RCPAUL

My Feedback: (1)

Good feedback, thanks. I've use Rustoleum and that is what generated my concern.

scale only 4 me

My Feedback: (158)

And BTW, my quesstamation above doesn't include the weight of glassing or any other prep work,, so Yes total weight will always be more than film alone

acdii

True, but with 1/2oz cloth, WB poly and Latex paint, the difference in weight is immeasurable as the majority of the weight evaporates using water based. Epoxy resin weighs about the same wet as when cured. Rustoleum goes on heavy to start with, if you thin it too much for a light coat, it remains tacky and does not cure well. Only upside is it is very resistant to glow fuel where latex needs a top coat. I will be top coating the Corsair with Klass Kote.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I think it was on my last Sukhoi build thread here on RCU that I weighed the plane before I glassed it then used Deft Sanding Lacquer Sealer to lay the glass, 1/2 ounce glass, then weighed it again before painting with the water based latex and posted the finished weight. It was the second time I had built that plane and used all the gear from the first one that I covered with Ultracote. They came out about the same weight.
The Deft gasses off about 80% or more of it's weight and I did the final coat with a 50/50 blend of the deft and baby powder to fill any weave I missed during the glassing. All of that coat is sanded off. If done correctly glassing and painting really doesn't add weight.
What I did find out later on after the Swoose build is the Deft isn't fuel proof!! I split a tank with the YS engine and dumped a full tank of fuel inside the plane. It soaked through the wood and I have spots where it delaminated. Looks like bubbles in a plastic covering job.
I don't glass a plane that is going to be glow powered but the swoose was a special project. Up to that point I thought the Deft was fuel proof. I used Klass Kote paint on that plane so the paint wasn't effected.

smkrcflyer

The information in this thread is exactly what I've been looking for. I have a few planes I'm working on and I don't want to use plastic covering.

I have not painted a plane yet so I'm trying to put a process together for Latex painting. I'm working with two types of structures open and sheathed. I would like to use water base Polycrylic because I work in my basement and the epoxy order is annoying and gives me a headache. Below is what I've come up with so far please comment as needed.

1. Apply non-water base sanding sealer to all wood surfaces. Is Minwax sanding sealer ok to use? I can't find Deft.
2. Apply covering using Polycrylic. For open structures I was going to use Koverall and for sheathed ones fiberglass. How do you decide what weight fiberglass to use 0.5oz or 0.75oz or other?
3. Fill weave with PolyC and baby powder as needed.
4. Prime the plane with white or gray water base paint depending on the finish color. Behr paint seams to work well thinned with water as needed.
5. Sand primer as needed.
6. Apply color using Behr exterior paint thinned with water as needed. Is Floetrol needed? Does it mater what type of paint finish you use flat or semi-gloss?
7. Apply water base clear top coat if needed.

I know some of this is trial and error but I'm just looking for a starting point from the people that have done this before.

I'm going to the WRAM show this week so I'm going to see if anyone is selling fiberglass cloth.

Thank you for the help.

scale only 4 me

My Feedback: (158)

For me, .5, .625. .7, or .75 cloths are so close it's hard to tell the difference, any will work for general covering, Obviously the thinner the cloth, the less filling needed. I think I have .625 aka 5/8" oz,, bought a bolt years ago.

TomCrump

I have a differing opinion of Rustoleum. I do not find it heavy, nor have I had it remain tacky for an excessive period.

I have painted several models using Rustoleum, and have been more than pleased with the results.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

Having done both the WBP and now more with laminating resin, I find the Laminating resin to give a better finished product. It is stronger. The Peel ply method works great, especially on wings. This only requires one application.

littlera

If anyone is interested, this is the mixing formula I have used for a few years now. I spray with a Badger 400 detail gun at about 35 psig. I do not use an oilless compressor, but have fitted a water separator, which does a good job of removing any entrained oil from the compressor along with condensate. This is important to prevent fish eyes in the finish.

I use Behr Interior/Exterior Hi-Gloss Enamel, medium base (I think the computer selects the base depending on the color, but it has been medium for the colors I have gotten so far.) The can says No. 8400 - I guess this is the Behr stock number.

