CGCINC

My Feedback: (1)

I just recieved my CAP 232 from Texasrcplanes.

I'm wondering if there are any places to beef up before I put it all together.
Also, in the picture above the wing you can see what are I'm guessing the hinges.... Are these ok to use or do I need to buy something better?
Do they make a tool for cutting a slot to fit the hinges?
This will be my first time installing the hinges.....

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Those are the CA hinges, GP makes a great hinge slot cutting tool and guide. Most ARFs have pre cut slots. You want to beef up the landing gear block, on any ARF this is a must do thing then you want to fuel proof the fire wall all the way back beyond the tank area. Most ARFs today have done this to some degree but it's best to do it again. Those are the two things I do without thinking about anything else. Then I go through the plane and look for weak spots. If I see any then I beef it up. I think Ken or Mike have instructions for hinging in the getting airborne thread. I think that is in the beginners forum. Been a while but it's a read worth looking at.

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

I've really learned the hard way that too much glue is really bad for the CA hinges. Some instructions go as far as to say "add CA until the hinge refuses to accept any more glue" and following these instructions has caused hinges to break. It really takes only 2 drops per side.

Charlie P.

I respectfully disagree.  If you have taken the time to drill a central hole it will take six or more drops to fully saturate each side of a 3/4" to 1" square hinge.  The CA is not only adhering the hinge but seeping into and strengthening the surrounding wood.  On smaller hinges I still use 4 drops per side, but on the largest of CA hinges (1-1/2" x 1") I have used 12 drops per side.As long as the CA is being absorbed you're not "overdropped" yet.

Be sure to deflect the hinge to the maximum angle when applying the CA and it will reduce the risk of cracking a hinge later on in service.  Flip and repeat and then move the surface while it sets. 

CGCINC

My Feedback: (1)

Ok.. Thanks guys.

I just got back from my local hobby store. Bought some GP pinned hinges and a Dubro hing cutting tool.
I don't like the looks of these CA hinges, they are fine I'm sure but these GP pinned hinges look like they'll hold up better.
It has some decent internal bracing around the gear mount, doe's it need more? What do you suggest?
ALSO, I just don't see a lot of "extra" glue on any of the joints, Guess it can't hurt to add some more!?!?

jaka

Hi!
Hope this isn't your first R/C plane...[]

CGCINC

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It's not. But I don't plan on flying it for awhile But I am getting pretty good with this plane in the Simulator!!

scooterinvegas

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Did you fly the 40LA yet?

Put grease on the pinned part of the hinge to keep the glue from getting in to the hinge.

CGCINC

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CGCINC

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Yeah... Escapade with a 40LA. It's a pooch so I bought a Magnum XLS 46 to go in it.

CGCINC

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Just a quick "Ahaa!"

Having the right tools makes all the difference.
These new pinned hinges and the Dubro hing tool made something I thought looked hard into a breeze!!

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

What type of glue did you use to glue in the DuBros? Charlie mentioned drilling the central hole in the slot, this is a key trick for installing any of the flat type of hinge so you can get the glue to flow all through the slot. From what i can see that's a nice looking CAP. Some of the ARFs are starting to add some beef to the LG blocks but I still add more if i can. I use angle stock or make up my own from hardwood then use epoxy to glue it in. Jaka was just asking because the CAP is a high performance stunt plane and has a few surprises for newer pilots. I have one in 80 inches and it is an older kit build. It's big surprise is how it likes to snap on landing if you try to land too slow. The newer CAPs I have flown have changed the design a little and corrected this little problem. We used to call the CAP the SNAP for good reason. I have flown several of them in the last couple of years and this trate seems to have been cured.

CGCINC

My Feedback: (1)

I did drill the center hole.... I didn't at first but the hinge was so tight when I test fit it,there was nowhere for glue. I used a small dot of Gorilla in the hole and then a few drops of thin CA once they were installed. The gorilla swelled out of the hole just a bit and I trimmed the excess.

When I fly the CAP in my Sim, if I go to slow on landing, it will pitch to one side and usually crash. I've learned that you need to kee the speed up a bit untill it touches down And it's best to get a straight shot at the runway instead of swooping in from the side like Bo Duke.

WCB

Be careful what you "beef up." Aside from adding unnecessary weight sometimes you end up with unnecessary strength. Let's use a landing gear block as an example. If you have a hard landing or hit the gear hard enough to break something...something IS going to break. You want the break to be in a place that is easy to repair....such as the landing gear block. Now if you "beef up" that area then it will either rip a big chunk out of the bottom of the fuselage or it will not break and transfer the impact to the next weakest point which might be an area that is hard to repair.
If there is a design flaw and the gear block is weak then fix it. If not and you're breaking things then work on your flying...not the airplane. Assemble the plane to fly.. not to survive a crash. Assemble it to crash and you'll probably get your wish.

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Thanks for the tip. I've now used all 3 of the major types of hinges - CA, robart, and plastic/hinged. I like the plastic hinged ones the best, especially with the removable pins.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Joe, have you used hinge pins yet?

