Why most modellers prefer left counterclockwise turns with their planes?
03-17-2014, 01:16 PM
#176
From the pilots perspective on the ground the right becomes left and left becomes right. From the pilots perspective in the seat though, it doesn't change. I believe this was what he is getting at. Its what confused me when I first started flying. Really easy to confuse left from right when looking at the tail then looking at the nose.
When I first started flying right to left where I fly, I wanted the plane to go to my left, so I gave it left stick, OOPS meant right stick, and bounced it off the wall of the barn. Moving stick to high wing negates the left/right designation, and does make things simpler to teach, something to keep in mind if I ever start to teach my kids how to fly.
When I first started flying right to left where I fly, I wanted the plane to go to my left, so I gave it left stick, OOPS meant right stick, and bounced it off the wall of the barn. Moving stick to high wing negates the left/right designation, and does make things simpler to teach, something to keep in mind if I ever start to teach my kids how to fly.
Just by reading your last sentence, proves that it might be a better way to teach students, the way I do it. I understand what he means when the right wing becomes the left wing when the plane makes 180º turn, but you proved the oppisite when you made the mistake trying to teach yourself how to fly....
Larry
03-17-2014, 01:38 PM
#177
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There are many things that are set up the same way. For example: most race car tracks are driven ccw, as with track events with athletes. Drag races are also going the same direction but not in a circle. US Aaircraft carriers are built with the island structure on the starboard side so the a/c take off and land the same direction as something that would be moving ccw on a track. I'm sure there is a reason for it.
03-17-2014, 03:04 PM
#178
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I still like my "blame it on the wind/weather" reason. Living in north central TX, we get to fly both directions as the north and south winds fight it out most of the winter. In the summer its' usually from the south and HOT! Anyway, we have to learn to turn right or miss a lot of good flying days in the fall/winter/spring season (about 3 months 
)
RJ
)RJ
03-17-2014, 03:33 PM
#179
For someone who taught himself to fly I am doing pretty darned good. Flew all last year with only one incident and that was a battery imbalance on the twin otter. Left engine went to battery saver on take off. Battery voltage checked out OK on the ground, but quickly dropped to cutoff at full throttle. I was able to keep damage to minimum by flaring off just before it hit the corn, and only cracked the nose cone. Retrieved it, glued the ring back on the nose cone, put in fresh packs and flew it again. Nothing wrong with being self taught. I would also say that flying off a short field with tall corn either makes or breaks a pilot.
So far I have maidened every one of my planes and never damaged one on its maiden flight, except for the UM T-34, which is what I learned to fly on. Now I can fly either direction in windy conditions and land it on the numbers.
So far I have maidened every one of my planes and never damaged one on its maiden flight, except for the UM T-34, which is what I learned to fly on. Now I can fly either direction in windy conditions and land it on the numbers.
03-17-2014, 03:42 PM
#180
I've got 14 students and only 2 are below the age of 40. Most have small electric planes 3 channel cub and the apprentice with both auto pilot and no autopilot. One guy I made him put the rudder on the left and after 3 or four lessons he cut ailerons in his wings and made it a 4 channel. He automatically started corroborated turns with aileron and rudder. I have no problem with the student making left or right hand turns tward them selves because when I sit with them before we fly and make them get used to moving the stick right or left an be able to trim the radio with out looking at it. I impress when I say Right they move the stick to the right. Left thy move the stick left. Then there is your other Left or Right. I've found if U impress on the student that right is Stick Right and Left is Left st on the right hand stick ... Rudder left and Rudder Right is the left hand stick. Try it it works. Out of the 14 students there 3 under 16 and they all soloed in 5 lessons or less.
03-17-2014, 10:09 PM
#184
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Some good points - and some not so good ones have been made. I don't believe that torque and/or P-Factor are involved. Since you are not in the airplane,
you won't feel any difference. They might have an effect on a big Cub that is slow and highly visible, but I don't think they would on a pattern or racing
bird.
I discovered the phenomenon early in my R/C career and finally decided that I did better and preferred left hand turns because I was flying INTO my
area of vision, but in a right turn I was flying OUT of it.
Whadaya think? Well, at least it is a completely new idea for those that like to find fault and criticize to do so
you won't feel any difference. They might have an effect on a big Cub that is slow and highly visible, but I don't think they would on a pattern or racing
bird.
I discovered the phenomenon early in my R/C career and finally decided that I did better and preferred left hand turns because I was flying INTO my
area of vision, but in a right turn I was flying OUT of it.
Whadaya think? Well, at least it is a completely new idea for those that like to find fault and criticize to do so
Last edited by EloyM; 03-17-2014 at 10:11 PM. Reason: correct
03-18-2014, 06:54 AM
#187
[QUOTE=EloyM;
I did better and preferred left hand turns because I was flying INTO my
area of vision, but in a right turn I was flying OUT of it.