I have used various clears with poor results (Duplicolor automotive is not very fuel proof.) I think I will use Klass Kote next maybe. I am at that stage on two planes presently.

[TABLE="width: 252"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 336, bgcolor: transparent, colspan: 4"]Paint Mix Formula by Volume (fl.oz.) for Latex
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl67, bgcolor: transparent, colspan: 4"]to spray from Badger 400 gun and lay smooth
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
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[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]material
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]fl. Oz
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]% of paint
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl64, bgcolor: transparent"]% of total
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]paint
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]16
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]100
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]65
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]water
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]5
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]31
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]20
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]denatured alcohol
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]2.7
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]17
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]11
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]floetrol
[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]1
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]6
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]4
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]24.7
[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

As far as painting goes I'm sending my planes to Tom to do for me. Truth is I'm fine with the base color but really stink when it comes to the trim, doesn't mater what paint I use!!
Deft: Don't use it ever, I mean ever in an enclosed space, it will knock you out. Even in my small shop with the door and window open it can get to me, the stink is really nasty!!!
The finish of it however is so nice I don't need to use a primer and the latex sticks to it really well. That's just a choice thing though.
I have gotten warps using water based products so when a friend put me onto the Deft I was dazzled by how well it worked. It sands very well too.
I agree with Steve, 1/2 ounce to 3/4 ounce is hard to tell the difference but the weave is easier to fill with the lighter cloth.
Thing with glass vs covering is that any imperfection shows up very well with glass and paint. I tend to use CA for sheeting and CA doesn't sand well at all so you can really see every little bump and lump.
For folks that have never glassed before I tell them to make up a couple of false wings and try the different methods and see what they like the best then perfect it with time and skill. I wouldn't go back to resin again if I got the stuff for free.

scale only 4 me

My Feedback: (158)

I started laying on the Satin finish Systems 3 WPU, the sheen is hard to pick up with the camera, but it looks better than the straight flat IMO, and Has proven to be totally glow fuel proof with the cross linker

TomCrump

Gene

You should pay your kids a visit, and while you're at it, bring a model that needs painting.

I could get it painted while you are enjoying Northern Michigan.

VG: I'm with you on the laminating resin. I prefer it over WBPU, too.

Like you, I've used both methods. Recently, I used oil based polyurethane on a glassing project. While I have the airframe glassed, I have not been able to proceed with priming and color coats. I'll have to reserve judgement on the process until after I finish.

scale only 4 me

My Feedback: (158)

I'm with you on the Resin vs. WPU for glassing, although the no mix and no mess staright out of the can of WPU is conveniant, took me about 5 coats to fill the weave on these and that's just 5/8 oz cloth, With epoxy resin it would have been 2 coats and done

acdii

I did my Corsair in 2 coats of WB Poly, BUT I used a base coat of EZE Kote. http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/DLMBD37 This did not warp any of the wood, or made it pucker, let it dry, light sand, then glass over it with Minwax Poly. I followed up with second coat to fill and it came out great.

The wheel area on one side of the wing I left intact when I glassed, it, then cut it out. It has been out a year now and still holding its shape, and is very solid. What I like about the Poly is that it will give, where resin will crack.

Forgot to mention, the EZE Kote is fuel resistant too, which is why I used it as a base coat in case of a fuel leak from inside.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Well Tom, maybe someday but it would probably be spring when the Perch are running. She would like me to be a fishing and hunting guide for her resort and my wife as the desk clerk and office manager. Neither of us are into cold, wet or humid so it doesn't look good.
The EZE coat Acdii mentioned is a good idea to use during the build. When I split the tank the fuel sprayed from the front all the way to the back of the plane and absorbed into the wood in nothing flat. The Swoose was the only glow powered plane I glassed that I recall building, that's why I thought the Deft was fuel proof. I just assumed.
Learned in one day that I shouldn't just take things for granted. I was only thinking water proof.
I posted a thread in kit building I think you guys may like.

scoobiemario

My Feedback: (8)

Ive used latex paint on my TF P51 recently and i really liked how easy it went on and how good it looks like I sprayed it with HF finishing gun at about 30psi, thinned with windex. I am going to use latex for my next planes too.

