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mono-coat

Old 01-02-2015, 05:33 PM
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rt3232
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Default mono-coat

Well santa was good to me I think, back in june I was T/T my bro out in ca some ware in the conversation I said I wanted to replace my old Dragon Lady as it is 22 + years old I quit counting flights at 500 about 10 back so you figure. Any way I got a G/P Extra 300 the week before Christmas, and I know it was discontinued about 2years back, Do to a full bench did not open till to day. one thing missing the MANUAL so I down load one and print. In the first paragraph it tells you to take a covering iron with a sock at HI heat and re-srink the covering well I have never been a fan of monocoat, lots of little bubbles,
So I am following the instructions, but the bubbles are not going away, so I dig into the wife's sowing box and find a silk needle and punch some holes in the bubbles, and hit them with the iron again now I have a lot of little wrinkles. Did this to the under side if one aileron so not a big deal. oh no seams have pulled.

So the question is how to do this ? what is the thing with monocoat, I have never used it was always ultra coat I would hate to have to do the whole bird this way.

So any help or suggestions

And thanks in advance

Cheers Bob T
Old 01-02-2015, 07:28 PM
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sensei
 
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Monokote IMO is one of the hardest ways of covering an airplane, with that said I have covered many models with it because with enough practice... You can get it to go down looking just like paint.

Bob
Old 01-02-2015, 08:46 PM
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rt3232
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sensie

Your are most likely right This is an ARF and came covered but lot's of bubbles so that is my delima, just looking for a easy way to get rid of them.

Cheers bob t
Old 01-03-2015, 08:53 AM
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Bob, the other Bob is correct, with the correct techniques Monokote looks the best of all coverings. It's alson the most difficult to apply. It's also not the same product it was 10 years ago. The key to getting the stuff on and looking good is to not rely on shrinkage. Get it as tight as you can prior to shrinking because it only shrinks so much and the newer stuff shrinks inconsistently. Having a 100% dust free is also important. Now since you have an ARF my hunch is that the covering has already been shrunk as much as it is going to and that is what is causing the issue. If that is the case not much you can do.
Old 01-03-2015, 01:28 PM
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Everything the others have said, I quit using Mono about 15 years ago when they changed it, the problem was a hit and miss thing, some colors shrunk well and others didn't shrink at all.The older ARFs would look great when they left the factory but often the temp differences, humidity and moisture caused the covering to wrinkle and sag during shipping. I have assembled ARFs for people and had some of the bubbles and wrinkles pop right out and others the iron had no effect. If the bubbles don't shrink up after using the pin and iron you are probably out of luck.
Old 01-03-2015, 02:34 PM
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rt3232
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Well guys I have found by using the silk needle and putting 1 or 2 hole's in the bubbles they do shrink out, But it is a vary slow process, so it is driving me nuts, but I am winning.

Thanks for your response's
Old 01-03-2015, 04:31 PM
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I once had a club member that bought a cheap giant scale ARF, a Beaver. It had some mystery covering on it that had all the lines and rivets printed on it. In all my years building planes I have never seen anything with that many bubbles/wrinkles in it. The covering looked like it was some type of shelf paper and the more we tried to remove the bubbles the worse it got. That would have been a nice looking plane but it was so ugly the fellow wouldn't even bring it to our big IMAA fly in.If the pin holes work then good deal, just a lot of work/time needed if it's really bad. You can try poking the holes in the bubbles then try using a heat gun instead of the iron. Sometimes it is faster and sometimes it just makes more gas bubbles.
I just finished an Up-Roar and I used Ultra on the ailerons and this is the first time I wasn't able to remove all the wrinkles. I used the Hobby King covering, Chinacotefor the main covering and it came out tight as a drum with just the iron. The blue Ultra also came out fine, I even tried drilling 1/16 holes in each bay of the ailerons and still couldn't remove the wrinkles, I gave up and decided to just live with it.
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Old 01-03-2015, 06:42 PM
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DGrant
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Its a learned technique. Keep learning.
Old 01-04-2015, 12:40 PM
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I've had my share of problems with Monokote over the past few years, but after trying Ultracoat and 21st Century film, I've gone back to Monokote (except for the models I paint). I think most of the problems were with quality control; you can get bad Monocote rolls, but most are OK. The earlier advice in this thread not to rely too much on shrinking it is sound; the older stuff shrank a lot, the newer not so much. Except for serious compound curves, I pretty much don't use a heat gun on Monokote any more: Just put it on as tight as you can and shrink with an iron.

