ceecrb1

ok so i´m wondering about my great planes extra 300sp and wondering about landing it.
I keep overshooting the runway...
I´m very sure that the reason is excessive speed.. but i´m having problems getting it to slow down. to the point that I have to come in very low and slow and just float down the runway till it looses that final lift it has..

I´m running it on an os 55ax with a 12x6 prop (which according to most flyers with this plane, in this forum, are using this), with the c/G exactly in the centre of the manuals starting point.

would a larger prop with less thrust help me slow down more? can I try something with C/G to help this.
I´m just not getting that classic "glide slope" into a runway. its more float down the rw... In my old trainer and low wing trainer I was able to nail the head of the runway every time.. this one I just cant get it....

so where should I be looking?

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

Unless your engine is idling way too high, you should actually be okay with your present setup. However, try a 5 pitch prop and you should get some braking. Try it up high, at first, to get used to it.

Good luck,
Dave Olson

Villa

Hi ceecrb1
A little up elevator on final brings most planes down. Practice it high in case of a snap roll. Some planes can take a lot of up elevator during the final. It is called flare. Not sure of that spelling. It may be flair.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

You might want to try a 13x5 if you are happy with the 12x6 This will increase blade swept area and drag at low power making the approach easier and more controllable and do it without any other major performance changes.

John

da Rock

And of course, if your idle is too high, even the 5 pitch will keep on truckin'

ceecrb1

I currently have the idle kicking around just over 2000rpm, where 2000 is the recommended in the manual..

will get a selection of props from the LHS and try some things over the weekend..

i´m guessing it will be prop as last weekend I maidened a 3d 40 size plane with a 12x6 then swapped out to a 12.25x3.75 and the difference was massive...

Charlie P.

Make your final turn farther downwind and lower. 

ceecrb1

i´m making it so far away i can hardly orientate the plane :S

Charlie P.

Stall the wing a bit. 

Nose-high knife edge side-slip down the far downeind on the runway, slow, to shed altitude.  Quarter roll to level at 8 feet altitude, still slightly nose high 50 ft downwind and then set it in gently right at you feet.

maukaonyx

You can gradually add tail weight to move the CG back. Just do it in small increments so you notice when it starts getting too touchy in pitch. More rearward CG should help you land slower. It'll also result in less down needed to fly level inverted. Mine is slowing better on landing with this method. Jon

Lnewqban

ceecrb1,

As Villa has explained, you need to use some AOA as your aerodynamic brake.

This plane is less draggy that your previous ones, and drag is the only force that can slow an airplane.
But there are two types of drag forces:
One is due to friction and increases with square of the speed.
The second one is due to lift and increases with the inverse of the square of the speed.

Since you don't have the first type for landing (slow speeds), the second type is your only tool.

How to use that tool? Make your wings produce more lift by increasing the AOA while reducing speed.
In other words, point the nose of the plane slightly up and reduce power while the plane sets into a glide slope down to the beginning of the landing strip.

The propeller is not your problem; any 6" pitch rotating at an iddle of 3000 rpm will want to pull the plane at a speed of less than 17 mph (27 km/h).
With a wing loading of 21~25 oz/sqin, the wings of your model will stall around 25 mph (40 km/h).
Below that stall speed you would jump to 3-D flying.
Don't change the propeller.

Practice stalling the wings high enough.
Get familiar with the max AOA and minimum speed that are safe for a regular landing.
Below the critical AOA, your elevator is your brake.

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

+1 for moving CG back.

Tall Paul

.
Video please.
Pietenpol turning base to final...

jetmech05

Look at the basics as with anything there is a trade off...on landings it's a trade loosing altitude will give you airspeed.....
On the downwind leg start decreasing your altitude with very little power or at idle.....on your base leg level out....this will help you loose the airspeed you just picked up...
Out of the final turn you should be lined up with the runway and nose down......very little power or at idle depending on alot of variables.....
Ok now...altitude is controlled by your throttle, and your airspeed is controlled, by your elevator...yes you read that correctly.....if you are flying your aircraft with down elevator then you will be fast.....
Also if your aircraft is nose heavy it won't want to slow and be late in the flair
Is there anyone at your field that can show you what everyone is saying?
Good luck to ya

ceecrb1

whats getting me is all htis is exactly what I did with the low wing trainer and high wing trainer...
I wonder if its just a case of not having got myself used to this type of plane yet..
nobody to help in my club, its a heli based club...

i´m just going to take all the advide and look into the planes stall speeds etc and practice landing an "imaginery runway" a few meters above the real one.. see what happens...

maybe it is me rather than the plane.

jetmech05

Have you ever stalled your plane at altitude to see how she looks and feels at stall speed? you should...perhaps you are under estimating the stall speed and are too fast in the approach...
There is only one way to see if your CG is correct and that is in flight.....with the airplane all trimmed up.....pull up into a 45 deg climb, roll inverted an let go of the sticks....if the airplane climbs you're tail heavy...if she descends your nose heavy

ceecrb1

yeah been doing stall turns, entering spins via stall etc.

will do some dedicated flights to look into all this at the weeked, 4 day weekend here in spain this weekend......... lots of time to look into it

cfircav8r

My Feedback: (1)

Stall turns and spins dont really show you what it looks like when you slow to a stall for landing. You need to throttle to idle and ease the nose up to maintain altitude until it stalls. this will show you how it stalls in the flare and what it feels like when you are getting close. Lnewqban gave a great explanation of the proper technique. As stated previously this A/C is faster and less draggy then the trainer and sport planes you are used to so you need to start slowing down sooner, and if you drop the nose it will speed up quicker and cause it to float farther. The hardest thing for most pilots to grasp on approach is if you are coming in high don't drop the nose as this will cause you to land farther down the runway. Instead do some s-turns or if you still have a little excess speed slow it down more and you will get a steeper approach.

Charlie P.

No video, but . . .

Rotating out of knife edge, to flare, to landed.

ceecrb1

well I tried.

End result, after many practices. I staled at the head of the runway.
now have a ripped out undercarriage and 2 wings peirced by the wheel covers.

Excelent.

would rather be overshooting.

jetmech05

I wonder did you ever stall the airplane at altitude first to see what it looked and felt like?

ceecrb1

yeah I did.. many times.. during the duration of an entire flight...

I just missjudged it a tiny amount

I actually "landed" fine.. it just laneded a few cm before the head of the runway.. so when it hit the start of the tarmac, the undercarriage was ripped out from under it... rather than being from a "heavy landing"

da Rock

So the damage wasn't the fault of the approach nor any part of the "flying". Just the fact there was a bump that caught the gear.

ceecrb1

kindof, I wasnt "in tune" enough to recognise it was at the limit of "stall"

Basically I came in far higher than normally (usually i´m almost at ground level for about 100mtrs). I managed to slow it RIGHT down and it started to drop in a nice glide slope...
Just at say 2mtrs hight and about 4mtrs away from the head of the runway, it started to stall and suddenly dropped.. I added a few clicks of gas, but it was too little too late.. by the time I could hear the motor speeding up, it was too late and the plane touched down... just before the head of the runway.

Like I said.. the fault was down to more experience (rather than knowledge).. needing to recognise the warning signs before the stall rather than react after.
Really, if I could repeat the experience, another time i´d only change that I should´ve practiced this trying to land further down the runway rather than right at the head.. as this was always an option (now I think about it)...

cfircav8r

My Feedback: (1)

At least now you see how setting up the approach can make all the difference in the world. Now you just need to practice this new technique.