yel914

I think I read somewhere that the System 3 clear coat is the same as Nelsons Clear Coat. I've used Nelsons and found it next to impossible to spray, but I was able to foam brush it on with pretty good results. Klass Kote also works great but it cost me about $75 to clear coat a 1/5th scale biplane...ouch!
For those looking for more good info on glassing with epoxy and WBPU, there is a nice long thread on RCSB. Details the steps involved by many different builders using different techniques.
I've had some trouble in the past using Rustoleum. Some is more fuel proof than others and what was once fuel proof may no longer be due to reformulation. The color match is sometimes dicey also.
I eventually reached the conclusion that the easiest way to fuel proof was to go electric. But that's just what I do.

scale only 4 me

My Feedback: (158)

I was told the same before I tried it a couple years ago,,

Don't know how you tried to spray it, but it needs to be cut (thinned) at least 1 part paint to 1 part water to spray though my airbrush, just like the latex paint. Lay on 3-4 maybe 5 mist coats and you have a nice finish.

I'll ad this for what it worth,,
Yesterday I really had to clean my airbrush several times, more often than normal spraying the clear, it was gumming up the tip quickly,, must be the lower than normal humidity with this cold weather,, stuff is drying fast. Luckily it cleans easy

good luck

acdii

I have found that the Rustoleum White turns yellow within a couple weeks of spraying. Was not happy about that.

littlera

scale only 4 me, I appreciate the tips on using the System 3 clear. I have two planes that are at this stage now (latex painted) and I am going to order some and give it a try. One is a glow plane, one gas. I guess it does not matter, as apparently this stuff will stand up to either.

I checked the System 3 web site, and found it is cheaper to order 8 cans of the 4 oz stuff plus a bottle of cross linker than it is to order the 1 quart "kit" that includes the cross linker. It is $52.85 vs. $59. Seems odd. Should I order maybe 4 of the 4 oz. size and a bottle of cross linker? What is the shelf life of this stuff? Once painted on, is this product really resistant to yellowing? Most of my projects are color trims over white, and yellowing PU is just not a good option for me. I need crystal clear as much as possible

scale only 4 me

My Feedback: (158)

No, one bottle of the crosslinker is plenty for a Quart of paint, you only use 8 drops per ounce of paint,

Haven't noticed any yellowing on my kingfisher,,, going on 3 years since I spayed it, I'll post a recent picture later

Shipping cost wasn't supper cheap, I think the charged me $10 for the 2 jars I bought,, still a great value IMO

cjet

If I remember correctly, at one time the Nelson web site stated it was System Three paint. However they offer matching colors for Monokote in small amounts or rather plane size amounts. My Crosslinker had an expiration date of about 1 year out from purchase. The paint did not. I have used the Crosslinker beyond that date with no ill effects so far for touch up, but I will buy fresh before I do a complete plane. I used 10% glow.

Finally I messed around a while before I cleaned my touch up spray gun and that was almost a mistake. Once it started to cure it was hard for me to clean out. I did brush some as well and it was pleased with that.

TomCrump

Just about any over the counter oil based paint will yellow. It's not noticable on dark colors.

Waterborne paints, like Nelson's, will not yellow.

littlera

Scale only 4 me, I maybe did not explain well. I know one bottle of crosslinker is good enough for at least a quart, so I priced 8 cans of the 4 oz. product plus one bottle of crosslink. This is where the $52.85 came from. That is $5 x 8 + $12.80 for one bottle of crosslink catalyst. That is in effect a quart, but small bottles.

Good news: The System Three site lists local dealers by zip code, and apparently most Sherwin Williams stores have it. One locally never heard of it, but the other (that serves automotive and industrial clients) said they don't stock but can get it. They quoted me $52 (plus tax) for a quart of clear including the bottle of crosslinker, which is $7 cheaper than the System Three site, and they will charge me no shipping. Good deal. Mine is on the way! Thanks again for your insight.

scale only 4 me

My Feedback: (158)

oooh, missed the shelf life queston,, was reading and running out the door, Not really sure mine is 3 years old and seem fine,,

Huum, I'll have to talk to my local SW,, they are right down the street, I've been looking for a WB alternative to Lacquer for my full scale wood work

p.s.
cjet
My bottles have no expire dates at all


three years old