AMA 74894

My Feedback: (1)

correct of course, it's not a gyroscopic effect but an aerodynamic phenomenon ... but it does only cause the airplane to 'want' to turn in the same direction as the propeller is spinning...
(which is typically to the left with RC models / single engine airplanes with a CCW rotating propeller (viewed from the front))

however, since this discussion has remained pretty much a civil discussion, I'm a little apprehensive of your term 'and any suggestion otherwise is BS.'

I agree the airplane will turn left or right just as easily... but It sounds as if the person you're referring to who flies behind the pitts so as to only make left hand turns simply hasn't taken the time to learn and is fearful / frightened/apprehensive of something he perceives to be difficult or dangerous (his perception, not mine)... is THAT the reason this guy has difficulty?

jetmech05

I've driven in japan after a while driving on the left I liked better...the question I have is how do you have an airfield where the pattern is set up better one way than the other...the pattern should be dictated by the wind.... The other thing that surprises me is the number of pilots that have problems turning a certain direction.

essyou35

My Feedback: (11)

IMO, if you fly with your thumbs, it is easier to make small corrections by pushing with your thumb rather than pulling. A left turn requires a precise (set of) pushes with the thumb. then a swift pull right to straighten out. You are also usually pulling down on the stick with your thumb as well. So you are both pushing the stick left, and pulling the stick down. Two separate motions that we can easily combine as they are distinct.

However, when turning right, you are now pulling with your thumb to turn right, as well as pulling down meaning you have to combine two forms of "pull" to get the correct movement on the plane. This composite motion of a single force on one limb requires a lot more concentration.

For those who fly with fingers I think it would be the same issue but maybe not as bad? I only fly with my thumbs.

essyou35

My Feedback: (11)

Re: P-Factor

The right turn issue exists with gliders and jets (turbine and EDF) where the P factor is basically null. Just wanted to point that out. SO I think p factor can be ruled out unless someone wants to say right turns are easier on jets. Which I can tell you they are not when I first started.

I can take right turns with any jet/plane just as easy but note ti does take more concentration on my thumb movements due to a "double pull" I am doing as mentioned above this post.

TomCrump

I make my turns using rudder. How does that fit your theory ?

Sgt. Meyer

I too have spent a lot of time in full-scale airplanes. I got my private in a Champ. I have owned a 1941 J-3 and I have instructed in an early Citabria. When you are sitting in a tandem seat, stick controlled, left-hand throttle airplane, it is much more natural to "push" the stick to the left than it is to "pull" the stick to your right. The movement or pressure against the stick in flight is almost like leaning into the turn and the airplane follows. You have more leverage in a left turn than you do in a right turn. It takes a lot more muscle, or at least a different set of muscles, to make a Citabria do a complete roll to the left.

Whenever I flew a side-by-side airplane with two sticks and a shared throttle in the center, I was much more comfortable in the right seat (that's the instructor's seat, anyway) with my right hand on the stick and my left hand on the throttle.

Even if you haven't had this kind of experience, I think the same thing applies to the sticks on your Mode 2 Transmitter. You probably have more freedom of movement and more precision in a left aileron motion than you do for a right hand motion. Put your fist on your desk and try it.

I'm comfortable executing any pattern, but it is still more natural to make left turns.

As some have said above, it only takes a little practice to become proficient either way.

Steve

TomCrump

Aren't turns supposed to executed using rudder ?

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

So true but of course most don't want to offend another. Too many call themselves RC pilots when in reality these are the same people who can't land worth a dam.

Lifer

My Feedback: (1)

Has anybody in this group ever flown control-line airplanes? They fly to the left, even though the engine torque wanted to turn the plane inside the circle, and had to be compensated with right thrust. For a while, people flew the other way, but that didn't last; it became standard to fly counter-clockwise, or to the left. I did, and now I fly mostly radio, but seem to prefer left-hand patterns. I practice RH turns all the time, but LH occurs instinctively.

There must be a reason.

kwblake

[QUOTE=TomCrump;11700078]That's fair.......BUT, they have both left and right hand turns.........

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I think it depends on where you learned to fly. At my original home field the wind direction dictated we flew our turns from left to right. When I changed fields it was usually a left hand turn. I had a small problem with that at first but then when I flew at my home field I had a little trouble getting back into the right hand turns. It just depends on the predominate wind directions and what you get used to. Come fall the wind would make it so you flew one direction in the morning and the other direction in the afternoon. People that fly from the same field tend to just get used to the normal wind direction and have a problem when it changes directions.
When I'm at the lake bed by myself I use up all of the sky and fly in both directions except for take off and landing, then it depends on the wind direction. All stunt maneuvers I do into the wind.

