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have questions about using titebond

Old 10-17-2014, 04:45 PM
  #51  
Gray Beard
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When I'm really in the building mode I have about 6 different types of glue for different areas but my main glue is still thin CA. I bought some Sigment for a trip down memory lane and really like it. Seems to set up quicker then it and Ambroids did when I was a kid. The problems I have had with the Tite Bonds is in warping. It really warped areas like fuse doublers. Sigment was a better choice. I build fast and CA is fine with me but it does have it's draw backs as mentioned. Trying to sand sheeting after using CA is always a big thrill, it's like sanding iron!
My bad reaction with CA was/is getting a cold like condition. Now I know what it is and as soon as I get a reaction I quit building for a few days or switch to the Sigment.
Old 10-18-2014, 07:46 PM
  #52  
Hossfly
 
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Originally Posted by Gray Beard
I build fast and CA is fine with me but it does have it's draw backs as mentioned. Trying to sand sheeting after using CA is always a big thrill, it's like sanding iron! XXXXXXXXXXXXX
My bad reaction with CA was/is getting a cold like condition. Now I know what it is and as soon as I get a reaction I quit building for a few days or switch to the Sigment.
Gray beard, I finally got into an allergy program about 4 years ago. For we old fellows, once one gets into a program and stays with it for a year or so, then I now just go maybe for a month, 1-2 days a week and then maybe 2 months > maybe none, the CA problem will go away. It is an allergy problem, but it can be fairly easily handled after a stretch of shots, small needles, in arm, no pain just looking at the pretty nurses smiling at you.
Old 10-19-2014, 04:54 AM
  #53  
dspeers
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Unfortunately CA fumes also have a direct toxicity to all mucosal surfaces independent of allergies. This occurs in the parts per million range and the threshold is only about double what is required to notice the smell (ie 2-4 ppm vs 1 ppm). This can be reduced by good air circulation (fan + air exchange) and maintaining relative humidity at about 45%. Allergies develop after repeated exposure to the fumes, but the risk can be reduced by the same means that reduce toxic exposure. Even wearing a simple mask will reduce exposure due to the trapped humidity increasing the polymerization of the fumes with the surface of the mask prior to reaching your nose or mouth. Doesn't do anything for the eyes though.
Old 10-20-2014, 07:26 AM
  #54  
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Gentlemen, you are proving excellent points why you shouldn't use CA in the first place. It just seems to me that there are other ways to get our models assembled without putting our bodies health in jeopardy!
Old 10-20-2014, 05:22 PM
  #55  
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I have used gallons and gallons of CA+. I used to call the nose and eye burn "getting Zapped" When it would kick and you could see the fumes rise up from the build. Well after 30 5 plus years of build and using CA, I am very allergic to the fumes. Even the foam safe odorless stuff causes a reaction for me. If I am around the CA and kicker, it looks like I rolled in poison oak. I get these welts that ooze this orange colored gunk. Looks nasty and itches to high heaven. I just can not see my self in a hazmat suit to build planes. Just not my idea of fun.

So, what to use in place of CA? I started building with white glue and titebond. So I have gone back to that. Plus I have a nice hot glue setup. This is not the hot glue you get at Wally World or the craft store. This is a high heat acrylic glue gun. Works great but was not cheap. Yet there are a few things that yo really do need CA for. When you thread a hole for a bolt on ply or balsa, thin ca hardens it really well. I hav used the brass threaded inserts in place of the CA. I have also built so many cheap dollar store foam board planes and they only need the cheap hot glue.

So I use hot glue, really hot glue, titebond, epoxy, contact cement to build now. I only buy the 1/4 ounce thin ca now.

Buzz.
Old 10-21-2014, 03:03 AM
  #56  
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I went down to the LHS to pick up some odorless CA to zap the wing panel on a PT20, but they were out of it. They did have some super'phatic glue though so I gave it a try. Not sure of the results, the wing panel is glued but the glue did not seem to wick in like it should. Time will tell, the parts were such a tight fit thin CA may not have done any better.

Calvi
Old 10-21-2014, 05:09 AM
  #57  
sensei
 
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As stated above, it just seems to me that there are other ways to get our models assembled without putting our body's health in jeopardy!"

Agreed, just a little common sense would take care of that...

