Questions and Answers If you have general RC questions or answers discuss it here.

Doping

Reply

Old 04-15-2014, 07:59 PM
  #1  
acdii
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Capron, IL
Posts: 7,992
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Doping

I have a 1/5th SIG Cub I have covered with Koverall(Almost finished covering) and giving a few coats of clear to seal the weave. What is the best method for color coating with Dope? I plan on a Red, White and Blue scheme, with white as the base, and the red and blue as a sun burst. Best method with as little waste as possible. I tried brushing but it tends to streak, and pull the clear in with it.
acdii is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 02:33 AM
  #2  
gene6029
 
gene6029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: wilson, NC
Posts: 1,207
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I just re covered a 40 Stik with Sig Koverall & dope. After sealing the Koverall with nitrate clear, I applied (sprayed) my color coats with butyrate dope. I did a step, by step thread with pictures of the process on another site. Heres a finished picture of the Stik recovered with Koverall & dope. All up weight ready to fly just over 6 lbs......Gene
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	100_1477.JPG
Views:	125
Size:	379.6 KB
ID:	1987411  
gene6029 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 02:51 AM
  #3  
sensei
 
sensei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SAN ANTONIO, TX
Posts: 2,631
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Spraying is what you should do, be sure to spray your entire airframe with the white first, then apply your other two trim colors in whatever order you please.

Bob
sensei is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 04:41 AM
  #4  
acdii
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Capron, IL
Posts: 7,992
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

What do you use to spray it with and what ratio for thinning? Right now all I have that I can use is an airbrush.
acdii is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 04:45 AM
  #5  
mustangman177
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Cisne, IL
Posts: 747
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Oh......you had my hopes up.
mustangman177 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 05:56 AM
  #6  
rt3232
My Feedback: (6)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: hastings, MN
Posts: 5,953
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

acdii

If you have an air compresser you can get an automotive type tuch up gun ( mine is devibless) but harbor fright has on that will do, it will take a bit of learning on thinning the paint. you can get a realy nice finish with them.

But do to the smell and volatility, small quantity needed for model building I have switched to nelsons paints and a hvlp type gun little smell and eco frindly and with some practice you can get a finish as good as any paint, including automotive.

Hpe this helps

Cheers Bob T
rt3232 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 08:20 AM
  #7  
gene6029
 
gene6029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: wilson, NC
Posts: 1,207
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

acdii, I use the very inexpensive automotive touch up guns that Harbor Freight sells. Usually under $20. Depending on the color i'm spraying at the time, i cut the paint at least by 50% with thinner. I spray around 30lbs at the gun. On occasion, i use an even less expensive Badger airbrush for areas that dont require more paint than is in one bottle....Gene
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	100_1463.JPG
Views:	91
Size:	661.9 KB
ID:	1987457  

Last edited by gene6029; 04-16-2014 at 08:24 AM.
gene6029 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 09:15 AM
  #8  
JollyPopper
My Feedback: (6)
 
JollyPopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Mountain Home, AR
Posts: 2,682
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I use household latex paint on Koverall. The choices of colors is unlimited and it is thinned with water and has very little odor. After base color is applied, mask and paint any trim patterns and colors you desire. When all finished with the colors, put a coat of water base poly on it if you want gloss. Makes a beautiful finish with your choice of colors and patterns. And I believe after all is said and done, it is lighter in weight that MonoKote or UltraCote. By the way, these are all sprayed on with a cheap HVLP paint gun at about 30 to 40 pounds of air pressure.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	101_0130.JPG
Views:	128
Size:	129.9 KB
ID:	1987490  
JollyPopper is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 12:03 PM
  #9  
acdii
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Capron, IL
Posts: 7,992
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I have one of those small HVLP detail guns, but the top leaks like a sieve and I wind up wearing more paint than I sprayed. I have a full blown Automotive HVLP gun, by Deviblis, but its way too big for this. I may look into one of the smaller ones since the one I got is too messy. I primed my Corsair with it and had more on me than the plane, even with screwing the top on really tight.

BTW, the Duplicolor Primer, hardens if you try to clean the container with Naptha or enamel reducer. I was like, you have got to be kidding me! Thankfully I had some lacquer thinner to clean up with.

