Why most modellers prefer left counterclockwise turns with their planes?
01-05-2014, 08:44 PM
#151
The reason most CL flyers prefer flying counter clock wise is because that's the way they were initially taught and possibly because it has always been done that way ...Although there is a contingent that fly their planes clock wise. The reasoning for this could be the "P" factor or torque coming from the engine, which is turning counter clock wise, is somewhat helpful in assisting the plane remain tight on the lines during abrupt aerobatic turning maneuvers..and helps the builder save a bit of weight by eliminating need for more lead in the outside wing and less offset in the engine. One other thought that comes to mind is, why do most modelers continue to fly in a counter clock wise direction ? This could be due to the Corealis Effect affecting their thought processes and supposedly affecting the direction water spins down the drain, which is all dependent on which side of the Equator you happen to live and fly from...
It all really doesn't amount to a serious hill of beans because many of us try to fly some semblance of the PAMPA pattern and half of the schedule is flown inverted.....As for me, I continue to fly in the same direction which I learned in 1950..COUNTER CLOCK WISE !!...Old habits die hard
It all really doesn't amount to a serious hill of beans because many of us try to fly some semblance of the PAMPA pattern and half of the schedule is flown inverted.....As for me, I continue to fly in the same direction which I learned in 1950..COUNTER CLOCK WISE !!...Old habits die hard
01-05-2014, 08:51 PM
#153
Jim B - Didn't mean to upset anyone, just trying to get back on topic - guess I could have been more diplomatic. Sounds like there are some theories here and but no real answers. Still, some interesting possible reasons (though - admittedly - unimportant) (unless you were a WWII pilot and had an enemy fighter on your six who knew you're probably going to break left, due to your training, the late afternoon sun, windage, weekend hobbyists, this RCU thread ...)
Last edited by HoundDog; 01-05-2014 at 09:03 PM. Reason: changed CCW and CW
01-06-2014, 12:08 AM
#154
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Microdon.....
There is a possibility that you did not actually read or consider my answer(s) as to Why Do CL People Fly In A Counter Clock Wise Direction and then wrote me off quickly as a buffoon of sorts. The reason CL planes mostly fly in a counter clock wise direction could be for the very same reasons that many internal combustion engines rotate in a counter clockwise direction instead of rotating clockwise ... The Brits designed engines during the 2nd World War that turned in both directions, Clockwise and Counter Clock Wise........Why did they do this ??? I could offer several good reasons why most mechanical devices rotate in a counter clock wise direction.....Humans are competitive by nature and to properly compete against others there has to be rules and regulations to bring order...Most competitive CL events are flown in a counter clock wise direction, simply because the majority of CL modelers fly in that particular direction.
My intention was in an attempt to provide a simple answer, in layman's terms, as to why many CL pilots prefer to fly their planes in a counter clockwise direction instead of clockwise...it comes down simply because the majority of model pilots have always done it that way while a small number flew in the other or opposite direction and later matriculated over to flying a counter clockwise direction either from peer pressure or a desire to compete. There are no real scientific reasons nor other mysterious influences why most modelers fly in what some consider a reverse direction of CL flight. Am I to suppose my attempt to inject a modicum of humor into such a mundane subject was not addressed deeply enough scientifically, requiring an algebraic mathematic formula or expression to properly explain the question ??...Dear sir, there are no hocus pocus mathematical formulas available explaining the exact reasoning for flying control line planes in a counter clockwise direction while a few modelers still prefer to fly clockwise... It's simply because CL flight has always been taught & done that way and many continue to enjoy flying in a CCW fashion due to an inner fear of being perceived as weird or different from the norm and appearing odd within their peer group ..What It all comes down to really, is again, personal preference. Over 90% of CL competition events around the world...are flown in a counter clockwise direction, although some speed flyers and a few precision aerobatic pilots still prefer to circulate in a clockwise direction.
There is a possibility that you did not actually read or consider my answer(s) as to Why Do CL People Fly In A Counter Clock Wise Direction and then wrote me off quickly as a buffoon of sorts. The reason CL planes mostly fly in a counter clock wise direction could be for the very same reasons that many internal combustion engines rotate in a counter clockwise direction instead of rotating clockwise ... The Brits designed engines during the 2nd World War that turned in both directions, Clockwise and Counter Clock Wise........Why did they do this ??? I could offer several good reasons why most mechanical devices rotate in a counter clock wise direction.....Humans are competitive by nature and to properly compete against others there has to be rules and regulations to bring order...Most competitive CL events are flown in a counter clock wise direction, simply because the majority of CL modelers fly in that particular direction.
