jaka

Hi!
Can the Nelson Q-500 engine (both LS and short stroke) be allowed in Q-500 racing when there is no longer a manufacturer making /selling these engines?

daven

My Feedback: (1)

yes, once an engine is legal, it is always legal.

[email protected]

Yes,.............it would be unreasonable, and unrealistic to think differently. The AMA rules are quite clear on the subject and i assume your country has similar wording. Henry is still producing spares, regards trevor Hendersonnz

Kevin Matney

My Feedback: (1)

Tell me what you think??
From the AMA rule book.
Availability of Engines and Parts
6.1. Declaration.
6.1.1. Any person, group of persons, or business entity may declare themselves to be a manufacturer or source of commercially available engines or parts. Such a person, group, or entity does not have to fully or partially fabricate complete engines or engine parts, but must fully comply with any and all applicable quantity and availability requirements applicable to the event(s) the engine or part is qualified to be used in.
6.1.2. An acceptable declaration shall contain a list of all uniquely identifiable engine assemblies, sub assemblies, or parts for each applicable competition event. The list shall contain any pertinent part, assembly, or product identification numbers plus source-approved or recommended replacement, alternative, or modified part associations. Furthermore, the declaration shall state that the listed products conform to the current AMA rules for competition events of interest.

daven

My Feedback: (1)

Check page 3 of the AMA rules.

Under Commercially available:

b. if an engine or part was once legal it is always legal, with one exception. The exception if this engine or part is specifically made illegal by another rule.

So, even if the motor is no longer commercially available, if it was at one time, and not ruled out by a future rule, it is still legal.

[email protected]

thats exactly as I understood it..........THnz

Kevin Matney

My Feedback: (1)

c. The manufacturer or other source has given the notice required by subsection 6 of this section, Availability of Engines and parts, and received a letter of approval from the chairman of the RC Racing Contest Board; and:
Or this
RCR-3 Engine: A two-stroke cycle, glow ignition, reciprocating-piston internal combustion engine. For purposes of events requiring stock or commercially available

dwc1

which is exactly why, until the last "N" has met it's demise, our ama events will die a slow death. a new guy trying to get in to the event can not buy the equipment that is being used...

wrstew

My Feedback: (30)

Correct me if I am missing something, but has not Dub matched or even bettered the LS that has gone out of production? Last I heard he was running full tilt building very good engines. Is there really a shortage, or is this a fear that at some time there will only be one supplier and everyone flying the top classes will be using similar power? Randy

daven

My Feedback: (1)

I would say that Dubs LS q40 motor is competitive, but the Q500 motor is not quite there yet.

I think he would say the same thing if you asked him.

garys

Sometimes you'd think this is the mob, and not a hobby. Apparently if you're a manufacturer you can't leave the "racing family". Dub's making good motors, and having a larger market share will help his development. Profi was close a couple years ago, I think they just hurt themselves by way over-promising and under-delivering. Before they sold many engines they were saying they were going to set the world on fire. After they fell on their face at Winterfest they went and hid with their tale between their legs. Perhaps if somebody did some more work with them they'd get better.

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

You guys will probably shoot me full of holes on this stance...but...

That whole "once legal, always legal" is total crap from a parity standpoint. If you can't buy the engine that's running next to you on the starting line, then that engine should be deamed illegal. That will never happen however, because of the financial aspect of that. We understand we can't all buy new motors because a MFG decides to walk away. So we are set up for our destiny right from the start... and it's not going to change, because we can't afford that much change.

RB
future stunt kite WC

garys

So you're saying any engine that is not the latest currently available configuration should be illegal? So how many configurations have Nelson and Jett gone through that would be illegal now? How many people have the latest engines from either?

daven

My Feedback: (1)

yep, if you don't have a buttered crank, your not legal. You know I am just kidding.

Obviously it is not a good situation we find ourselves in, but what really are our options?? I have not seen a solution to this problem yet, although everyone wants to argue it.

I've said this before, if you don't like the current rules, put in a proposal to change them. All the biching in the world on RCU or the NMPRA site is going to change anything.

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

Yup.. that's what I was saying Gary. If my current motor, is not as current as the guy next to me.. and I can't buy whatever he has, to update my motor. He shouldn't be running it. What a pickle that would be if that were a rule.

Dave.. way too late for a rules proposal to help guard our future. What I'm saying would never pass in a million years anyway's. And rightfully so, turning people away would rapidly increase. You'd need to lock down the mfg's and make them submit their changes for approval. Same way as getting an airplane approved. letting the engine mfg change components at will, is certainly issue. It cost the competitors money, and it hampers parity big time because some people can't afford the changes.

RB

[email protected]

an interesting debate- but very much tongue in cheek, has anyone asked Dubb when he intends retiring...........THnz

garys

Randy, it sounds good, but it screws a manufacturer that doesn't get it right the first time. If this were the case, would Dub still be making engines?

If we want parity, lets just let people run whatever they want as far as engines, and then go around with a tach, restrictor plates, and a jug of nitro in the morning. If your engine's too fast, you get a plate, if it's too slow, you get nitro

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

I want the nitro!

better yet.. I like the idea of "serialized and sealed" engines. Now that would be "box stock". [X(]

garys

Sorry RB, I don't care how slow your crap is, you get a restrictor plate...

"serialized and sealed"....interesting concept. No shim adjustments, nothing. Lets even get rid of the needle valves!

luv to race

My Feedback: (1)

My crap is pretty slow. The last time out, I got beat by Johnnie “down line” Snaps. By lap 8 I thought the event change to stunt…AND still lost.

As long as I can keep running my SS motor with a LS muffler I’m good. That’s legal right??

I have no clue what that needle valve thing does anyway, so I just cut it down… if you want to get rid of them, I’m good with that.

wrstew

My Feedback: (30)

If I remember the statement correctly, NASCAR brought a brand new box truck to the last race, and "at random" requisitioned 14 engines from the competitors to take back to headquarters to intensively examine. Makes the whole Nelson vs Jett issue seem tame in comparison. If the governing body is going to these extremes, the "sealed engine" query might have a huge effect in that arena. There is a local racer behind our shop, and in the class they run in they in fact do the "sealed, you better not be modifying" rule . The cost of replacing the engine on a real regular basis is removed, extending the lifespan and therefore lowering the per use cost. When the latest Nelsons wear, or attrition gets them, will 428 and Q40 be more like 424? Instead of the TT40 might we see that the Dub 40 as the "legal" powerplant? OR.... in giant scale the Chinese have cloned large US gas engines, the quality is there, and that has changed the price of going big considerably. Can you say WongFly Engines LTD?

sahartman21

I keep thinking that we've beat this dead horse to death.

I'm going to give Jett my business since the product is good and his engines are available.

In the meantime lets continue to support the products that are available.

If someone wants to run their Nelson this shouldn't be an issue since other products are competitive.

BUDMAN27

Just sounds so unfair (no new blood) to alow an engine that someone new can,t get.

BUDMAN27

Don,t know for sure but I would bet Dubb will drop dead someday during a race with a big smile on his face (and he probaly will win the race)

daven

My Feedback: (1)

Its a little early to be drinking budman