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O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

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Old 07-16-2012, 04:55 AM
  #26
newflier1
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

OK - thanks for all the info. If I don't get satisfactory results after lowering the tank, I may have to go this route - trying to avoid having to do this though.
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Old 07-16-2012, 04:59 AM
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

OK good luck!

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Old 07-16-2012, 05:24 AM
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

Quote:
Another procedure and I have used this many times with some types of racers but do not reccomend this either as you will soon get sick of it.  That involves installing hemostats on the tank/carb line immediately after fueling and removing the hemostat just before starting  
Surprised no one has mentioned fuel clips. Push on after landing/shut-off, push off when starting. Easy, low-cost answer. Heli and warbird  guys have been using them forever.
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:19 AM
  #29
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

Step One: Remove the shelf.

Step Two: Lower the fuel tank.

Step Three: Find someone experianced to mentor You in operating your engine.


Problem will be solved, do this before spending money or drilling holes in things?


John
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:24 AM
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano


Quote:
ORIGINAL: newflier1

I think I may have it figured out. I'm not sure why, but I changed the ''plug'' that came with the ARF's tank. It was one of those plugs that had the plastic tubes with a single barb at one end. I was playing around with the tank outside of the plane slightly lower in level to where it would be if it were in the plane. I'm using a 3 tube sysytem for my tank, fill, carb and vent. WHen I was filling the tank, I was noticing that as the tank was filling, fule was coming out of the carb line. I still don't understand why, the pick up is sitting on the bottom of the tank and the the fuel had yet to reach the top of the tank. So I figured something was screwed up. I changed to the 3 line plug all with metal tubing, put the tank in the plane, started the engine and everything ran great. To be honest with you, I really don't know what is going on which is sort of scary. I'll probably do one or two more ground runs/test before taking it up. It just makes no sense to me what could have been wrong with that original plug.
newflier1,
I have a Phoenix ARF (different model), and it came with plastic plates for squeezing the fuel tank plug to make it airtight. All other tanks I ever had used metal plates. You may not be having trouble with it now, as I did at first, but with time, the threads on the plastic plate start to strip, causing the fuel tank plug (bung) to relax and allow air leaks. I changed the plug and squeeze plates (and used brass tubing) to eliminate air leaks. Something to watch out for.
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:41 AM
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

Hi
All due respect
Glo engines do NOT LIKE being run inverted as it complicates the starting and setting of the needle valve correctly and therefore can get aggravating and frustrating, not to mention going dead stik
A Glo engine not tunned as well as it should be gets difficult to fly ,if power is marginal for any reason from less than correct power out put and tunning
GLO engines run there best and equally well upright or on its side and it is necessary to keep the basics as simple as is possible to enjoy a good flight and day out
Your plane will only fly as good as you engine runs ! PERIOD !
My opinion after having been there-done that is to remount the engine so you are not adding any variables that COMPLICATE what you are trying to accomplishhaving a good day at the field and good flight performance
An inverted glo engine adds negative variables that there is no need to deal with ever
This especially applies if you are new to flying and the hobby
Part of the learning curve as i see it
Building and Flying only glo two cycle for 26 years,So I KNOW !
If fitting the engine inside the cowl is your issue-to look pretty
Do consider cutting the cowl so the engines head stiks out (engine up or to the side ) or fly with the cowl off
It will be better to do that than damage the plane due to an engine not running right issue that in my opinion will happen some time if you keep the engine inverted
It seems you will always lean twards taking the plane to the field that is the best running and simplest to fly and enjoy for the long hall-as you put the most flights on that plane
I have rambled on here-,but hope it gives you a direction to enjoy flying your plane more easilyand makes it more fun and less of a task
Regards Tony
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:08 AM
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

Quote:
Glo engines do NOT LIKE being run inverted as it complicates the starting and setting of the needle valve correctly   
Actually, no.  The engine doesn't know it's inverted, upright, backwards, etc., but the carb (spraybar) location not being about even with the fuel tank centerline can lead to problems. I regularly 'snipe' engines at the club from guys who don't do a proper setup and blame the engine.

Last year, I bought a 70 Surpass for $50 that didn't have 2 tanks through it. I urged the guy to move the tank down, he refused and has gone all electric out of frustration. The 70 is happily running inverted in one of my Sticks.

