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glow fuel with 10% castor oil

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Old 03-14-2014, 05:00 PM
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Hawk131
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Default glow fuel with 10% castor oil

I accidentally picked up some glow fuel with 10% oil, will this damage my engines? Will there be any issues with my fly on this low % of oil? I can take it back but it's a drive for me. I was just wondering if will be major problems.
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Old 03-14-2014, 05:06 PM
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Propworn
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Even 10% castor is to low for most engines take it back. If your used to the synthetic fuels you will not like castor anyhow. Low nitro 10 % castor was what we run in the older large Supertiger engines.

Dennis
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Old 03-14-2014, 05:16 PM
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JPMacG
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Is it 10% castor plus X% synthetic oil or is it just 10% castor? 10% castor plus 8 to 10% synthetic is fine. 10% castor with no other oil content would likely be bad for your engine. 10% castor with no other oil content is also very unusual. I'm surprised a hobby shop would carry that.
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Old 03-14-2014, 05:39 PM
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Hawk131
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It is 10% synthetic castor oil, the brand is Magnum fuels and I was going to use it on 2 stroke engines.

Last edited by Hawk131; 03-14-2014 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:11 PM
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JPMacG
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I would not use that in an airplane engine. I understand that competition car guys use 10% oil in their engines, but they consider their engines expendable.
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:01 PM
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JohnBuckner
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Its an absurd lack of oil Do not use it in your airplane engine as is, Heck that's even a risky mix for the car engines. Remember the car guys tend to be happy if they only replace their piston/cylinder sets once a week!

Its a sad commentary on the LHS for selling you this fuel if he knew you were going to use it in airplane glow engines.

You could save yourself the drive by adding caster oil from the pharmacy.

John
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:44 AM
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Hawk131
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It wasn't the LHS fault I picked it out and the owners dad was there not the owner. BTW his dad is in his upper 80s. I'm just going trade it out sunday when the owner comes out to the field.
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:10 AM
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Are you sure that it's not 10% nitro with a castor/synthetic mix of oil ? I didn't see any product, on their site, with 10% oil, but I may have missed something. http://www.magnumfuels.com/store/products.php
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:10 AM
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Rodney
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Originally Posted by Hawk131 View Post
It is 10% synthetic castor oil, the brand is Magnum fuels and I was going to use it on 2 stroke engines.
This need clarification, there is no such thing as 10%synthetic castor oil, it is either synthetic or castor. I think you may be miss reading the contents, probably a mix of synthetic oil with 10% castor oil added.
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Old 03-15-2014, 04:48 AM
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I'm guessing it's 10% each. I like castor in my fuel. If the fuel has enough oil altogether then no, it won't hurt your engine at all. What it will do is make your plane harder to clean than 100% synthetic and any fuel that gets on the outside of your engine will eventually turn black.

I would find out what the total percentage of oil is and if it's enough go ahead and use it or trade it to someone who likes castor oil.
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Old 03-15-2014, 04:56 AM
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Might be RC Car fuel which frequently has 10% oil or less.

I agree with the others. Return it or add oil to the fuel yourself, you will probably need to add a pint maybe more of oil. Have to get the calculator out to know for sure.
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Old 03-15-2014, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawk131 View Post
It is 10% synthetic castor oil, the brand is Magnum fuels and I was going to use it on 2 stroke engines.
I just looked on the Magnum web site and the way they list the fuels most likely the percentage your reading is the nitro content. None of the common fuels list the oil content. The oil mixtures would be listed next such as pure synthetic, synthetic castor being a blend. Or in some cases castor only. If this is indeed the case the standard fuel oil mixture would be correct for your motor but my advice is to check with the store owner.

The label might call it Sport fuel 10% synthetic castor which actually might mean the fuel is a blend of 10% nitro and the oil is a castor synthetic blend the ratios of oil to fuel is not usually listed as the manufacturer determines that ratio. It usually is from about 16 to 18 percent oil content. Special fuels for engines like YS will state specifically something like 20% pure synthetic on the jug.