My intention was in an attempt to provide a simple answer, in layman's terms, as to why many CL pilots prefer to fly their planes in a counter clockwise direction instead of clockwise...it comes down simply because the majority of model pilots have always done it that way while a small number flew in the other or opposite direction and later matriculated over to flying a counter clockwise direction either from peer pressure or a desire to compete. There are no real scientific reasons nor other mysterious influences why most modelers fly in what some consider a reverse direction of CL flight. Am I to suppose my attempt to inject a modicum of humor into such a mundane subject was not addressed deeply enough scientifically, requiring an algebraic mathematic formula or expression to properly explain the question ??...Dear sir, there are no hocus pocus mathematical formulas available explaining the exact reasoning for flying control line planes in a counter clockwise direction while a few modelers still prefer to fly clockwise... It's simply because CL flight has always been taught & done that way and many continue to enjoy flying in a CCW fashion due to an inner fear of being perceived as weird or different from the norm and appearing odd within their peer group ..What It all comes down to really, is again, personal preference. Over 90% of CL competition events around the world...are flown in a counter clockwise direction, although some speed flyers and a few precision aerobatic pilots still prefer to circulate in a clockwise direction.
01-06-2014, 04:02 AM
#155
I grew up flying control lines and was shown to fly them to the right because the lines stayed tighter then flying flying to the left, especially if you had marginal power, with that said I also did fly them to the left and today it just doesn't matter with my R/C flying, L/H, R/H, inverted or right side up, the airplane doesn't know any difference only the guy on the sticks, just burn more gas.
Bob
Bob
01-06-2014, 07:12 AM
#158
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I doubt it has too much to do with control line flying, since most RC'ers today have never flown CL. True, many CL planes were flown in the CW direction in the early years (I remember a few from the '50's) to take advantage of the engine rotation, but most since have been CCW. I believe the reason was simple, it is easier for a right handed person to "whip" a model flown CCW than CW. Same thing why forehand is more powerful than backhand in tennis, or why pilots might prefer giving left aileron over right in a full size WWII fighter.
01-06-2014, 07:43 AM
#159
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All other issues of directional preferences aside, I believe that RC pilots struggle with only one turn in a right-hand pattern. That being turn #4, the turn to final. If you think about the stick orientation in a left-hand pattern, the aileron stick is always in the direction of flight, ie, turning left, you move the stick to the left. The same thing is true for every turn in a right-hand pattern except for turn #4. It's fine going into the turn, turning on base. Now lining up on the runway, your still moving the stick to the right, but it APPEARS, that the plane is moving opposite to your input. Your eyes are telling you one thing and your brain is telling you something opposite. RC pilots who fly with their eyes typically react to what the plane is doing, and in the case of the right hand turn #4, they can easily lose proper orientation and they struggle to react to the plane. Hence the stress. A good pilot once told me that to prevent disorientation, rely on what you're doing with the radio, remembering your last input. I've even closed my eyes for a few seconds to regain orientation, remembering my last inputs and flying from memory to keep from panicking. It's all a matter of orientation and developing certain skills.
01-06-2014, 07:53 AM
#160
Banned
"Why most modellers prefer left counterclockwise turns with their planes?"
Something to do with people in general, i.e., motorcyclists are more comfortable in a left turn than a right turn. Just talk to anyone that rides one.
Les
Something to do with people in general, i.e., motorcyclists are more comfortable in a left turn than a right turn. Just talk to anyone that rides one.
Les
01-06-2014, 08:43 AM
#161
Instructor
i think we're saying the same thing if the airplane is coming at you and the right wing as you're looking at the airplane is low ( which is the airplanes left wing) you push the stick to the low wing ( which is the airplanes right) to counter. I just find it easier on the student to say push the aileron to the low wing.
i think we're saying the same thing if the airplane is coming at you and the right wing as you're looking at the airplane is low ( which is the airplanes left wing) you push the stick to the low wing ( which is the airplanes right) to counter. I just find it easier on the student to say push the aileron to the low wing.
Larry / Instructor
01-06-2014, 09:07 AM
#162
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There may be someone in NY that turns the "right" way. But either way, I'm grounded until the government tells me which way is best.
Seriously though...while the wind may dictate sometimes, even when we fly in no wind guys still go CCW. It just ends up that we do it more I guess.
Seriously though...while the wind may dictate sometimes, even when we fly in no wind guys still go CCW. It just ends up that we do it more I guess.