Sgt. Meyer

The bank turns the airplane. If you are flying a three-channel airplane, with rudder and elevator only, your wings will have quite a bit of dihedryl. That's not there just for stability. When you input left rudder, you are skidding the wing around so that the right wing rises and produces the turn.

If you have all four channels, just as in full scale, the wing turns the airplane. At the beginning of the turn the rudder is applied with the ailerons, not to bank or turn the airplane but to offset the adverse yaw, the tendency for the down aileron to drag and prevent the nose from coming around into the turn. Usually the rudder pressure can be eased off once the turn is established. Then you would apply rudder again with the ailerons to roll out of the turn.

If you have ailerons and you are turning with your rudder, what are you doing with your ailerons??

essyou35

My Feedback: (11)

using rudder it is still a pull vs a push. theory holds.

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

I agree with the prevailing wind digestion but could the suns' height in the sky be another factor. Our runway is orientated from west to east and the pilots stations are situated so the sun is always at your backside.

DISCUS54

My Feedback: (211)

The OP asked why is it all modelers prefer a ccw (left hand pattern) vs the cw (right hand)pattern. This is a fallacy. My preference is to land into a headwind regardless of whether it is a left or right hand pattern and all of the flyers around here feel the same way. We dont feel uncomfortable flying either pattern. All of this discussion about aerodynamics has nil to do with the supposed "preference" that a left hand pattern is preferable. Any new maneuver might possibly be uncomfortable until you become proficient and of course this proficiency will never happen if you give in to your "discomfort" to try new things. People have crashed trying these new things.... Buy a computer simulator and get proficient there first, it will make the real deal a lot more enjoyable.

RiverLarry

Tom EZ just do loops !!! R/L

Sgt. Meyer

Of course your pattern depends on the wind direction. But I don't think the question was limited to the direction of the traffic pattern. Some - if not most - are more comfortable making left turns, even outside the pattern. And I wouldn't argue against getting over it.

The aerodynamics answer was just in response to the question about turning with the rudder.

Didn't intend to get off thread.

SM

TomCrump

How ? Your left hand is opposite. Wouldn't ease of motion be opposite, too ?

I was taught to use the rudder for turns. Aillerons are implemented to control roll.

It is possible to skid through a turn, but counter aileron has to be implemented. If you add too much rudder alone, the model will bank and tip the nose downward.

I use elevator for pitch.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevator_(aircraft)
Aileron for roll http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/alr.html
Rudder for yaw.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudder


By reading these links it appears that you are correct, Sgt Meyer

Sgt. Meyer

YIKES!! We need to get together over in the aerodynamics section. Your methods would be deadly in a "full-scale" plane.

No offense. Just basic technique.

Steve.

TomCrump

Sorry. I used headed when I should have used yaw.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_dynamics

kochj

Why do open SKATERS go counter clock wise?
Or Nascar counter clock wise.

Lightspeed1551

My Feedback: (4)

This is how we do it at our field too. However there is always that one or two A-HOLES who fly backwards and blames it on his inability to turn right. )-=< I always fear losing my plane in a "mid air" with one of these clowns.

THERCAV8R

My Feedback: (283)

We are all NASCAR fans. HAHAHAHAHAHAHa

tigrejohn

My Feedback: (7)

Actually, the CCW convention was eventually the result of a combat defensive maneuver practice dating back to WWI and the Le Rhone engine. This radial engine rotated around a fixed crankshaft rather than a crankshaft rotating inside a fixed engine. Because of the torque created by the higher weight of the engine, snap rolls and barrel rolls to the left and left turns could be done much faster than to the right. And going left in these planes was faster than an opponents airplane that had a rotating crankshaft. Conversely, the opponent had the advantage going to the right on a Le Rhone airplane. This kind of carries today. Out of curiosity when this subject came up, I checked into full sized airport approach patterns. In the main, they left-left-left-left.

ARUP

I've never flown a full scale Sopwith Camel but it has unusual flight characteristics due to its rotary engine which are well documented. You hold top rudder in a left hand turn. Guess what? You hold that same right rudder in a right hand turn. I wonder why? Of course, I'm being factitious! I don't over think any of this stuff. To me it is intuitive. I am a scientific type and like to understand things. If you've ever experienced 'torque steer' driving your auto then you are experiencing similar 'magic'. You compensate by turning the steering wheel to go the intended direction. This is no different in model airplanes except that there is another dynamic to experience in the name of the 'Z' axis.

Of course, like I've said before, it can be habit that causes a flier to only go in left hand circles! Over to you! Cheers! ARUP (whose I.Q. is much larger than his hat size unlike some of the posters here)