Q-500 Racing Discuss AMA 428, AMA 424, and any other variants of Quickie 500 racing

AMA 424 Sport Quickie on a 2 pole course

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Old 05-09-2009, 10:12 AM
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DonStegall
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Default AMA 424 Sport Quickie on a 2 pole course

AMA 424 Sport Quickie on a 2 pole course has been discussed in the Q-25 thread. I think we need a topic just for this discussion.

There has been talk of using a 450' course and talk of using a 608' course.

One thing about using the 608' course is that you could just take out one of the poles of the long course and have the course. This could also be applied to the AMA Short Course which is 475.5' long. I have used a 525' course and it is comfortable for a quick pace. 475' would be a little quickier.

So I am proposing that we use a 475.5' course even though the 10 lap distance is not a nice even distance. All you have to do is take down one pylon from the 3 pole short course and you have the course ready made.

I'm also proposing a 225' minimum setback from the pilots to the pylons, and a 350' setback to spectators. 300' to judges and the pits.

I am going to set this course up on my field and give it a try. How about some of you guys trying it also?

Let's work on this now so we can get a proposal in for the next AMA rules cycle.
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Old 05-09-2009, 11:01 AM
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dwbebens
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Default RE: AMA 424 Sport Quickie on a 2 pole course

Don and All;

We here in Nashville have been running our version of Quickee (we call it Q-400) on a 500' two-pole course for years. We use the TT GP 42 engine. Originally, long before I move to the area, the hosting organization had a beginner class (Avistar airframe) which used this engine. This engine was chosen for our Quickee class because it was thought a person could transition to Quckee from the beginner class without having to buy another engine. We've found that this engine spins the APC 9-6 prop about 1K rpm lower than the TT Pro 40. Did I mention that any user supplied fuel was allowed? Since then, we have implemented Club 40 for our beginner class using the same engine.

We have no trouble keeping our Q-400 planes on the 500' course. Also, some of our warbird planes had been much faster than a typical 424 plane, and even then, we had no trouble keeping them on the course. This year, with our rules changes in Warbird, I suspect the fastest of them will be around 424 speeds. We find that there is no need for turn lights or any such signals. According to reports from our turn judges, many of our guys can judge the turns to within 5' to 10' on a regular basis. The turn judges use air horns to signal cuts. The pilots are positioned 1/3 the way down the course, centered on the start/finish line and are about 350' from the pylon line. We use a flying start.

We don't require that the planes actually go "around" the pylon, just that they "go the distance" as seen from the pylon judges stationed way off course and perpendicular to the pylon line - - just as long as the planes do not go over our "no-fly" and "dead" lines. Most pilots consistently go around the pylons to the best of their abilities. Since we are so far back from the pylon line, we don't seem to have any problems with encroaching on these lines.

According to our experiences, it sound to me that your proposal for a 475' two-pole course for 424 would be suitable.

Doug Bebensee



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Old 05-09-2009, 03:49 PM
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Default RE: AMA 424 Sport Quickie on a 2 pole course

Don, Doug, and All:

Since we do not fly 424 yet in North Texas I just wanted to add my $.02 and comment on what Don said about trying to establish a common pylon distance. Several of the Clubs in Fort Worth and Dallas area can meet the new setback requirements for 2 pole only, but can only use a 450'-475' maximum course length. Any longer length becomes a fly beyond issue with only 50'-100' maximum distances to fly. I know that seems a lot, but flying too long is our biggest problem for first time and other race pilots. So pylon courses between 500'-600+ are out for us.

We find that there is no need for turn lights or any such signals. According to reports from our turn judges, many of our guys can judge the turns to within 5' to 10' on a regular basis. The turn judges use air horns to signal cuts. The pilots are positioned 1/3 the way down the course, centered the start/finish line and are about 350' from the pylon line. We use a flying start.We don't require that the planes actually go "around" the pylon, just that they "go the distance" as seen from the pylon judges stationed way off course and perpendicular to the pylon line - - just as long as the planes do not go over our "no-fly" and "dead" lines. Most pilots consistently go around the pylons to the best of their abilities. Since we are so far back from the pylon line, we don't seem to have any problems with encroaching on these lines.

According to our experiences, it sound to me that your proposal for a 475' two-pole course for 424 would be suitable.

Doug Bebensee
Like Doug's group we find that there is no need for turn lights or any such signals. According to reports from our turn judges, many of our better first year and most of our current guys can judge the turns to within 5' to 20' on a regular basis. We encourage all pilots to go around the pylon and try to keep them on each side of the centerline to avoid midairs, but just require them to make the distance and as long as the planes do not go over our "no-fly" and "dead" lines. Since our judges are also stationed way off course (275' or more) and perpendicular to the pylon line we use radios on two different channels for cut calls. Our pilots are 225' from pylon centerline for Q-25 and are also located off centerline towards the #1 pylon. We use the 1-3 / 2-4 full throttle release start (no push offs) for takeoffs and 2-4 / 1-3 on alternating rounds so there is no advantage. So far no ground takeoff midairs to date for the last three years, but at least (4) flying start midairs when we use them if the wind is out of the North.

As I stated in other posts for Q-25, 400' is too short for first time club/sport pilots wanting to pylon race while 500' or more was a little boring for our Q-25 racers. That is why we changed our course rules to 450' for 2 pole. This is close to the 424 AMA short course distance Don mentioned of 475.5' if you dropped the third pole. I don't think our pilots would have a problem moving back to 475.5' for both Q-25 & 424 2 pole allowing same day, same course racing!

Gene


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Old 05-29-2009, 12:22 PM
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Default RE: AMA 424 Sport Quickie on a 2 pole course

I'm bumping this thread up as a result of the discussion in the General Racing Discussion thread.

Getting a better course and smaller course setbacks for 2 pole 424 racing could only help as people move from Club 40 and Quickie 25 to AMA 424 planes. Then they can be better prepared when there are 3 pole races they can go to. And maybe they will even work toward getting 3 pole racing at more fields.

My field is only now getting dry enough to use. We've had so much rain that I've had a hard time just keeping the runway mowed. But I am going to get a 475.5 2 pole course set up and try 424 planes on it.
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