cstevenpeterson

My Feedback: (21)

I have been hearing and reading a lot about injuries while working around running engines and I started thinking about what I would do if I or someone else at the field had a serious injury to a hand (as an example) as a result of coming in contact with a turning prop. My basic first aid kit in my trunk would not really suffice in the event that the injury was a serious open wound so I ask... Are there any recommendations for basic first aid supplies and their application in such an event? Of course this would only be meant to treat the injury until proper medical attention was received.

There must be some M.D.'s or EMS personnel in this hobby - What is your recommendation? Thanks in advance.

Steve

rc-sport

My Feedback: (12)

csteve, I don't have any answers for you but thats a question to ask. I'd like to know also.

spokman

My Feedback: (2)

In the case of arterial bleeding. Large gushing spurts of red blood please tourniquette unless it is the neck, then pray. For other injuries use direct pressure to contain bleeding. I"m not an EMT but I've take a lot of first aid courses.

CP140

Our club recently invested in an industrial type first aid kit and mounted it to the wall of the shed at the field. I don't know that you'd have to go that far...

I'm thinking basic first aid...PUT ON A SET OF GLOVES, pack the wound with clean dry dressing(gauze), wrap wound snugly to keep dressing in place/pressure on wound, watch for shock, go to hospital/ dial 911. Heck you could probably do a half decent job with a clean T-shirt and a long piece of fuel line!

I guess all you would really need would be some gauze dressings/pads and a couple of triangle bandages to tie the dressings in place.

GrnBrt

My Feedback: (5)

It is unwise to use a tourniquet if you don't have the training as it can cause even more damage to tissue due to lack of blood to the lower extremity, say the hand. Learn where the pressure points are located for an artery and just apply enough pressure to slow down the bleeding while applying pressure to the wound. I have a commercial first aid kit in my van and it's well stocked and every few years a replace anything that has an expiration date on it. In case anyone is wondering I was cross trained as a medic in the Army and used it a lot in 'Nam on some very serious injuries. I would even suggest that you spend the money and go to the red cross and take their first aid classes as who knows you may save the live of a friend or a family member. I keep mine current and that's why I made the statement about the tourniquet.

Grampaw

This thread raised questions in my mind as to why we don't have First Aid Kits on field, plus the know how to use it's contents in an emergency. Anyone know if the AMA has any rules regarding Chartered Clubs on this?

A phone call to a local Red Cross office could lead to contact with an EMT service that provides such presentations to interested parties. I'm also going to query our group to find out if there are any trained or qualified First Aid people among us. I think I can still find most of the Pressure Points on the body, thanks
to an excellent First Aid presentation many years ago by the Canadian Air Force.

I'm going to make a few calls in our area and will post the findings.

DBCherry

My Feedback: (4)

Grampaw,
Many clubs (both of mine for example) are in pretty remote areas and the public can simply walk through at anytime. We have trouble enough from vandalism to our frequency board, a first aid kit would likely disappear within the first couple of days. We are not allowed any structures other than a sign and frequency board at one field, and NO structures at the other, so a lockable building isn't an option.

I take the club sign down before hunting season every year, but paint ball guns should be banned. [:@]
Dennis-

greenboot

My Feedback: (1)

The smaller engines seem to produce cuts which may or may not require stitches. Unfortunately, the bigger gas engines and helicopters have a greater potential for life theating injuries. Your concern for safety is much appreciated.

Another tip I've heard for remote fields is to have clear directions available for rescue vehicles. Often steets are unmarked and there is no street address.

