dafbterry

Can anyone tell me how the fuel system is connected to the tank on this engine? I am using a 3 port tank and have no idea what goes where.

Thanks in advance!

maukaonyx

Sounds like you have not run glow much? Vent tube from tank goes to the muffler nipple. Fuel pick up line (has clunk in the fuel tank) goes to the carb nipple. Other line should go to tank bottom and is the fill/drain line...just let it exit from location of your choice on the cowl and put a plug or fuel dot on it. Jon

dafbterry

Never ran anything but glow. This is a pumped engine.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Third line is an open vent so the tank can breath or it would be like sucking on a straw then clamping it. The tank needs to be vented.

dafbterry

I wish I had a picture of the engine not installed. Being a pumped engine on the back side of the crank case I have two fuel fittings. Neither are labeled in or out. The tank gets pressurized through one of these ports and the carb fed through the other, but which one? The tank has the standard vent tube, with the other two tubes having clunks on them. So, does one of the fuel fittings supply pressure to the vent tube or one of the clunked tubes? And if one line has to be open what prevents fuel loss out of the tube when pressurized? I typically use a fuel line cap on that line when using muffler pressurization and never had an issue.

TFF

You have a Ssurpass III not II http://manuals.hobbico.com/osm/fs-120s-iii-manual.pdf google is your friend

dafbterry

Guess I have no idea what it is. It is a chrome valve covered FS 1.20 with a pump. I thought the FS III had a black cover.

dafbterry

Here is the engine I bought from EBAY

http://www.ebay.com/itm/O-S-FS-120-S...vip=true&rt=nc

dafbterry

Now this is my first 4 stroke and I may be way off base here. There are no markings on this engine other than what is stamped on the side. I cannot find a manual that fits the description of this engine. I have had the engine running in my Escapade, but don't feel i have the fuel line hooked up properly.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

What you have is an original Surpass pumper. I have one that I use for parts {screws} and it hasn't been made in decades for a number of reasons. I just took several photos of mine but there is a server problem and not allowing photos again. The nipple with the ball swivel goes to the carb, the top nipple should say in and the main fuel line goes into that then the bottom nipple should have a {P} and is the pressure line. The nipple on the crank is the breather line and should be opened with a line for oil to drip out. PM me your email address and I will send the photos to you directly. For adjusting the carb you can go into the glow engine forum then into the OS support and ask Bill Baxter. The one I have ran great on the bench but would sag on power in a plane? Never could get it to work correctly and I was able to find a newer engine. Parts are no longer available for that engine and the pump cannot be rebuilt. It's more of a collectors engine but when you have one that runs well they are still fine to use. As a first four stroke?? Not so much. If the letters aren't showing on the back plate of the pump I would think someone had taken it apart and not gotten it back together correctly because they are stamped on the back plate. The newer Surpass engines are much better and more operator friendly. The pumps will still go bad and there is a diaphragm in the regulator that can also go bad but other then that they are easy to tune and operate for years and years without any problems. A non pumped engine is a much better choice for a first timer and the net is not the place to buy an engine if you know nothing about them. Photos and set up I can give you but Mr. Baxter is the man to ask any operating questions.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

OK, I was able to get a photo to download for you. Top right nipple is IN and below that is {P} for pressure.

TFF

If the pump is bad you have a couple of options to try. One is tap the muffler for a pressure fitting and bypass the pump. Normal fuel hookup. The other is get a Perry pump and forget the engine one. Either way the pump becomes a fancy back plate.

dafbterry

Great info Gray Beard. Thank you. My engine looks just a bit different than yours but close enough. like I said I had it running and running well, but thought I had it hooked up wrong. I just want to clear up one more thing. The vent tube will be left open and not capped off? And what keeps fuel from exiting out of that passage when inverted or tank full and pressurized?