Whadaya think? Well, at least it is a completely new idea for those that like to find fault and criticize to do so[/QUOTE]
What do I think? Eloy you will receive no cutsey replies from me and you are the only one in this thread that hit on what I also believe is the chief reason for the left turn syndrome. Maybe not every reason but the primary ergonomic reason.
Kudos Eloy
John
I did better and preferred left hand turns because I was flying INTO my
area of vision, but in a right turn I was flying OUT of it.
Whadaya think? Well, at least it is a completely new idea for those that like to find fault and criticize to do so[/QUOTE]
What do I think? Eloy you will receive no cutsey replies from me and you are the only one in this thread that hit on what I also believe is the chief reason for the left turn syndrome. Maybe not every reason but the primary ergonomic reason.
Kudos Eloy
John
03-18-2014, 08:28 AM
#188
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pretty sure the port side was chosen because in the early days of passenger flying......the planes were docked like ships in the harbor...so the door is on the port side......sorry guy....was trying to answer a question from first page.....dang smart phone......
Last edited by PONYBOY082662; 03-18-2014 at 08:38 AM.
03-18-2014, 09:06 AM
#189
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Right answer however most people will not acknowledge it.
Good question, George !!!
It seems to me that is due to most pilots' brains being right-handed.
Note how we and designers draw airplanes on a piece of paper: nose points to the left in each case.
Same applies for any drawings or paints done by right-handed persons: flags, cars, motorcycles, animals, etc.
To those persons, it seems more natural to see their models taking-off and landing with the nose pointing to the left.
Coincidentally, most do more left than right rolls, because they feel that rolling that way is more natural.
Many bicycle and motorcycle riders have the same difficulty for banking or doing U-turns on the right side.
Proficient pilots work hard to eliminate that directional difficulty.
It seems to me that is due to most pilots' brains being right-handed.
Note how we and designers draw airplanes on a piece of paper: nose points to the left in each case.
Same applies for any drawings or paints done by right-handed persons: flags, cars, motorcycles, animals, etc.
To those persons, it seems more natural to see their models taking-off and landing with the nose pointing to the left.
Coincidentally, most do more left than right rolls, because they feel that rolling that way is more natural.
Many bicycle and motorcycle riders have the same difficulty for banking or doing U-turns on the right side.
Proficient pilots work hard to eliminate that directional difficulty.
03-18-2014, 10:13 AM
#190
Seriously there are people that call them selves R/C Pilots out there that can't/won't/prefer not to, Make right hand turns into them selves ie. Right base to final. This doesn't make them BAD People but it does make them "BAD R/C PILOTS". I will not SOLO a Student that can not make a right hand pattern. I will also not allow a Student that does not use RUDDER to turn or keep the plane straight with wings level on final and landing, to Solo. They can get them selves another Instructor because a person that does not or can not use the RUDDER in my opinion is DANGEROUS. And U know who U are even if U refuse to admit it.
As for not flowing a Pattern ie taking off into the prevailing wind and every one flying the same direction on down wind and Up wind isn't just stupid but inconsiderate to your fellow flyers, not to follow a pattern. Sorta like a 3D flyer that insist on doing his "SHOW OFF STUFF" over the runway, with others in the pattern that need to land. If You feel that it's not necessary to follow an established pattern then You are Dangerous to your self and every one else because you are increasing the chances of a head on mid-air.
Every club has some that will have difficulty with certian modes of flight be it a certain turn cross wind ect. But this is fine until or when they because of in experience of Poor flying technique become a danger to them selves or others.
There are many out there that will disagree whole hardheartedly with me, but then U have to consider the source, usually they are the PISS POOR PILOT(s) of witch I speak. Sorry but if the shoe fits.
As for not flowing a Pattern ie taking off into the prevailing wind and every one flying the same direction on down wind and Up wind isn't just stupid but inconsiderate to your fellow flyers, not to follow a pattern. Sorta like a 3D flyer that insist on doing his "SHOW OFF STUFF" over the runway, with others in the pattern that need to land. If You feel that it's not necessary to follow an established pattern then You are Dangerous to your self and every one else because you are increasing the chances of a head on mid-air.
Every club has some that will have difficulty with certian modes of flight be it a certain turn cross wind ect. But this is fine until or when they because of in experience of Poor flying technique become a danger to them selves or others.
There are many out there that will disagree whole hardheartedly with me, but then U have to consider the source, usually they are the PISS POOR PILOT(s) of witch I speak. Sorry but if the shoe fits.
03-18-2014, 10:21 AM
#191
Seriously there are people that call them selves R/C Pilots out there that can't/won't/prefer not to, Make right hand turns into them selves ie. Right base to final. This doesn't make them BAD People but it does make them "BAD R/C PILOTS". I will not SOLO a Student that can not make a right hand pattern. I will also not allow a Student that does not use RUDDER to turn or keep the plane straight with wings level on final and landing, to Solo. They can get them selves another Instructor because a person that does not or can not use the RUDDER in my opinion is DANGEROUS. And U know who U are even if U refuse to admit it.