Dennis
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Old 03-15-2014, 05:16 AM
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Hawk131
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It does say 10% synthetic castor blend, I called him and he said I could use it but the transitions may be a little rough. I called a friend and he said it would be fine in 2 strokes not 4s.

Last edited by Hawk131; 03-15-2014 at 05:24 AM.
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Old 03-15-2014, 05:25 AM
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This is one of those times that an old practice would help and that is something as simple as wetting tip of your index finger with the fuel and rubbing it between your thumb and index. you really can feel the difference between say ten percent and 20 percent oil content.


John
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Old 03-15-2014, 05:36 AM
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John, I just checked both blends of fuel and I don't feel much of a difference between the two, I was going to mix them any ways so it would be like a 1:5 ratio anyways. The owner of the LHS has been flying for 50 years and I trust him implicitly. The other bottle I have been using says 15% synthetic castor blend.
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Old 03-15-2014, 06:20 AM
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The Magnum Fuel website lists all their products with specifics as to contents. http://www.magnumfuels.com/store/products.php

They list the oil content of every one of their blends. Every 10% blend they show has either 18% or 20% oil content. Their special search function does not offer a choice of oil percentage below 12%.

Perhaps an email query to them would clarify the situation for you.

Their naming convention is normal for the industry. It's common to say "10% castor" when describing a blend of 10% nitro with castor oil as the lube. It's also quite common to not list the oil percentage.

They do not list a synthetic castor oil.
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Old 03-15-2014, 06:36 AM
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My LHS is been supplying Magnum longer that I have been flying, I'll send them a email but I'm guessing the oil content is fine, but is the 10% nitro enough to fly my OS engines?
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Old 03-15-2014, 06:37 AM
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The percentage on the label is the nitromethane content, not the oil. No company would make a fuel for model airplane engines with 10% oil in it. If the oil content is listed at all, it will be in smaller print somewhere else on the label. If the jug says it is for model aircraft engines, it will have enough oil in it to keep from damaging your engine.
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Old 03-15-2014, 07:05 AM
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Sounds like a syntax error.

Nitro percentage is usually listed, it's expensive and considered the power additive. Sport engines usually work fine with 5 to 15% nitro, though you don't really get to high performance fuel until the 30 or 40% nitro fuels and they go all the way up to 70% nitro.

The oil percentage for typical glow engines is in the 16 to about 20% range, but on the extremes are very low oil fuels 8 to 12% for car motors (very high rpm, low torque) or a very few large Super Tigre (2300, 3000, 3200 series). The other end of the oil for fuel would be for control line (low rpm, high torque) and some really old piston/sleeve metal designs with steel or sintered pistons, they need oil percentages into the mid to high 20's (23 to 29%).

Most likely a synthetic castor blend means that both synthetic oil and castor are used. Typically any label lists the ingredients in the order that they are present, so there is more synthetic than caster in the fuel. But if the label was full disclosure, then it would list methanol, synthetic oil, nitro methane, caster oil, and dye.

The late Don Nix sold a lot of fuel, having produced Power Master for many years. Most of his fuels used a blend of oils to get properties of each. A slightly lean run does less damage to an engine with a bit of castor oil in the oil used. But you can also build up a bit of varnish with castor (which is what it does when over heated). Easy to clean with the crock pot method.

Last edited by HighPlains; 03-15-2014 at 07:09 AM.
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Old 03-15-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawk131 View Post
It does say 10% synthetic castor blend, I called him and he said I could use it but the transitions may be a little rough. I called a friend and he said it would be fine in 2 strokes not 4s.
I doubt you will find much difference in the transition as the amount of castor is quite low. Some castor is included as someone has pointed out to protect your motor a bit in case of a lean run. A lean run is not a momentary thing it’s a prolonged lean run they are talking about where the engine actually sags from overheating. Synthetics are so good the common practice for the majority is not using a fuel with any castor in it. It does cause more deposits in the engine as castor burns and will leave carbon deposits. This seems to happen to a greater extent in four strokes rather than two strokes. In the early days of four strokes it was not uncommon to open them up and find ports and the back side of the valves as well as the combustion chamber with fair amounts of carbon deposit. The only time I would run castor today is if the engine specifically called for it or an older engine with bushings instead of bearings. It also seems to make more of a mess than the synthetics.