This isn't meant to bash UC and 21st Century. They do go on easier for beginners. It's partly a question of how you like the different colors. And the Windex method of trimming with Monokote works really well.
Old 01-05-2015, 09:36 AM
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JohnBuckner
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Originally Posted by rt3232
Well guys I have found by using the silk needle and putting 1 or 2 hole's in the bubbles they do shrink out, But it is a vary slow process, so it is driving me nuts, but I am winning.

Thanks for your response's


The tool above was called the woodpecker and its intent was to use before covering on all the sheeted surfaces where Monoocat was to be applied. The reason for the long spikes is that they needed to pass clear through the sheeting to provide ventilation while covering and it works like a charm taking only seconds to do when done right.

Hold on now, Yes I have used it often and oftenI I simply forget so lets move on to where the airplane or a panel is already covered and yes absolutely use the dressmakers pins (a technique I used and have written about often) for example lets suppose you have a single ridge like wrinkle that is perhaps three inchs long and maybe one or two more parallel and nearby.

What I find works fine is to first try with the iron or heat gun to walk the wrinkle sideways over to the adjacent ones so that now you have on big one. OK now stop and keep in mind this is not for open bays but only monocoat over sheeted areas. You now have one long ridge. Take a look at that picture above note that those spikes are about 1/8 in any direction. While you are having only marginal luck with this technique is because you are providing far too few holes one or two is not going to cut it. pepper that ridge line for it full length with the pin holes and now use your iron agine and I think you will be surprise how well this works a far faster than what you are experiencing.

John
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:34 PM
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rt3232
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Ok guys I got the bubbles out, and have been putting in hinge slot and making sure every thing lines up.
so this being my first ARF ware you have to slide the horizontal stab thru the fuse how do you get it in with out smearing glue all over one end/side, the instructions jus tell you to use 30 min epoxy, I am thinking a poly glue that expands and putting it in with needle.

So suggestions Please

Cheers Bob T

Last edited by rt3232; 01-06-2015 at 08:38 PM.
Old 01-07-2015, 07:37 AM
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This is a simple one. The answer to your question is have plenty of paper towels on hand already wetted out with rubbing alcohol (The cheap stuff is fine) and clean it up after inserting the stab then double check the alignment.

Hypo needles and blowup adhesives are very much overkill. Stick with the 30 min.

John

Oh by the way do not forget to insert the stab into position then make a scratch mark with the back side of #11 blade or a pin then remove the stab and cut away the covering film just inside the mark. It is imperitive that you assure this wood to wood glue joint.

Last edited by JohnBuckner; 01-07-2015 at 07:47 AM.
Old 01-07-2015, 09:57 AM
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rt3232
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Hi John

Thanks for your quick reply, and suggestion.

Was at breakfast early this morning with 2 of my flying buddies, they suggested cutting, fitting and tapping cling-wrap to one end/side and having the wet towels alcohol handy. and some acetone at the ready. they also were not to enthusiastic about the polly glue
I did remove the covering and mark the edges in the center, but I am not ready to start gluing any thing as yet, I want to make sure I have all of my ducks in order so to speak.

Will try to post some pic's with some progress info

Cheers bob T
Old 01-07-2015, 11:45 AM
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Hey Bob and cool. If I understand correctly about cutting, taping cling wrap to one end of the stab seems could get a bit messy. Especially so if like me you want to get some of the epoxy in the fuselage slots with a stick first rather than leaving those virgin and depending on the stab itself to completely carry the adhesive in. I much prefer the KISS principle and just use plenty of wetted out paper towels. This can go surprisingly fast.

John
Old 01-07-2015, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rt3232
Hi John

Thanks for your quick reply, and suggestion.

Was at breakfast early this morning with 2 of my flying buddies, they suggested cutting, fitting and tapping cling-wrap to one end/side and having the wet towels alcohol handy. and some acetone at the ready. they also were not to enthusiastic about the polly glue
I did remove the covering and mark the edges in the center, but I am not ready to start gluing any thing as yet, I want to make sure I have all of my ducks in order so to speak.