Also as stated above: I have used gallons and gallons of CA+. I used to call the nose and eye burn "getting Zapped" When it would kick and you could see the fumes rise up from the build. Well after 30 5 plus years of build and using CA, I am very allergic to the fumes. Even the foam safe odorless stuff causes a reaction for me. If I am around the CA and kicker, it looks like I rolled in poison oak. I get these welts that ooze this orange colored gunk. Looks nasty and itches to high heaven. I just cannot see myself in a hazmat suit to build planes. Just not my idea of fun.

So for 35 years you allowed the stuff to rise into your face and burn your nostrils, ZAPPED you as you put it until you became so allergic that you now need a hazmat suite to get near it... Forgive me and I don't mean to sound condescending but you are like the poster child for what not to do... Seriously if I placed my hand into fire and it burned me every time I did it, surely it would not have taken me 35 years to stop doing that, I mean one rodeo of that crap is really enough. WOW!!!

Maybe the answer is to pull things like CA from the market, this would keep the ignorant from breathing it until they reach the toxicity level that their body rejects the stuff violently rather than just placing a small fan that moves the fumes away in the first place or working with good ventilation like some of us have done for over 40 years. While we are at it maybe they should consider removing epoxy resins, hardeners, and any type of automotive or aircraft top coat finishing systems from the market, these are also nasty chemicals that can and do cause allergic reaction issues within the body if used over time without the use of a little common sense safeguarding our bodies during operator interface with these chemicals. You know now that I think about it I heard someplace that gasoline causes all kinds of nasty issues within the body if breathed in a prolonged scenario or digested at the flying field, so we may want to consider that for removal as well. Just kidding.

I say build using whatever adhesives that truly floats your boat, they are all good and have their place if used properly, and safe if we use just a little of that gray matter god gave us between our ears at birth. So gentlemen let's not go off the deep end with all these excellent points of why CA should not be used in the first place, when truly common sense is what should be used foremost and in the first place. Happy Building...

Bob

Last edited by sensei; 10-21-2014 at 10:39 AM.
Old 10-21-2014, 06:43 AM
  #58  
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Agreed....that's whats is usefull about these types of threads Bob, to educate those that are unaware of the dangers that are lurking so that these types of products can be used safely.

Last edited by VincentJ; 10-21-2014 at 06:48 AM.
Old 10-21-2014, 06:13 PM
  #59  
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Sensi, The reaction to the Ca happened all at once. Years and years no reaction. One weekend it was there. Never had a sign before that. If I showed no reaction, how would I know I had a issue building? After that, no ca in the shop. Also being young and dumb is part of life. I started using Ca when I was 7. I stopped when I was 35. Have you ever used thin ca and baking soda?

While your comments about fans and ventilation are meant to educate, I had all of those in place, so now what? I have used epoxy and automotive paints about the same time and I have no allergy to them.

You sound very condescending and very arrogant in your post. I guess you never made a mistake or did something foolish?


Buzz.
Old 10-21-2014, 07:10 PM
  #60  
sensei
 
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Buzz,

you stated I guess you never made a mistake or did something foolish?

Sure I have, everybody has, we learn from our mistakes, we grow from our mistakes, and we move forward from our mistakes, but we just can't afford to spend 30+ years on just one mistake, the learning curve must be faster than that.

You state the reaction started all of a sudden one weekend after only 30 5 + years of being zapped as posted in your words, now you post you started using CA when you were 7 and stopped when you were 35, in my math that is like 28 years. So which one is it Buzz because it is starting to sound a little fishy, the educated might believe that you are here only to muddy up the waters, while the unknowing may take your story as something from the bible.

Maybe I do sound condescending and arrogant in my post, I just don't believe in sugar coating an obvious truth. In my business over the last 40 + years we have in the past and still do today use literally hundreds of gallons of CA, high end euro finishes, and all kinds of epoxies and other volatile chemicals each year. Over the last 30sh years I have been ultimately responsible for the safety of my employees while using these type chemicals. Today we are still growing and I personally have over 160 aerospace type employees that I am responsible for, nearly half use these chemical every day you see so safety first is a moral and legal obligation for me. This is why when I read something like your first post and how careless you made it sound by stating for well over 30 years you called the nose and eye burn "getting Zapped" meaning you allowed it to continue and then when I called you on it you suddenly place a spin on things and become a beacon of a safety minded light that utilized all safety measures and still... Look what happened to poor me, what now? Well honestly, that is your tale and I am currently sitting on mine because that is not how it works.

Like I already stated, use what you want to build with, they are all good if used in the proper application and safe with a little common sense applied. coming into a tread and bashing a product or a methodology of usage simply because of one's own shortcomings in the understanding of that particular technology is ignorant and makes no sense at all to me, but then again hitting myself in the face with a hammer for 30+ years because there wasn't a thread that educated me in the simple fact that this type of behavior could very well be detrimental to the appearance of my face makes no sense to me either.