Dennis
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawk131 View Post
John, I just checked both blends of fuel and I don't feel much of a difference between the two, .

Theirs your answer right there Hawk, You really can feel the difference that big in oil content. Amazing how some of the old simple ways can be so telling

Seems as a result of very poor product labeling. As to the poster that feels that common fuels do not list percentages of total oil I would argue that Magnum may be a loner on that perhaps a few others but thank heavens most these days do list their oil content. It was a long hard fought battle in the late seventies to get blenders to divulge their oil type and quanty ratio.

I know I have not and would not since then purchase any brand that would not let their consumer know what we are getting.

John
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:58 AM
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Thank you every one, I'm going to use it, it's just one gallon and I'm going to mix it with the old stuff. I wont be using glow too much longer, I love my gassers, the problem is I have 3 and one isn't running very well, the second was in a little mishap and I need to fix a wing tip, and my last is on a Spitfire that I'm assembling now.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnBuckner View Post
Theirs your answer right there Hawk, You really can feel the difference that big in oil content. Amazing how some of the old simple ways can be so telling

Seems as a result of very poor product labeling. As to the poster that feels that common fuels do not list percentages of total oil I would argue that Magnum may be a loner on that perhaps a few others but thank heavens most these days do list their oil content. It was a long hard fought battle in the late seventies to get blenders to divulge their oil type and quanty ratio.

I know I have not and would not since then purchase any brand that would not let their consumer know what we are getting.

John
John the labels on the jugs list nitro content and the blend of oil. The only ones I have seen that list the oil content are special blends for certain engines or applications such as racing fuel or those for engines like the YS 20/20 fuel and Supertiger engines. The common practice is to list only the nitro content and if the fuel has castor or all synthetic or a blend not the actual percentage. However if you go to the web site they may give the overall percentage of oil used but few will break it up into how much castor or how much synthetic in a blend. Even fewer will tell you the actual brand of oil or its properties. I use Wildcat for that reason, they tell you if you ask exactly what oil is used. Morgan fuels (Cool Power) at one time would not even tell you that much, it was all propriety and a big secret.

In my case knowing the exact oil in the fuel is important. I can purchase Wildcat 20% nitro which they tell me has 18% pure synthetic and run that in a few engines I can add the same oil and boost the oil content to 20/20 and use it in my YS motors. Instead of having to buy several different fuels I can buy cases of 20% nitro and mix just the jugs of fuel I need for the YS engines.

Dennis
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:26 PM
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One further note about oil content in our fuels. YS insists one should use fuel with 20% nitro and 20% oil content. Well I have a very old YS 1.20. Its so old parts are no longer even listed for it. For 10 years now since the last rebuild I have been running it on regular blend 15% nitro. I was told the engine would not last or perform unless I used 20/20. Well I beg to differ 10 years of lugging up gliders, used as a float plane and every day flyer on Sport 15% that old Lazy Ace just keeps going like a bloody Timex. I have to give credit to the fuel blenders the oils they are using today are better than ever.

Dennis

Here is the same plane engine combination (YS 1.20/ Lazy Ace) so long in operation it has gone through 3 covering episodes. I love this combo if anything ever happened to it I would have to build another.
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Last edited by Propworn; 03-15-2014 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawk131 View Post
I love my gassers, the problem is I have 3 and one isn't running very well, the second was in a little mishap and I need to fix a wing tip, and my last is on a Spitfire that I'm assembling now.


Cool so Hawk. what kind of engine are they, which is the one you are having trouble with and whats going into the Spitfire?
Just curious, in my nature I suppose

John
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