Things only get complicated with inverted engines if the tank height is off.
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:16 AM
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

I have 4 planes with inverted engines with no trouble. One of them is a 2-stroke I've owned for 5 years with no trouble. The trick is to have the fuel tank level correct relative to the engine as mentioned here. I never had hydro-lock either with that setup, only when I intentionally flood the engine with after-run oil. When that happens, I hand-flip the engine backwards and the oil comes out of the carb, no problem.
The trick is to have an ARF that is properly designed, in my case a Sig Rascal 40, awesome plane. Makes any crappy engine look good.[8D]
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:41 AM
  #34
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

Yup, roger that eddieC an hsukaria, it's kinda mine over matter. Know your engine and what's required and it's a breeze. Just bought a 55ax last week for a Alpha 40 trainer (kinda over powered) for my grand son, and wish It was practical to invert that project......hehe
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:52 AM
  #35
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

I also have an OS 55AX, great engine. I have it mounted sideways though.
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:19 AM
  #36
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

EddieC:

I've only be flying RC for 3 years and this is my first 2-stroke inverted engine/ARF. I have three other planes (2 warbirds and a Sundowner) that have inverted mounts or sideways (Sundownwer) and I have Saito Engines in all of them and everyone flies great no problems at all. I guess I'm learning the ropes now for 2-stgrokes. I'll lower that tank and I think my problems go away.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:32 AM
  #37
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

Trick time. If you Mount your engine at an angle so it isn't a complete invert you will have less problems. I said less, flooding can happen to pretty much any set up if the tank is too high.
ARF manufactures don't seem to keep a lot of things in mind when designing these planes and if there is a problem they don't often change the design. Some planes don't lend themselves well to the set up either. I use YS and some pumped OS engines so tank location or flooding is never a problem. I try to mount my tanks over the CG but that's just how I like it, pumped engines don't care where you put the tank.
Funny thing, Saito has not come out with a pumper?? Two stroke engines can use an after market pump, the pressure type that require a hole drilled and taped in the back of the engine is the better type and it works very well.
Just an FYI.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:36 AM
  #38
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

I had the same problem w a 4 strke. The hemostat thing clamping the line that goes to the muffler works.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:02 AM
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano


Quote:
ORIGINAL: newflier1



Ihave an O.S. 55AX engine mounted inverted in a Phoenix Models Tucano. The carb on the engine is about at the center line of the tank. I am getting a siphoning effect when Itry to start the engine and fuel just drips out of the carb and the engine becomes hydro-locked. Someone told me to try and make a 'fuel trap' by loopiong some fuel tubing and to make the loop go to the top of the cowl. I tried that and the engine starts, but as soon as it stops, the siphoning effect starts and the enginehydro-locks. Does anyone have a soluiton for this problme? Is the last resort a Perry Pump?

Ihad a similar airplaneand engine combo. The engine was also inverted and it also flooded when the tank was full.
Isolved the problem by lowering the tank and getting the engine very finey tuned. In fact the tuning was the biggest contributor to resolving the flooding.
I had a similar issue with a 91FX. That remains one very problematic engine to run inverted.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:06 PM
  #40
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano


Quote:
ORIGINAL: newflier1


I guess I'm learning the ropes now for 2-stgrokes. I'll lower that tank and I think my problems go away.

Bingo
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:18 PM
  #41
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

Lopflyers - I hate to ask a really stupid question - but if you use a hemostat and clamp the line to the muffler, and you have a cowl on the plane, how do you know when your fuel tank is filled? I'm assuming one line is going to the carb from the tank and you have a fill line (3 line system, fill, vent, carb). Thanks.
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:07 PM
  #42
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

I had my Hangar9 P-51 do the same thing with a OS .91FX. The fuel would just run on the table. It would drip while running on the table. I put a perry pump on it and it solved some of the problem. I ended up drilling a hole above the fuel tank and running the fuel line out from there and had much better results. I was ready to give up when one of the club members clued me in.
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Old 07-16-2012, 04:30 PM
  #43
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

Quote:
ORIGINAL: newflier1

Lopflyers - I hate to ask a really stupid question - but if you use a hemostat and clamp the line to the muffler, and you have a cowl on the plane, how do you know when your fuel tank is filled? I'm assuming one line is going to the carb from the tank and you have a fill line (3 line system, fill, vent, carb). Thanks.