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Yes. I like them too. They are on my contest plane. I like the flat plastic hinges the best though. Go in pretty easy, everything lines up nice, nice small gab between the wing and surface, and very little resistance.

It's all personal preference; they all work, unless someone like me puts too much glue on the CA hinges and they break off.[&:]

SeamusG

On Dubro pinned hinges - I've noticed that there is some wiggle room around the pin resulting in some (a very small "some") movement when I test the hinges during pre-flight (my 4Star60 kit). It was enough to motivate me to drill 1/8" holes through the stab / elevator hinge sections and insert a piece of 1/8" dowel (didn't have round tooth picks - on the grocery list) fearing that the nylon wasn't effectively glued in with epoxy . Do GP pinned hinges have a bit of slop too?

CGCINC

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Not that I can tell. When I hold the hinge in my hands and wiggle each side I don't get any movement.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I asked Joe about his use of hinge pins because I know Joe is a user of ARFs and I shy away from pins in ARFs and use the flat Dubros on them. I build my planes and mix hinges qute often depending on the width of the edges. When I build I figure ahead of time what hinges I will use and where then add more wood in that area if I feel it is required. It's just to give me more gluing surface to hold the hinges better. I can do this with pins or flat hinges depending on the plane and design. I was just wondering if he had good luck with the pins on his ARFs because you can't add the extra wood and sometimes they are pretty thin at the TE and LE so there isn't a lot of glued area.
I had good luck with CA hinges but like the other types better. As Joe mentioned there can be a glue problem with them but if installed correctly they work great. I did learn early on not to try to reglue CA hinges. Once glued, more CA tends to make them brittle and the glue doesn't seem to hold them very well because it doesn't absorb. I'm not 100% sure that's the reason but I have only broken them after I used more glue on them.
CGC, the slot machine has two thicknesses of blades you can use. They come with the thin blades for CA hinges but you can buy the thicker ones for just a couple of bucks. I also have an old Xacto knife, the big one, that I keep two of there saw blades in and saw out the slots with that the machine made. The two blades are a good fit for the hinges. Just something I do, not something you must do but it makes a good fit.

CGCINC

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As I was cutting the hinge slots, I could see how it might be better to use the CA hinges on smaller kits as thin as the wood is at the LE/TE.
Also learned to pay attention to the internal braces location so your not cutting into that with the hing cutter. Just more lessons to put in my brain and forget!!

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

On many planes you can down along the spar and look at the TE where the hinges are glued. I'm often amazed at how little 'meat' we are actually gluing our hinges to.

I tried hinge pins because they were suggested to me by some people I have tons of respect for - some local pilots and some pattern guys at contests. These guys are using them in high stress applications and on pretty expensive equipment, and have been doing so for years. That's the only reason I tried them, but the results have been pretty good. I think they take more work though, depending on the plane, because you have to flatten out or hollow out the area to get them to sink all the way in and keep a tight hinge gap. Maybe not the case on smaller planes or with softer wood, but my experiences have proved the thin plastic hinges to be easier. Removable pins are awesome! If a hinge does break, you can remove the surface and cut a new slot, or you can remove the surface for other repairs or covering work. Nice finish, very little resistance. I use epoxy.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

You are right about having to cut the slot for the pins but being an old dental lab tec i still have a hand piece and just drill the holes then hit them with a small tapered burr so they are flush. Sometimes i cut a small square at teh hinge hole. Because I can bno longer get Pacer hinge glue I started using the new gorilla glue for both flat and pins. I have a very tapered glue bottle tip that fits into either the slot center hole or the pin hole. I use oil on the hinge pin and wipe a thin film of oil on the covering on the LE and TE. The glue squish out just wipes off.
I found a shop that was advertising Pacer but I think it was a rip off mail order hobby shop. It has a really bad rep and I think I got had. One of the many reasons I order very little on line.
CGC, if you are cutting a hinge slot and hit a rib the machine ususlly cuts a nice clean slot in the rib and the glue repairs it. Things like that happen. I have had the Dubros pull loose when using CA. That's when I got into the habit of pinning them from the bottom. I haven't had any pull loose using Gorilla glue but that may just be dumb luck??

CGCINC

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Well, that's good to know because I hit one on each Elevator.
As far as cutting a slot for the hinge, I used the handle of the hinge slottool and just pressed along the hinge slot and itmade a nice indention.
I think (at least it's my theory) thatthe Gorilla glue is a good choice for the hinges because of the "swell" you get.... Seems it will put pressure against the wood and hinge to help hold it in. ???? Just my thought....

stick

My Feedback: (14)

Just a tip for CA hinges. Fold the hinge in half along the bend line of the hinge and take a crayon or grease pencil and run it down the edge of the crease. Then fold it over the other way so you can do the same to both sides of the crease. The wax from the crayon or pencil will keep the CA from penatraring the bend line of the hinge. This will keep the CA hinges from wanting to break at the bend point.