Airplanes400

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For the life of me, I can't remember the last time I bought or used a left-handed smoke shifter. But I'm sure I'm going to need one soon, now that it was brought up. I better start looking for one.

OliverJacob

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It's hard to discuss this without getting into the politics.
None of the symbols being used then had an evil meaning, that was the whole point of it.

Just for the record - that one guy was from Austria, not Germany, which does not make his German helpers less guilty. I don't want to get to deep into this.

The history of VW is as shaded as many others. They build great cars and providing thousands of good jobs. No evil here.

Quikturn

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Yes, Adolf Hitler did come from Austria. He was a very passionate and influential speaker. He was also very popular (at first) and was democratically elected by the people.

The Volkswagen translates into the "peoples car" that Hitler promised to each family. I believe the VW Beetle was designed by Ferdinand Porsche.

In regards to how history is told now, I was helping my daughter with a timeline in aviation project in school. Her school supplied notes said the first jet engine was designed by an English inventor. No mention of any German advances. After doing a search, I found out it was invented by an English and German inventor independently. Both inventors did not know of the other. The first turbojet airplane to ever fly was the Heinkel He 178. The first combat jet to fly was the Me 262.

HoundDog

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Those that Denigh or refuse to recognize and study history as it was and  not changed by the Liberal Nit Wits are destined to repeat such history ...

orthobird

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Well, the Swastika is a symbol derived from Zoroastrians, which is one of the oldest religions.  however, Hitler "reversed" it from the original position.  Zoroastrians still exist today, and they composed the people from the persian empire, way back before christianity or islam existed.  it is believed that the Aryan people moved from their origin into two separate area, one was the area of present Germany and the other was the area of Persia.  Hitler researched this, and he knew the people from Persia were "Aryan" descent, so he had sympathy for them.  In any event, the german nazis approached Reza Shah Pahlavi, the father of the last shah of Iran, and he was informed that he should change the name of Persia from Persia to IRAN, being, a name to signify the people from Aryan descent.  Back to Zoroastrians, they were persecuted by Alexander the Great, and he was out to kill them all, some survived in areas of Persia.  Likewise, when the Arabs invaded PERSIA and they forced upon them to convert to Islam or die, most converted, but some of the Zoroastrians did not, and they were able to avert death.  In current day Iran, Zoroastrians are a very small proportion of population, less than 5%.  Yet, they are not persecuted by the Muslims.  However, they are not allowed to marry Muslims, unless they convert.  If a muslim person marries a zoroastrian, and they are discovered, the muslim person will be sentenced to death.  Also, in Iran, and especially in the capital Tehran, there is a movement of people that are converting from Islam to Zoroastrianism, and they state that people from Iran are originally Persian and not Arabs, and they beliveve that religion was forced upon their ancestors, so now they are converting to the religion of Zoroaster.  Interestingly, the Mullahs on friday prayer, tend to remind people not to do this, and they are trying to prevent people from doing this.  So prior to 1933, the swastika was known as a symbol for the religion of the ancient persians, which was a polytheistic religion.  they had a god of fire, a god of wind, etc...  when Hitler took office in 1933, after forcing upon the German people over 4 elections in less than 12 months time, until he finally won, by scaring them, then he full speed ahead began to display the new sign of the third reich, which was the Swastika (different position or direction) from the Persian symbol.  So, the symbol is depicting Nazism.  My disclaimer:  this is in no way a political statement, and it is not intended to hurt anyone's feeling.  i am merely trying to explain some history, from what i can recall, when i took a religion class in my University over 20 years ago, that was intended to be a religion class about all religions, presented in an objective way, however, the class was taught to us by a man of Jewish descent.  whom was a very nice man, and i believe he did manage to teach to class in an objective fashion.

orthobird

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism

orthobird

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"The swastika is a sacred symbol that appears as far back as the Stone Age, or Neolithic times. The oldest record of the swastika comes from artifacts unearthed in modern-day Iran dating back 7,000 years. Swastikas also appear on archaeological items from the Bronze and Iron Ages and are closely associated with peoples of the Mesopotamian regions. The ubiquitous symbol is also found among the Indo-European Celts, Greeks, throughout Asia and Africa, and even among Native American peoples.

To the ancient Zoroastrians of Persia, the swastika represented the revolving sun, the source of live-giving fire and infinite creativity. This pre-Christian monotheistic religion is thought by some scholars to have heavily influenced the development of Judaism, which in turn influenced Christianity and Islam."

edh13

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Great. Just as I was enjoying the politic free history lesson and Ken's good grace to let it continue, my Arizona neighbor from AJ has to toss a turd in.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Just saying those that refuse to acconalage history or change it so that it is forgotten will repeat the history one way or the other. The same thing in a xmall way is eliminating the Swastika from models ... Besides who say's we're FRIENDS Maby aquintances, but Friends?

predman

My Feedback: (7)

I have a pilot me109 and it came with the swash sticker , I put them on the plane. No one has asked me about it, except my son. It was an older kit so maybe back then it didn't matter. Today everyone complains about everything.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Check out the markings on this 1/3 Scale Balsa USA Fokker D-VII   they are actually Polish Markings.       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plHe8CGMbVE

HoundDogMech 1 year ago

There are Polish markings on 4 DVIII sold to Poland after the end of WWI. Check with the Owner Matt Tereersinski at [email protected]    He'll explain the markings because he has the pictures to prove it.

jester_s1

The Nazis chose the swastika as their symbol because it had positive connotations to everyone. Think of it like a big abstract smiley face of sorts. After the war it and just about everything else that typified Hitler and the Nazi party went out of fashion as symbols of evil. That included not only the swastika, but also the raised hand salute (which some American kids used in their pledge to the flag prior to the 1930's), moustaches for a while, and even rigid discipline (hence the individualism of the '50's). Whatever it meant before it doesn't mean anything good to the vast majority of the world's population now.