Bob

Last edited by sensei; 10-22-2014 at 07:18 AM.
Old 10-22-2014, 06:06 AM
  #61  
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Although we are going down a rabbit hole to some degree given the topic of the thread, since I responded once with the goal of helping folks to minimize the toxic effects and to some degree reduce the risk of developing a secondary allergy I will re-engage.While your comments about fans and ventilation are meant to educate, I had all of those in place, so now what?The answer is that for 28-30 years your symptoms were due to the direct toxic effects of CA fumes, subsequently you developed an allergic reaction. At present given the degree of your symptoms, you can try to minimize symptoms by pretreating with an OTC or Rx anti-histamine +/- Singulair (an immunomodulator that works through a different mechanism than antihistamines but requires a Rx) or see an allergist for immunotherapy (AKA shots), although they will stress avoidance in addition to the therapy, or avoid altogether any future exposure to CA. Once you have an allergy minimizing exposure is less effective than when used to avoid toxic effects. The allergic reaction can increase in severity with each subsequent exposure even if the dose at subsequent exposures is reduced. As an aside development of allergies is not necessarily dose related, some folks will develop such after as little as one exposure, some can bathe in a given potential allergen and never have an allergic reaction, and some folks will only develop an allergy after repeated exposures and in this situation actions to minimize exposure will reduce both toxic effects and the risk of developing an allergy. Hope this helps.
Old 10-22-2014, 08:56 AM
  #62  
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Sensi, you are correct. My times are off. Life has flown by and I refuse to believe I am as old as I am. Who is that old man in the mirror? After reading your post and thinking about it, trying to remember the last plane I built with CA, I would say I was closer to 40, give or take a little. I will attempt to be more accurate in my time line from now on.

I was careless. I used the proper gear when I would use paint, epoxy, welding, working on the car. I just did not want to stand there with a respirator and gloves while building my planes, just lazy.

The weekend I had the reaction to CA, we had a build session. My brother, brother in law and I were building in the garage. We had a great Saturday. Monday I was in urgent care with redish splotches that were oozing an orange crusty stuff. That was the first time I had ever had anything like that happen. Doc said it was an allergic reaction to a chemical. The only chemical I know I was around was CA.

If my post sound like oh poor me, that was not my intent. I do not want sympathy for my own stupidity.

I have used a fan since I used the tubes of plastic glue for the plastic models. That stuff gave me a head ache after 5 minutes, so I always had a fan.

I could have used the smack in the head from some one a long time ago. It may or may not have worked. Some time we do need a swift kick or a good scare to open our eyes.

I was tired and cranky when I wrote my post. It was a rough long Monday. I could have done a better job writing it.

Buzz.
Old 10-22-2014, 10:34 AM
  #63  
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As dspeers has stated you now need to take good care of your health, personally I would stay away from CA for the rest of your days because generally speaking once the body reaches the toxic level yours has, just being anyplace near it can cause a reaction.

Bob
Old 10-29-2014, 07:52 AM
  #64  
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I too have developed a sensitivity to the CA fumes. It got to the point that I could only work for about 30 mins and I needed to get away from the project. I have since switched to almost exclusively Titebond and Epoxy, Though I do use CA occasionally for small quick fixes.

I keep a few of these on hand to apply the titebond, http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXGGG7&P=7 by trimming the tip at different lengths, I have a choice of the width of glue bead that I am applying

For large areas, I have a large accumulation of expended gift cards that I use to spread whatever adhesive I am using.

Last edited by crossman; 10-29-2014 at 07:54 AM.
Old 10-29-2014, 05:23 PM
  #65  
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I had a surprise yesterday at the race track. I was sitting with my brother after our first run. We were working on our trucks. As I was grabbing my diner, I felt this burning in my nose and felt this dry scratchy feeling in my throat. As I look around I see a guy about 15 feet away gluing up a set of tires. Of course tire glue is a formula of Ca. So I moved to the open door, had the shop turn on the 2 big fans. After I saw he was done, I went back to my spot in the pits. Seems like we can not get away from the fumes no matter where we go.

When I bought my rims and tires, I asked how much they charge to mount them. Well I paid the $10.00 to have all 4 mounted.

At least that part of my nose and brain are not so fried I can still smell it.

I use the 6 inch wood Q-tips to put the titebond where I want it.


Buzz.

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