front is to either add 1/8 th cane pins to both side of the engines bulkhead or do what i do which is ,remove the covering from fuse up to the leading edge to where the wing sits plus remove covering from the top cowl, epoxy the top cowl lid on then apply a layer of 2 oz glass cloth around the fuse side from leading edge to leading edge and around the top lid to bottom like a wrap. then you drill small holes [ 2 per side = 8 of ] into the bulkhead and epoxy the can skewers into this. when all has cured dry sand lightly so all is smooth for re covering this front area. don,t worry too much about sealing off the tank area as the tank should not be right up front if running 40 sized engines [ c.o.g. area ] you can still feed new fuel lines through the side to tank. actually i,m still running a Viper in 424 class powered by TTPro 46 that the only mods are cane pins only [ 2 per side ] maybe i have well balanced props.
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:02 AM
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

Freeair ... my Viper ARF got the full GP glass job. Its not working. The GP inner glass job sucks, the glass and balsa tri stock comes off easy. I shall try that you say. Dub Jett told me to do a full glass job as that is what the do down in Texas. At the moment I think its really my fault, because of the way I fly. I am pushing it too hard and unnecessarily. Time to learn to fly PROPERLY!
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:22 AM
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Default RE: New Viper 500 RTC

if you do the cross patch method plus pin all 4 sides, there is no way the engine will drop out. also make sure your prop is perfectly balanced as most cases of prop vibrations can cause premature engine bulkhead failure.
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