01-06-2014, 09:58 AM
#163
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Larry we're doing the same thing. I find it easier on the student to tell them to push the low wing up with the aileron stick. No left or right no stopping and thinking on the students part on which way the cockpit is. Try and visualize as the plane is coming at you rt wing down which is the airplanes left wing...push the low wing up with the aileron stick so you move the ailerons to the right. This counters the roll and the airplane rights itself. This works and the student gets it faster with less mistakes
01-06-2014, 12:19 PM
#164
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Mandatory right thrust made CCW the logical choice so lock in the rudder, make the left wing longer and the rest is history!
"Mystery" solved!
Tom
01-06-2014, 12:27 PM
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Larry we're doing the same thing. I find it easier on the student to tell them to push the low wing up with the aileron stick. No left or right no stopping and thinking on the students part on which way the cockpit is. Try and visualize as the plane is coming at you rt wing down which is the airplanes left wing...push the low wing up with the aileron stick so you move the ailerons to the right. This counters the roll and the airplane rights itself. This works and the student gets it faster with less mistakes
Can't help but think some of you guys do the same thing.
Anyway, everyone I teach I do the same thing..."push the low wing up with the stick". It quickly gets them past the stress of trying to remember that when you first begin flying...but very quickly becomes second nature.
Tom
03-16-2014, 11:53 PM
#166
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We're all wrong. It's a weather thing. We fly our RC planes when the weather is warm(er) and dry(er) ...which means summer time when south winds are blowing. Take off to the south, turn left, fly down wind, turn left, fly up wind, turn left, etc. ....kinda like NASCAR.
We tend to fly less in the winter when the cold and wet wind is from the north ....where we takeoff to the north, turn right, fly down wind, turn right, etc. So, we get much more practice turning left and therefore feel more comfortable doing so.
Now, this theory is predicated on the field being oriented so the pilots face east when flying. If pilots are facing west it gets blown out of the water.
I've mastered the reverse half Cuban 8 so I never turn one way or the other except on landing approach. I just roll, usually to the right (go figure), in the upline and pull elevator until I complete the partial loop.
RJ
We tend to fly less in the winter when the cold and wet wind is from the north ....where we takeoff to the north, turn right, fly down wind, turn right, etc. So, we get much more practice turning left and therefore feel more comfortable doing so.
Now, this theory is predicated on the field being oriented so the pilots face east when flying. If pilots are facing west it gets blown out of the water.
I've mastered the reverse half Cuban 8 so I never turn one way or the other except on landing approach. I just roll, usually to the right (go figure), in the upline and pull elevator until I complete the partial loop.
RJ
Last edited by rowdyjoe; 03-16-2014 at 11:56 PM.
03-17-2014, 05:45 AM
#167
[h=2]Apache Junction Weather Forecast[/h] Monday, 17
85 | 55 °F
Clear
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0%
Tuesday, 18
79 | 52 °F
Clear
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0%
Wednesday, 19
82 | 52 °F
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Thursday, 20
85 | 58 °F
Mostly Cloudy
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Friday, 21
84 | 56 °F
Partly Cloudy
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Saturday, 22
83 | 56 °F Pretty much all winter in Apache Junction June thru August dun flying by 9:30 am
Partly Cloudy We went 70 days with out rain recently then it rained 1 day ... It's the desert man.
Chance of
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0%
Sunday, 23
82 | 56 °F
Clear
85 | 55 °F
Clear
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Tuesday, 18
79 | 52 °F
Clear
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Wednesday, 19
82 | 52 °F
Clear
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Thursday, 20
85 | 58 °F
Mostly Cloudy
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Friday, 21
84 | 56 °F
Partly Cloudy
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Saturday, 22
83 | 56 °F Pretty much all winter in Apache Junction June thru August dun flying by 9:30 am
Partly Cloudy We went 70 days with out rain recently then it rained 1 day ... It's the desert man.
Chance of
Precipitation
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Sunday, 23
82 | 56 °F
Clear
03-17-2014, 10:52 AM
#168
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So. You must be facing West when flying in the mornings to keep the sun our of your eyes. Do you ever to turn right? Which way does the wind blow?
I lived in the high desert in So. Cal. for a couple of years and, as I recall, if you don't have everything tied down or stored inside by 1pm, it will be blown into the next state by the wind. It's been a long time ago but, I don't remember it being seasonal or coming form a different direction. I didn't mind the desert but, I hated that wind.
Hey, how come you live in WI but, fly in AZ? Are you a snow bird? If so, I'll bet your arms are tired by the time you get to AZ or back to WI.
RJ
I lived in the high desert in So. Cal. for a couple of years and, as I recall, if you don't have everything tied down or stored inside by 1pm, it will be blown into the next state by the wind. It's been a long time ago but, I don't remember it being seasonal or coming form a different direction. I didn't mind the desert but, I hated that wind.
