bob36

My Feedback: (3)

When I got in to this hobby there were no arfs, so i would still be in the hobby if all arfs disapeared today.I firmly beleive that if you have not built at least three kits and flown them you are not an rc modeler but an rc flyer.



Bob36

sonsight

My Feedback: (1)

Don't know about you guy's, but I derive great satisfaction when building, especially at night when its quiet in the house. Then to go see what I just built fly is just as important.

Avaiojet

Jess,

I think you said this rather correctly. There really is a difference, especially in attitude.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

I can still buy used ... most of mine are purchaced used at swap meets or off  RCU. Building for me is not fun. If I could machine it on a bridgeport and screw it together that would be different. Glue and me just don't get along. It tends to stick me to everything.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

378

My Feedback: (4)

[/quote]
It's self-centered egotistical crap like this that drives a lot of newbies out of the hobby. Some of us, for whatever reason, don't have a scratch-built plane. It may be a lack of time, it may be a lack of skill, it may simply be because they don't want to build. Doesn't matter. Deal with it.


For me it's a lack of skill. I'd rather learn to fly on something I know is going to hold together and that I can just order a new wing/fuse/tail feathers for if I stuff it. I'll have the new part ordered and on the plane within a week, which lets me practice my flying AND learn how to build via repairing the broken parts in the time between flights, and as an added bonus I don't risk crashing something I spent months working on because I lack the skills to fly it. I will eventually get into building, hell I may even build one of my own design, but right now, the ARF hanging on my wall is my gateway into this great hobby, and any kit snobs that want to tell me otherwise will just have to stuff their comments where the sun don't shine.



If I had a penny for every time I heard someone mutter this rant I'd be able to buy all the ARF makers and move production back to the US.


Not all youth are spoiled by instant gratification, and I've seen my fair share of old folks who are. Yes, you are. If you weren't, you wouldn't have said they weren't a hobby.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Next time I see someone with a full sponsorship buy a plane will be the first time. Today most planes used in competition are 40%+ and I only know of one person still building his own in that size. My own building is 80 inches and under. Scale builders are another story, you can go to any IMAA event and see some of the best scratch built giants in the world. A lot of guys from Scale Masters. IMAC used to be smaller planes and most were kit or scratch built. As more and more giant scale ARFs were built the events went to giant planes and building wasn't required. Today even Pattern has shifted to ARFs for a number of reasons. Not a lot of builders can lay up a glass fuse and cut foam cores. Even if they could it's not cost effective. Don't mistake the top pilots with the normal sport pilots, they are in a different class all by themselves and what they fly is nothing like most sport pilots will be using. That's an apples and oranges thing. When was the last time you bought a 40% AeroWorks Extra or YAK?? Building isn't for everyone, it is a skill and must be learned. Learning was part of the hobby and you started small then as you advanced in your skills your planes would become more advanced. How many pilots do you see show up at the field with there new super duper ARF stunt plane and stuff it the same day because the plane was more advanced then the pilot, a lot! Builders have gone through the learning curve if they started small and advanced as they went along. Skills are learned, you have to try it a few times and not jump right into a giant scale war bird. It isn't for everyone, I get building burn out all the time and start looking at some of the ARFs. I have come close to buying one a couple times but by the time I have the money I have gotten past my building funk.

oldvet70

My Feedback: (10)

I've built since I was a 6 year old kid. It was one of those things my Dad and I did. So naturally I voted I would continue to build.

The current poll results are not believable IMHO. The first thing an ARF assembler does when he crashes is to throw evervthing In the trsh and announce it must have been badaly assembled by Chinse SLAVELABOR. The sceond most common thingI hear is cheap or lack of glue. The ones who decide to rebiild spend hours looking for the cheapest eaisest way to fix the plane or troll for someone to fix it for them.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Most of the crashes I see are due to radio problems and I would trash the plane/pieces too. The crashes would have all ended up looking about the same no mater if it was an ARF or kit. My last two crashes were both kit built Kaos planes, an 80 inch and a 60 size. Both my bad, nothing could have survived what I did. My Dirty Birdy was a mid air with an ARF, both planes were nothing but rubble. The ARF didn't look any worse then my kit built. My builds will hold up to rough landings and low to the ground miss haps better then an ARF but nothing I build will hold up to a crash. When I dump one I'm not fooling around, well, maybe, that's what probably caused the crash to begin with.

jessiej

378, how do you define "hobby" as opposed to "activity"?