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Nope, the newer engines are vented, that old one has a pressure system on the pump. One to the carb, one to the main fuel line and one to the tanks for pressure. There is also a nipple on the bottom of the case that is an open line, breather just like on old cars. Used to be called the blow by sometimes on a car. The back plate on the pump can be turned so your pump nipples may be located differently then the one I have. It's simple to tell if you have them hooked up correctly, you either get fuel to the carb line or you don't, if you don't see fuel being drawn into the main line and getting sucked into the carb then it's wrong. Look at the back plate on mine, the top right nipple is the in line, the bottom is the pressure line. No mater what one of the four positions the nipples are sitting at it will be the same. Just maybe someone in the glow engine forum has posted A how to with photos showing you the set up. I had a friend that Had a shop that catered to OS, Saito and YS rebuilding and he couldn't get my old engine running correctly. We could both get it to bench run but couldn't get it to run in a plane. Glow engine forum first and ask Bax in OS support. If it doesn't run well then use it for parts and get a better engine. I rebuild four strokes and to date haven't had one come across my bench, if it did I wouldn't take it in. I don't know enough about them and have never seen one in use. I will look and see if I have that model in a book but I don't recall seeing one or I would have probably put mine back together just for grins to see if I could get it running better. It really is more of a collectors engine more then a using engine.
I have never tried to use an after market pump on it so don't know if what TFF mentioned will or won't work. I was given the one I have and told to see if I could get it to work correctly, I couldn't. I moved onto the newer OS engines and YS engines. In OS I prefer the non pumped versions, not because the pumpers don't work or have a problem but because I prefer the YS engines when I want a pumper. Just a choice thing. Your engine has no open vented line. If you have a three line tank then the third line would be for fill and drain and use a fuel dot.
Gene

MILDBILL-RCU

My Feedback: (6)

Dafbterry, you have the "surpass II" engine going by the link from "_-bay" you gave. I have 3 of these engines & the line hook up as follows, Looking at the back of the engine, there are 2 nipples pointing straight backwards. The 1 on the left, (on "intake valve side of engine") is the return line for unused fuel from pump going back to the tank. The straight nipple on the right, (exhaust side of engine) is the "in" line coming from the clunk inside the tank. The pump pulls fuel from the tank through this nipple. The third line on the back is a 90 degree fitting on the lower right side, (almost bottom). This is the line from the pump to the carb. On the fuel tank you use, you will have 3 lines, #1 should be the clunk line from the bottom of the tank going to the pump nipple on the right. #2 should be the return from the pump nipple on the left, & #3 would be your vent line. On mine, I fill through a "T" fitting in the #1 line from my tank, then cap that off after filling. My vent line goes from the top interior of the tank like normal, then I make a loop with it in the tank compartment & leave the end "below" the bottom edge of the tank. That way, when inverted, the line is above the tank. (inverted) The tank is never "pressurized". The pump pulls fuel from tank, pushes it to the carb. under a small amount of pressure. Then the fuel that is not used by the carb. is then returned to the tank. Not under pressure. Your return line to the tank CAN be a line inside with a clunk on it, or not, that is up to you. Mine just enter the tank & that's all.

dafbterry

You rock! I did get it running in this configuration although I seem to have maybe some carb issues with it. You wouldn't happen to know where I can find an owners manual in PDF form do you? I know this sounds weird but the needle valve has to be full closed to run, and runs well like this. But as soon as I crack the needle valve open a bit the engine becomes unstable and dies.

MILDBILL-RCU

My Feedback: (6)

It sounds like one of the O-rings inside the carb. are not sealing very well. It could also be that the needle and/or seat are damaged. Also could be the regulator diaphragm being stiff & not flexing very well. The biggest problem with these engines are their age, as nothing is really available for them anymore. The O-rings can be changed out, but finding them is the trick. Your best bet there would be finding a mechanic that has rebuilt automotive carburators for years & may have a LARGE selection of these type O-rings to rummage through. There are 3 of them, 2 very small, & 1 a little larger. The small ones would be the ones that would allow fuel to enter the main passages without having to go through the needle valve. The larger 1 just seals the outer housing & would allow fuel to leak out all over everything. If it is the needle valve &/or its seat, that requires a little more alterative thinking on how to redo the clearances that these parts operate with. When things are right, the "GENERAL" needle valve setting will be somewhere from 1/2-3/4 to maybe 1 1/2 turns open from full closed. The actual number of turns is not relevant, except for a starting point to begin setting where YOUR engines runs at. If at 1/4 turn your engine runs good & can be richen'd up if opened a little more AND leaned out too much if closed a little more from that 1/4 turn, THEN THAT IS THE RIGHT NUMBER OF TURNS FOR YOUR SET UP.... PERIOD. Yours might be 1 3/4 turns opened where it runs great & can be richen'd up & leaned out. That's ok too!!! The problems arise when the engine cannot be richen'd AND leanend any further from the setting they run good at. I hope this makes sense to you. On pumped engines, you want to set the high speed needle for the max rpms you can get. THEN LEAVE IT THERE, DO NOT BACK IT OFF A FEW CLICKS, OR A COUPLE HUNDRED RPMS. DO NOT!!! If you do back it off a bit, then low speed & lower midrange will be WAY TOO RICH TO ADJUST.