I did paint my Chipmunk with Rustoleum using the detail gun, and most of everything else within 10 feet of me. It did a somewhat nice job, but my tape failed in a few places so now I have to sand and touchup a few spots. It looks nice, but I think its on too thick, which is why I want to try dope this time around.
acdii is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 05:35 PM
  #10  
Gray Beard
My Feedback: (-1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hemderson, NV
Posts: 14,380
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I bought one of the 4 OZ HVLP guns at Harbor Freight for under $14.00 and painted my last two planes with it. About the perfect size gun for our use. I have used it for the main colors only and used Latex House paint and Klass kote. Worked well for both those paints. Once I get the main color on a plane I use an air brush because I really suck at painting the trim. Well, painting is easy but I have a heck of a time masking so I play it safe.
Gray Beard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 03:25 AM
  #11  
TomCrump
 
TomCrump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Traverse City, MI
Posts: 7,613
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Originally Posted by acdii View Post
I have one of those small HVLP detail guns, but the top leaks like a sieve and I wind up wearing more paint than I sprayed. I have a full blown Automotive HVLP gun, by Deviblis, but its way too big for this. I may look into one of the smaller ones since the one I got is too messy. I primed my Corsair with it and had more on me than the plane, even with screwing the top on really tight.

BTW, the Duplicolor Primer, hardens if you try to clean the container with Naptha or enamel reducer. I was like, you have got to be kidding me! Thankfully I had some lacquer thinner to clean up with.

I did paint my Chipmunk with Rustoleum using the detail gun, and most of everything else within 10 feet of me. It did a somewhat nice job, but my tape failed in a few places so now I have to sand and touchup a few spots. It looks nice, but I think its on too thick, which is why I want to try dope this time around.
Duplicolor primer is lacquer, and requires lacquer thinner for clean up. Naptha is an extender, and doesn't really thin anything. It makes good lighter fluid, if you have a Zippo. LOL

I spray with a full size HVLP gun. Using 20 pounds pressure, I have very little over spray. The floor below, is barely tinted with the colors, and sweeps away easily. I thin my paint 40/60, or 1:1.

If this helps you, I thin Rustoleum at 40/60, acetone to paint, and spray at that 20 pounds pressure.

My last paint job, using a gun, was a couple weeks ago. I used automotive enamel, thinned 1:1. There was very little over spray. A week later, I painted a friend's bipe with aerosol cans. The whole shop was dusted in orange, and like you said, everything within ten feet was covered.

For your dope, follow the suggestions posted above. I suggest that you pop for another HVLP gun, if you are having troubles with your current gun.

The HVLP creates far less over spray,. making it worth the investment for that reason alone.

Last edited by TomCrump; 04-17-2014 at 03:27 AM.
TomCrump is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 05:05 AM
  #12  
acdii
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Capron, IL
Posts: 7,992
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

When I sprayed the primer, there was virtually no overspray anywhere, but there was with the Rustoleum, so I may not have thinned it enough. Whats funny is I had repainted my 6' finish mower last year with Valspar equipment paint and it needed Naptha to thin and clean the gun. No where on the Duplicolor can does it spec out what to clean up with, which I found strange.
acdii is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 06:21 AM
  #13  
TomCrump
 
TomCrump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Traverse City, MI
Posts: 7,613
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Regulating viscosity and air pressure can be difficult.

For many paints, thinning to the consitency of milk will provide the proper viscosity. There are tools to measure viscosity, but few of us have, or need them, for our hobby requirements.

When I first purchased my HVLP gun, I was dismayed by the amount of overspray that was being put out. Mentioning this to a friend, he suggested that I lower the air pressure. This worked for me.

I believe that Rustoleum says not to thin past 3:1. I didn't like the way that it sprayed at that viscosity, so I gradually increaded the solvent to 3:2 and even 1:1. I use acetone as the solvent.

For cleaning my guns, lacquer thinner is my choice, as it cuts most paints easily. It's not universal, though. For instance, epoxy may need a stronger solvent for clean up.

Last edited by TomCrump; 04-17-2014 at 06:26 AM.
TomCrump is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 07:15 AM
  #14  
acdii
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Capron, IL
Posts: 7,992
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Looks like I need to get me some more lacquer thinner. No sense wasting the automotive thinner used for spraying to clean the guns. I use Acetone in a lot of things, and also used it for thinning the Rustoleum. I guess I didn't thin it enough since I had to boost pressure at the gun to 30 to get a good spray(hence the overspray). If I can find a way to seal the detail gun better, maybe an o-ring for the top will do, then I can spray thinner paints with it without wearing half of it on my hand.
acdii is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 01:57 PM
  #15  
Gray Beard
My Feedback: (-1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hemderson, NV
Posts: 14,380
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I used my HF pin stripe gun and Klass Kote today to finish painting the repairs on my plane. SURPRISE!!! It came out pretty well, even Tom would have made up a song and phoned all his friends to sing my praise!! Well, OK, I can see my repairs but they aren't looking too bad. Klass Kote uses Lacquer Thinner and it thins 50% after part A&B. Even more surprising was how fast I was able to clean up my gun. Just proof, even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while. I'm still going to send my next plane to Tom for the paint job. No reason to press my luck!!
Gene
Gray Beard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2014, 01:49 AM
  #16  
TomCrump
 
TomCrump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Traverse City, MI
Posts: 7,613
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Originally Posted by Gray Beard View Post
I used my HF pin stripe gun and Klass Kote today to finish painting the repairs on my plane. SURPRISE!!! It came out pretty well, even Tom would have made up a song and phoned all his friends to sing my praise!! Well, OK, I can see my repairs but they aren't looking too bad. Klass Kote uses Lacquer Thinner and it thins 50% after part A&B. Even more surprising was how fast I was able to clean up my gun. Just proof, even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while. I'm still going to send my next plane to Tom for the paint job. No reason to press my luck!!
Gene
Bring it on, Gene ! I plan to paint my 3rd model, in as many weeks, tomorrow. Should I pencil you in for next weekend ?

Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate it.

I'm going to paint my 72" Alien Aircraft Taylorcraft. It's covered in Solartex, and I'll use Ace Hardware brand aerosol cans.
TomCrump is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2014, 05:07 AM
  #17  
acdii
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Capron, IL
Posts: 7,992
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Did I hear this right, thinning Latex with Windex, or was it washer fluid for spraying? My Corsair will be painted with latex I got from Menards, in their half pint samples for $3 each. I got the FS colors and painted swatches, then had them color match the three paints. The top coat will be klass Kote clear. Right now it is in primer, needing a final filling and sanding, and then sealer coat primer. I will use my detail gun for that since it does shoot these heavier bodied paints without dripping all over my hand, then switch to the air brush for the blending part. Since it wont be in any shows, I am not going to spend a lot of time with panel lines and rivets since the kit itself isnt true scale no need to waste time on it. I may do the panel lines and details on the P-51 though since I spent so much time making the wheel doors work in a scale manner.

Once the sealer coat of clear dope is on the fabric, then it can be painted with just about anything, is this right? The tail feathers on the Corsair are fabric and have been sealed with clear, so I can just go over them with the latex?
acdii is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2014, 06:26 AM
  #18  
gene6029
 
gene6029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: wilson, NC
Posts: 1,207
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I haven't found anything i cant put over the clear nitrate dope. I'm assumeing you used nitrate? Butyrate could be a different story....Gene
gene6029 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2014, 09:32 AM
  #19  
acdii
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Capron, IL
Posts: 7,992
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I used SIG supercoat clear which is Butyrate. I had already started using it before I found out my friend had a gallon of Nitrate he was using. Difference is, my Koverall is still white, his has a brownish cast to it from the Nitrate.
acdii is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2014, 10:55 AM
  #20  
gene6029
 
gene6029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: wilson, NC
Posts: 1,207
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Well, you definately wont have a chemical in compatability problem since the latex is water based, but if i were putting the latex over the butyrate, i would sand it first with 600 to give the paint something to grab hold of.....Gene
gene6029 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2014, 12:38 PM
  #21  
acdii
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Capron, IL
Posts: 7,992
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Now that I think of it, I only have one elevator covered, the rudder and other elevator are just prepped with Stix-it, so I could use Nitrate to fill the cloth first, if that will make it easier on me. BTW my detail gun is from HF, but has the plastic up with screw down lid, not a metal one with the press on lid, this is why it leaks so bad, very poor seal of the lid to cup. I wonder if I can just get a metal cup that will fit the gun.
acdii is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2014, 01:56 PM
  #22  
gene6029
 
gene6029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: wilson, NC
Posts: 1,207
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

At this point, i would continue with what you were previously useing, just scuff the surface up before spraying the latex. Also i'd let the butyrate dry for a day or so or longer before applying the latex over it. I have used Minwax water based polycrylic over the Sig Koverall, then rattle can sandable primer, then latex house paint with good results, but never over butyrate. I use Sig Koverall alot, and am allways trying different approaches to get a nice finish. I hope you let us know how it works out for you....Gene
gene6029 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2014, 06:17 PM
  #23  
acdii
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Capron, IL
Posts: 7,992
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I have used Butyrate, then covered it with primer, and it stuck well. My Corsair I glassed with 1/2 oz cloth and Polycrylic. I have it primed right now and started sanding. It is doing quite well.

Here's the chipmunk I did using Dope to set the cloth and fill the weave, the primer and Rustoleum for the top coats.

Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	1425528_624519850923486_725049542_n.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	53.1 KB
ID:	1988065  
acdii is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 01:55 AM
  #24  
gene6029
 
gene6029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: wilson, NC
Posts: 1,207
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

Looks like you have got a good system worked out. The results look really nice....Gene
gene6029 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2014, 04:47 AM
  #25  
littlera
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Advance, NC
Posts: 465
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default

I like using latex, but occasionally use Randolph's butyrate dope over weave fill of Randolph's nitrate clear. I thin all dopes 1:1. I paint it all with a 1" wide camel hair brush. It is almost as good as a sprayed finish. I got tired of the dope clogging up my spray equipment.
littlera is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service