Hey, how come you live in WI but, fly in AZ? Are you a snow bird? If so, I'll bet your arms are tired by the time you get to AZ or back to WI.
RJ
03-17-2014, 12:13 PM
#169
[h=2]Apache Junction Weather Forecast[/h] Monday, 17
85 | 55 °F
Clear
Chance of
Precipitation
0%
Tuesday, 18
79 | 52 °F
Clear
Chance of
Precipitation
0%
Wednesday, 19
82 | 52 °F
Clear
Chance of
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0%
Thursday, 20
85 | 58 °F
Mostly Cloudy
Chance of
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0%
Friday, 21
84 | 56 °F
Partly Cloudy
Chance of
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0%
Saturday, 22
83 | 56 °F
Partly Cloudy
Chance of
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0%
Sunday, 23
82 | 56 °F
Clear
Hey, how come you live in WI but, fly in AZ? Are you a snow bird? If so, I'll bet your arms are tired by the time you get to AZ or back to WI.
RJ[/QUOTE]Now Look at the AJ Weather above for the next 5 days and that should tell ya that I'm a lot smarter than the RETIRED DUMMY'S that stay in Wisconsin for the winter Get to AZ in middle of October and back in Wisconsin at end of April .... Best of both worlds and I get to fly almost 333 days the year. Hibernation is not for me.
85 | 55 °F
Clear
Chance of
Precipitation
0%
Tuesday, 18
79 | 52 °F
Clear
Chance of
Precipitation
0%
Wednesday, 19
82 | 52 °F
Clear
Chance of
Precipitation
0%
Thursday, 20
85 | 58 °F
Mostly Cloudy
Chance of
Precipitation
0%
Friday, 21
84 | 56 °F
Partly Cloudy
Chance of
Precipitation
0%
Saturday, 22
83 | 56 °F
Partly Cloudy
Chance of
Precipitation
0%
Sunday, 23
82 | 56 °F
Clear
Hey, how come you live in WI but, fly in AZ? Are you a snow bird? If so, I'll bet your arms are tired by the time you get to AZ or back to WI.
RJ[/QUOTE]Now Look at the AJ Weather above for the next 5 days and that should tell ya that I'm a lot smarter than the RETIRED DUMMY'S that stay in Wisconsin for the winter Get to AZ in middle of October and back in Wisconsin at end of April .... Best of both worlds and I get to fly almost 333 days the year. Hibernation is not for me.
03-17-2014, 12:44 PM
#171
Larry we're doing the same thing. I find it easier on the student to tell them to push the low wing up with the aileron stick. No left or right no stopping and thinking on the students part on which way the cockpit is. Try and visualize as the plane is coming at you rt wing down which is the airplanes left wing...push the low wing up with the aileron stick so you move the ailerons to the right. This counters the roll and the airplane rights itself. This works and the student gets it faster with less mistakes
If the airplane made a 180º turn and the right wing (the one on the right side of the airplane) is high, then you move the stick to the right which lowers the high, or right wing. Same with the left wing. Just try it and you will see what I meam. If this is the way you teach your students and they get it, what difference does it make? Each one of us has a different way of doing it...
Larry
03-17-2014, 12:51 PM
#172
Now Look at the AJ Weather above for the next 5 days and that should tell ya that I'm a lot smarter than the RETIRED DUMMY'S that stay in Wisconsin for the winter Get to AZ in middle of October and back in Wisconsin at end of April .... Best of both worlds and I get to fly almost 333 days the year. Hibernation is not for me.
I know a fair number of folks who happen to be retired and happen to live in wisconsin.
they live there because that's where their families live...
one thing I can tell you is they aren't 'Dummies'
03-17-2014, 12:59 PM
#173
What I'm saying is this: When the airplane makes a 180º turn, the right wing is still the right wing and the left wing is still the left wing, they didn't change positions. You keep saying when the airplane makes a 180º, the right wing becomes the airplanes left wing, not true. If you make a 180º turn in your car in a parking lot, did the right fender become the left fender????
Larry
Larry
When I first started flying right to left where I fly, I wanted the plane to go to my left, so I gave it left stick, OOPS meant right stick, and bounced it off the wall of the barn. Moving stick to high wing negates the left/right designation, and does make things simpler to teach, something to keep in mind if I ever start to teach my kids how to fly.
03-17-2014, 01:13 PM
#174
Pebble Creek Flyers On susset drive in Waukesha WI
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1.3 miles wast of Rubicon on CTYHWY N
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