When you have a fuel tank which is to high and you try to use a hemostat to prevent syphoning and flooding of the engine you do not put the hemostat on the muffler pressure line you put it on the clund to carburator line.

Agine this method is going to be constant trouble for you and you need to lower that tank.

Now concerning tank you highly suggest you forget that third line business and go to a simply two line system and it is fueled like the picture below. If there is a cowl the carb line is simply looped outside in two holes and the line is split there to fuel toward the tank you cannot flood the carb in this way.

The KISS principle in fuel systems is always better.

John
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Old 07-16-2012, 04:46 PM
  #44
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

Hi John:

I didn't see that picture you were refering too. Did you forget to attach it? I've started the process to lower the tank. Plugging and glue up the origianl hole in the firewall. Tomorrow when glue has dried, iI'll take out that 'shelf' and re-drill the hole lower. This will drop the tank 7/16 inch lower. I would still like to see that pic. I've been using the 3-line system for my planes with cowls OR those easy fuelers. I've run into problems with those easy fuelers on one my warbirds - Ithink the seal dries up in them and they leak air and cause problems, so I've gone to the 3 line system and use a fuel dot instead. Ihave had little problems if any with my 3 line systmes
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Old 07-16-2012, 04:53 PM
  #45
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

Never mind - I see the attachments - sorry. Very nice. My only concern with what I see there is the worry that the "tubing" you are using to join the two pieces of tubing would come apart from constantly puling it apart to fuel the plane. I like the concep though and I like the concept that its even easier to drain the tank. With my system, if you want to drain the tank on a cowled plane, Iusually have to invert my plane and use the vent line to suck all the fuel out. YOur way, the clunk is on the bottom, the plane is upright and you just pump out the fuel - i like it.
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Old 07-16-2012, 05:02 PM
  #46
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

7/16 is big drop and most certainly will stop your syphoning problem.

I always attach pictures after the intial posting to keep from being timed out. Take another look at the pictures on post #43 and the pics I attached to this post.

I know going back to the two line system having been spoon fed for years that you have to use either a fueling valve or a three line w/dot seem seems like an anachronism buts it certainly is not. I use Two line systems on all my Glow engine regardles of the cowls it is far more reliable and can never flood the carb because you pump fuel to the tank and not the carb.

Every one who I was actually able to convince and not so locked up in their ways now would never go back to a fueler valve or three line.

Yes I even do the same on my gassers. Of course I don,t worry about my YS engines two and four stroke since they the mandatory fuel system is already two line.


John
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Old 07-16-2012, 05:19 PM
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

You may have convinced me. If any of my easy fuelers on my warbirds give me problems this summer - I'll give your way a shot. So far Ihave been lucky and have had only one "bad" easy fueler and that was found on the ground - as we could never get the engine to run right.
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Old 07-16-2012, 05:30 PM
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

Quote:
what I see there is the worry that the "tubing" you are using to join the two pieces of tubing would come apart from constantly puling it apart to fuel the plane.  
The tubing will go for years and always remain flexible. I would caution you to file the tubing smooth with a fine mill file (teeth are in one direction). I even deburr tubing I.D. with a small drill or countersink.
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:04 PM
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

Newflier

Personally I would not wait for the your fueling valves to start causing running problems and convert back to the two line system now, Why let it cause a possible loss?

I have that same Hellcat and notice the the split fueling line in the same location. In this case mine is a working airplane and has served as a paint ball target and does arrested carrier landings. The engine is an OS 1.08 two stroke.

Another hugh reason for the simple two line system with two strokes is the external fueling loop provides a very convienent place to pinch the carb line for pinch tuning. Pinch tuning two strokes is an even better way to acheve an accurate needle than using a tach. But you can't practice that unless you have that pinch loop.

In this airplane thats important for surviving all the constant low approachs and go arounds of both arrested landings and the paint ball runs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2WIVHZaSHA&lr=1

John
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:35 PM
  #50
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Default RE: O.S. 55AX Engine Floods - PM Tucano

I like the Dubro tanks with the part that juts out below the plug. If you invert the tank, you can drop the fuel line below the carb.  Xince the plug is near the top, you have some wiggle room if you cant drop the floor.

I have an 8 ounce tank in my T-34 conversion, and thought the tank would be too high, but once I got the motor mounted and everything plumbed in, it worked out perfect.  The key is to have the centerline equal to or slightly below the needle valve.
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