I am genuine interested in how people view the subject as I participate in many activities that I don't view as hobbies.

jess

378

My Feedback: (4)

Anything done with the sole purpose of amusing onesself. My video games are a hobby, as is building and maintaining the computer I play them on. My RCs are a hobby, both ground and air. Working on my truck is a hobby...or at least it would be if I could afford go-fast parts. Hell even driving is a hobby at times, when I owned a nimble car I would clip apexes and have a blast flying through my deserted twisty country roads, while I've been known to do some mudding with my pickup and I take shortcuts through riverbeds just because I enjoy the challenge of taking a 2WD places people with 4WDs won't even go.

Avaiojet

HoundDoge,

Interesting, and belivable.

In fact, this is a well made point no one has touched on yet. The adheasive, and plenty of different ones FTM (for that matter), does take some getting used to.

Building oders? Some guys live and work out of apartments or homes without garages.

Another reason ARF's could be popular.

Look. My favorite model, the Grumman F1F or the G-22.

What say we all pretend we have interest in it, so we can talk a company into producing a short run of 50 ARF models.

I'll buy two, so that leaves only 48 to sell. Could that be difficult?

Anyone really interested just PM me. I'll keep a list and keep all informed. Here's the airplane.

pilotchute

My Feedback: (29)

When I look at a quality plane that has been built from a kit, especially a warbird, I am envious, amazed at the ability of the builder and glad to see there are those capable of creating such a fine model. Time and ability aside for me, placing a model in harms way (flying) and having a model that is too costly for me to justify means I will not fly it.

While ARF's have come a long way, the difference between them a a built-up model is apparent. Those that continue to build are not threatened by the ARF models because the attention to detail and the unique attributes opf the builder's model is obvious.

For my part there just is not enough time to build, I do not have the ability, nor the willingness to spend a good deal of time and money in something that could easily become a pile of rubble. So, no ARF's and I am history.

Having said this, I have no patience or tolerance for those that would criticize my approach to this hobby.

jessiej

Anything done with the sole purpose of amusing onesself. My video games are a hobby, as is building and maintaining the computer I play them on. My RCs are a hobby, both ground and air. Working on my truck is a hobby...or at least it would be if I could afford go-fast parts. Hell even driving is a hobby at times, when I owned a nimble car I would clip apexes and have a blast flying through my deserted twisty country roads, while I've been known to do some mudding with my pickup and I take shortcuts through riverbeds just because I enjoy the challenge of taking a 2WD places people with 4WDs won't even go.
[/quote]


Interesting viewpoint. I have done several forms of competitive target shooting for many years and view it as an "activity. Handloading and development of precision loads I view as a hobby.

Likewise I view restoration of vintage cars and motorcycles as a hobby while driving/riding them is an activity.

I once had a friend who was an avid chess player. He viewed playing chess as a "passtime", but said the study of the history of the game was his hobby.

I suppose there could be similar varying views as to what is an activity as opposed to a sport.

jess

silvermansteve

My Feedback: (2)

like another poster, i don't think the numbers here represent the real world. the builders here are proud to post because they are proud of their skills. but the many, many arf flyers are not as proud to post, because to say we would leave the hobby if we did not have cheap,alreadybuilt planes, makes us look perhaps lazy or unskilled.

378

My Feedback: (4)

I'd say everything you listed was a hobby. You do them because you enjoy doing them, not because they give you any sort of measurable gains. ESPECIALLY restoring old cars, those things are moneypits. 30K in, 15K out if you're lucky.