As for not flowing a Pattern ie taking off into the prevailing wind and every one flying the same direction on down wind and Up wind isn't just stupid but inconsiderate to your fellow flyers, not to follow a pattern. Sorta like a 3D flyer that insist on doing his "SHOW OFF STUFF" over the runway, with others in the pattern that need to land. If You feel that it's not necessary to follow an established pattern then You are Dangerous to your self and every one else because you are increasing the chances of a head on mid-air.
Every club has some that will have difficulty with certian modes of flight be it a certain turn cross wind ect. But this is fine until or when they because of in experience of Poor flying technique become a danger to them selves or others.
There are many out there that will disagree whole hardheartedly with me, but then U have to consider the source, usually they are the PISS POOR PILOT(s) of witch I speak. Sorry but if the shoe fits.
As for not flowing a Pattern ie taking off into the prevailing wind and every one flying the same direction on down wind and Up wind isn't just stupid but inconsiderate to your fellow flyers, not to follow a pattern. Sorta like a 3D flyer that insist on doing his "SHOW OFF STUFF" over the runway, with others in the pattern that need to land. If You feel that it's not necessary to follow an established pattern then You are Dangerous to your self and every one else because you are increasing the chances of a head on mid-air.
Every club has some that will have difficulty with certian modes of flight be it a certain turn cross wind ect. But this is fine until or when they because of in experience of Poor flying technique become a danger to them selves or others.
There are many out there that will disagree whole hardheartedly with me, but then U have to consider the source, usually they are the PISS POOR PILOT(s) of witch I speak. Sorry but if the shoe fits.
Couldn't have said it better myself....
Larry
03-18-2014, 12:09 PM
#195
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I always figured it had to do with p-factor. You have to hold a bit of right aileron in a right turn under power. Some tend to hold to much and begin that long slow roll to terra-stop. A friend of mine who had flown for years admitted he had never made a right hand turn. We buddied up and I made him fly an entire tank making nothing but right turns. Any time he began left I would bank him right then hand the plane back. At the end of the flight he made a perfect right hand approach and landing all the while chuckling at himself.
03-18-2014, 12:35 PM
#196
[QUOTE=Kwigen;11762921]I always figured it had to do with p-factor. You have to hold a bit of right aileron in a right turn under power. Some tend to hold to much and begin that long slow roll to terra-stop. A friend of mine who had flown for years admitted he had never made a right hand turn. We buddied up and I made him fly an entire tank making nothing but right turns. Any time he began left I would bank him right then hand the plane back. At the end of the flight he made a perfect right hand approach and landing all the while chuckling at himself.[/QU
If the plane has half throttle, then it might take more right aileron because it's the troque from a slower turning propeller that trys to take the plane to the left. When the plane has more speed, then it takes less right aileron to complete the turn, as long as some rudder is coupled also in the turn. Next time you watch someone fly, reguardless if it's a right turn or a left turn, take notice of the nose of the plane during this turn. If the nose is pointing up a little, then they are not using rudder. Using a little rudder during a turn will keep the nose even with the horizon or slightly down.
Someone might make a statement like, "That plane just slipped out of the turn". That's because they didn't use rudder....
Larry
If the plane has half throttle, then it might take more right aileron because it's the troque from a slower turning propeller that trys to take the plane to the left. When the plane has more speed, then it takes less right aileron to complete the turn, as long as some rudder is coupled also in the turn. Next time you watch someone fly, reguardless if it's a right turn or a left turn, take notice of the nose of the plane during this turn. If the nose is pointing up a little, then they are not using rudder. Using a little rudder during a turn will keep the nose even with the horizon or slightly down.
Someone might make a statement like, "That plane just slipped out of the turn". That's because they didn't use rudder....
Larry
Last edited by Instructor; 03-18-2014 at 12:46 PM.
03-18-2014, 01:27 PM
#198
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The wind direction, "P" factor and all that has nothing to do with it. Was a few replies correct! It is a totally a "brain " oriented thing. Didn't hear from any left handed persons as to whether maybe a right turn is easier for them though. The guys that mentioned the left & right right with a motorcycle are absolutely correct! Had a Gold Wing 1500. Could make a slow turn to the left on a dime!! Would about dump it over on a right turn. Sense of balance just wasn't there !!
03-18-2014, 01:29 PM
#199
Larry
03-18-2014, 01:55 PM
#200
Yes- - the "comfy" circle for most is left - but if you can really fly stuff - left or right makes little or no difference
It's called learning and that requires repetitive practice to get the little grey cells properly imprinted.
If you ever learned to correctly play musical instruments - - you will have had to experience it.
It's called learning and that requires repetitive practice to get the little grey cells properly imprinted.
If you ever learned to correctly play musical instruments - - you will have had to experience it.