As for ARF manufacturers putting it on their models, it's just bad business. As others have said, there are some customers who wouldn't buy a plane with a swastika on it even if scale fidelity called for it. So they leave it off and give the end user the option of adding it themselves. It's not about the politics of any of the companies or the meaning of the symbol itself. It's all about good business and selling as many planes as possible.

TimBle

good answer

topspin

I don't have any problem with swastikas on scale planes becuse it makes them historically accurate. I personally will not put swastikas on my Nazi warbirds only because I don't like what it stands for and I personally cant justify it.

On scale models it is fine, on anything else it is an abhoration.

Daniel-EL

My Feedback: (9)

I've had two plane decal symbols displayed in the past which provoked a few people (bystanders) into getting nasty with me, and I was only a 20 year old kid at the time. The first was a swastika on a Contender and the second was a Confederate flag on an old Intruder pattern plane. No scale argument can be made there, to be sure, but I took exception to their apparent PC problem and gave as good as I got. Since I've gotten older, however, I can see how those symbols could be painfully significant to some and I probably should have been more sensitive about it. Now I just stay away from it all.

buzzard bait

Many years ago someone painted a swastika on a local synagogue. Later, the American Nazis wanted to do a march through a nearby town. In another town a family displayed a menorah in their window and woke up the next morning with a swastika painted on their door. Some places in the country and in some other countries, these things are still happening. It's threatening. No one paints a meatball or a red star on anyone's house or place of worship.

I know most people are not going to be offended by a swastika on a model airplane. If you bring one to the field I'm not certainly not going to complain and most likely no one else will either. But to me it's very simple: the swastika has continued to be an active symbol of hatred and violence toward Jews ever since Hitler. I'm not going to have one in my house, even if it's just on a model airplane.

Jim

radfordc

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That's not exactly true, either. I have a TF P-47. The kit decals included kill markings that are supposed to be swastikas, but they're not. They are little black crosses. So, apparently it's not even acceptable to have an accurate marking that represents a dead Nazi plane!

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

That's because the Meat Ball or the Red Star or Hammer and Cycle don't represent a Religion, but to deney History on a scale model airplane is almost as nieve as to try change history or rewright history.

jetmech05

Did you know the swaskita appears on the indian symbol for the Lafeyette Escadrill? Look at the headress the indian is wearing....this is WW 1 stuff... like said above the swaskita has been used by many people before the Nazi's came into power

wallace.tharp

Interesting, when we flew our 78 pound 1/5 scale Su-25 for stinger & 50 cal. on the N. Sea we were asked to paint out the red stars. When we flew the same UAV for the army guys in Taiwan they just shot the hell out if it and said nothing! There was a "Swastika forum a few yeears back with much the same results. I googled it at the time and found out that ist is an ancient symbol from thousands fo years back. The Navajo also use a version of it. It can be flip flopped and if memory servs correct, it was thought to represent perpetual motion. Just sayin. wallace.tharp

da Rock

Actually, the laws that ban the symbol don't allow little symbols while banning big ones.

It's logical to assume that the people who make and sell things hope to sell them where they will not be breaking the law. Model kit makers and sellers are smart enough to notice that size isn't mentioned in the laws.

wallace.tharp

I taught Japanese students in 1/1 Cessna 172s and 182 RG, and several of them flew R/C with me or visited me in a LHS where I worked part time. Every time they saw a picture of a B-29 they would say, "I hate that airplane!" No problem with Mustangs, Corsair, etc. Go figer?? My dad would NEVER buy a Japanese or German car! Again, go figer???? wallace.tharp

JL1

My Feedback: (93)

The Bomb

HoundDog

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Not Just "THE BOMB" it was the Fire Bombing tha went on for month befor Auges 6th1945 This from Wickipedia

The figure of roughly 100,000 deaths, provided by Japanese and American authorities, both of whom may have had reasons of their own for minimizing the death toll, seems to me arguably low in light of population density, wind conditions, and survivors' accounts. With an average of 103,000 inhabitants per square mile (396 people per hectare) and peak levels as high as 135,000 per square mile (521 people per hectare), the highest density of any industrial city in the world, and with firefighting measures ludicrously inadequate to the task, 15.8 square miles (41km²) of Tokyo were destroyed on a night when fierce winds whipped the flames and walls of fire blocked tens of thousands fleeing for their lives. An estimated 1.5 million people lived in the burned out areas.[11

LesUyeda

"The first was a swastika on a Contender and the second was a Confederate flag on an old Intruder pattern plane."

You sound pretty much like me. Along with my avatar, I did this Red Neck truck, a number of years ago.

Les