For me I'd be looking at 20-25K in, 5K out at the most, as it's not like mid 80's Ford trucks were either rare or highly valued as collector's pieces. Still see several of them on the road every time I go out, not counting my own.

lopflyers

My Feedback: (12)

I dont build or assemble arfs. I buy them already build.
 I dont have the ability or desire to build.
 Hey I didnt build the truck that I drive to work.
I buy from people that does that, build to sell. I bought an Easy Sport build from a kit and several arfs. When they crash they are all the same.... rubble.
I admire those that build from scratch, they have the ability, time and courage that I dont.
I saw this grown man crying after he crashed on maiden a plane that took 1 year to build. I WILL NOT DO THAT
My hat is off for those who do

ovationdave

My Feedback: (16)

I love building, and I have a few ARF's in my hangar too, but if anyone says that if ARF's go away they will leave the hobby......well, I think either they haven REALLY thought about the question (I bet most would not get out), or they really don't enjoy the hobby that much. I will never get out; even if I have to scratch building everything I fly.

Dave

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Or you can look around in the plans section and locate the plane you would want and just build it yourself. How about a Boeing F4B-2 in Army Colors or build one and do the navy colors. John Tanzer design, 68 inch span. Cost, next to nothing. You build your own nose ring, bend your own wire, other then some minor store bought parts and covering there isn't much involved in the build, it's quick and easy. Both the planes you are showing are sold as plans and you can even buy the LG for them.

jessiej

Based on that view I have many more hobbies than I thought! Reading, photography, fishing (I have viewed fly tying as something of a hobby) watching football, history, _the list is endless! You would not believe the number of pursuits I have engaged in for no measurable gain. Haven't thought of them as hobbies so much as just $#*^ I do for fun.

I have noticed however that on those rare occasions I have done the fun stuff for pay the enjoyment seems to fall off a bit.

BTW, I like the older trucks quite a lot. I have a 67 Ford anc would like one from the mid-50s. Other than that I like the old Britt bikes and sports cars.

378

My Feedback: (4)

Heh, yeah. Lots of fun things.

Heh, nice. My aunt's got a '71. I've got an '85 with a 300 and OD four speed. Mine's got 275K on it, my aunt's well over 300K. I'm still all original, she just had a new engine put in it about a thousand miles ago. Wonderful trucks, both of them.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

67 Ford F-250, I just sold last year, I did rebuild the whole truck but never thought of it as a hobby. My 50 Chev. with the Vett drive train was a hobby. Sand dragsters were my main hobby for years but I was more into Duck and Quail hunting, 6 days a week for 21 years. The 67 went to a lot of places that required a shot gun. Trap and Skeet in the off season. More like a way of life. Fishing was a side line because my wife liked it so much. Living in the country just made everything easy. I got back into modeling as my body started to fail me, it was either my body or the marsh mud got thicker and the hills got taller? No place here where I can work on a car any longer or I would get another VW.

tryingagain

I actually really appreciate all the ARF flyers out there. Although I have not owned one yet I can see the day where I just might. If it were not for the proliferation of ARFs out there we would all still be paying 1000.00 dollars for a basic 6 channel radio. The increased volume in equipment sales has done us all good.

As to the quote, believe me I understand the butterflies when a kit you spent time on breaks free of Mother Earth for the first time. On the flip side when it comes off and flies right it is a terrific feeling![sm=teeth_smile.gif]

As to the hobby vs activity question. Who cares! That is like, " is curling a sport or a recreation?" ( or bowling or golf ) Offense will be taken on both sides and the hobby or activity isn't changed at all by the argument.

I will point out that ARFs are sold in Hobby Shops. (curling brooms and bowling balls are sold in sporting goods stores) I will ask again, who cares? What ever you call it, enjoy it.

Oh... by the way (and to move back to on topic) yes I would still be in the hobby!(or activity)[sm=wink_smile.gif]

Cheers

Gord

kurt2022

My Feedback: (18)

I do not have the time, desire or patience to build an airplane from scratch! If I was retired or working a public sector job, with multiple days off, I might consider it! I work in the private sector and do not want or need the additional headache of building. I am proud of our builders in our club, but I like larger aerobatic planes and you rarely see a plane over 50cc (80in) or larger than quarter scale that is not an arf! I love the mechanical end of building that being the engine, radio and plumbing and so on. I do not dis-respect the builders in the hobby and EXPECT the same in return! If you get off on glueing sticks together more power to you, but I don't!!! By the way, I think you assemble a kit which isn't considered the same as scratch building!!!

Ron Stahl

My Feedback: (12)

What's an arf? Just kidding of course. I love to build and have 52 kits lined up on the shelves for my retirement days.