Will try to post some pic's with some progress info

Cheers bob T
Bob your two buddies are correct, use cling wrap on half of the stab, make sure its tight on the end, top and bottom half of the stab; the epoxy will not cling to the wrap as you slide the stab through its mount. Once the stab is positioned correctly, carefully remove the cling wrap and use paper towels wet with alcohol to clean up any left over epoxy. I have used this method several times, no mess, no fuss.

Roger
Old 01-11-2015, 07:05 PM
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I just slip the stab in to about 1/2" to one side of its correct position in the slot. Apply a bead of epoxy to the STAB portion of the half that matches the fuselage side it sits... both top and bottom.. THEN... slide the stab in... about 1/4"-3/8" PAST its position... so you have that much hanging out the other side... now.. put a bead of epoxy(30min) there.. and top and bottom... At that point you only have about 1/4" to move the stab to final position. So just slip it in there.

After that... lay a fillet of epoxy both sides, top and bottom... For clean-up.. (yes..minor..).. Have a paper towel and some alcohol(denatured is preferred but isopropyl will work too..) .. epoxy will wipe off and be undetectable.. best to have a good light you can reflect from...its easy to see that way...

For the fillets..(I do those after the initial epoxy sets up.. as once you have your component in position you don't want to disturb it)... use straight 30min epoxy, using a popsicle stick(or something close).. dab a small bead of epoxy right into the joint.... dab some alcohol on a paper towel, rub that on your finger... and wipe the bead. There might be some residual epoxy that you'll pick up with the finger.. so have an old newspaper, or something to wipe your finger off... Thats it. simple simple and strong.
Definately use 30min epoxy... its the best for this application... and you have at least 20-25min(depending on climate) of good working time to baby sit your stab, and make sure in doesn't shift.

I've done dozens of these types of aerobats.. another cool thing on them is if your vert.stab goes on after the hor.stab... sometimes you can carefully dab epoxy to the inside of the hor.stab area..Not really necessary on a smaller plane.. as there sometimes isn't room... but a bigger plane affords more room and options... and does benefit from the extra glue.
The fillets can be done on precovered components, its very important though that the actual joint/mating is WOOD to WOOD..as much as you can. I hope this helps and makes sense. Good luck.

Last edited by DGrant; 01-11-2015 at 07:09 PM.
Old 01-12-2015, 06:01 PM
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rt3232
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Well guys I have done it got the stab in and straight, but the 30 min epoxy I had was bad actually set up in the bottles as it was old, my LHS is 25 miles away so with the bad weather ice roads (cold) we have had I went with the polly glue and the only negative I have found after curing it left a slight white line so I will use a long stripping (3") brush and paint it.

Now to the next step, the kit furnishe's plastic (no pin) hinges and tell you to C/A them in. A few years back I lost 2 planes because they split/broke and decided then not to use them again. So now I am thinking on pined hinges 5 in the ailerons 4 in the elevators and 3 in the rudder (I am not a 3D flyer) they just requires a bit wider slot.

Hope to have this bird flying by mid season as I am now waiting on other bits.

Thanks for all of your suggestions and idea's.

Cheers Bob T
Old 01-12-2015, 06:30 PM
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Bob there were hinges in the past that were indeed were a flexible (certainly not flexible enough though. This goes back a lot farther than two years and was generally from early arfs and kits before the fibrous CA type hinges. Yes the advice of the time intended to mount those type of hinges with epoxie but my best advice would be to discard them immediately.

This does not mean you have to go to pinned hinges either single point or flat type though. modern fibrous CA hinges when used with thin CA works very well indeed and there are ca hinges for all types of airplanes. There is nothing wrong with CA hinges and are tremendous time savers. Get good hinges from tower or Sig. I Fly and operate a fairly eclectic and wide variety of airplanes in both performance and in size, must confess most (not all) of my stuff I an quite happy with CA hinges.

John
Old 01-12-2015, 07:58 PM
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One of the things an old timer taught me long ago is to know the temperatures needed to melt the adhesive, and the higher temperature needed to shrink the covering. A little time spent on getting those settings known on your iron will help you greatly. Lay a thin strip on your iron and if it curls, the iron is too hot for initial bonding. A lower setting allows you to get the edges perfectly bonded before you turn up the heat for the last shrinking process. I've tried about all the covering material out there but Monokote for me is the most consistent and easiest to use.

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