Tom

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

A couple of years ago one of my good friends was trying to start a stubborn Super Tiger when the prop bit him and took off the entire tip of one of his fingers. The only thing we could stir up at the field to help him was a red mechanics rag and a couple of #64 rubber bands. I decided that was never going to happen again. I now carry a trauma kit with me in my van when I fly. I went to a friend who is a flight paramedic with the state police and we looked at the most probable types of injuries we would experience at an R/C field. (1) Minor to severe lacerations to include possible amputations of fingers, (2) eye injuries, (3) Burns and (4) insect or snake bites.
He gave me a list of all the items he would need to stabilize these injuries until medical help can either get to the site or we get the flyer to an emergency room. He also spent some time with me showing me how to use the items properly. One of the things he quickly pointed out is that we had no source of water to flush dirt from an injury (especially ones involving the eyes) make sure you include STERILE water in you kit. Once I put together my kit, several other members did the same. My friend also pointed out that very few "first aid kits" have the needed materials in the to deal with a severe laceration or amputation of a finger. Most are stocked to deal with minor "band-aid" injuries. One last suggestion he made was to have someone stand in the middle of our field with a hand held GPS and get a GPS position of the field and post it on a sign at the field. Should a serious injury occur any member calling for help on a cell phone can tell the 911 center your exact location if the patient needs to be airlifted for treatment. Most R/C fields are in out of the way places that emergency dispatch centers do not have listed in their data bases and usually don't have an address.
This is a good topic for club meetings by the way. Go to your local Fire/EMS unit and explain to them the types of injuries you may experiance. Ask if they can do a presentation to your membership on how to stabilize someone with a severe hand laceration or amputation.

cstevenpeterson

My Feedback: (21)

Hi Folks,

This is one of those subjects that we all most likely think about from time to time, but many of us probably do not get too serious when it comes to being prepared. When my wife and I had our first child, we signed up for an infant CPR course - never needed it, but it was good insurance. I like the idea of going for a basic first aid course. The reason I started this thread is that I thought some of the potential injuries from this hobby could be beyond what I think may be covered in basic first aid (that may not be the case). Although maybe not too frequent - it is good to be prepared. Probably like most of you, when I injure myself while working around the house, I use whatever is handy - paper towels, duct tape, CA, etc. If I feel that I can "afford the time", I will actually go get a band aid!

As usual here at RCU, there are some good replies so far - any other suggestions? Thanks.

Steve

rc-sport

My Feedback: (12)

I'm going to contact my local fire dept about doing a seminar at our next meeting, this is a serious issue I've never thought about. Great thread.

jessiej

Like GrnBrt I got more practical experience in first aid than I ever wanted in Viet Nam. I would like to emphasize that the finest and most complete first aid kit is useless if you don't know what to do with it. I highly recommend the first aid and CPR courses given by the Red Cross.

I was recently injured in a traffic accident and bleeding heavily. I found it comforting when one of the first to the scene was another old Marine who knew what to do.

jess

birdnest

We have a small first aid box attached to our frequency board, I stock it with baindaids and gauze pads and isopropyl. Anything beyond small stuff is going to mean a trip to the ER. I would think that a cell phone would be a requirement, and I take mine with me to the field. Direct pressure to a wound and a trip to the ER will cover most injuries. In addition, Since many modelers are 50+, it certainly would'nt hurt to take a basic CPR course. Cardiac events can happen anywhere, anytime, and being able to provide basic CPR until help arrives can save a life. Again, having a phone is critical.

Peter

cstevenpeterson

My Feedback: (21)

I know that the replies to this thread are never going to replace proper training and equipment, but I think having some knowledge is better than none at all. For some reason I never thought about having the local professionals come to a club meeting to give a talk about basic first aid techniques specific to our hobby. Thanks for the suggestion - I think I will look into that.

Steve

DustOffUH1

My Feedback: (2)

I too also recomend Red Cross training in First Aid and CPR. This story has nothing to do with RC but feel its important to get a point across. My wife & I own a house way up in the Northwoods of WI. A very remote area. A couple years ago me and 4 of my best friends went up there for superbowl weekend. We got to my place put the groceries and beer away, and all of the sudden one of our friends colapsed, stopped breathing, and we couldn't feel a pulse. Unfortunately, at the time, none of us had any kind of knowlege or training. We got a hold of the local fire dept, and they dispatched EMT's. This is in winter, roads are bad and we're 6 miles from town. Needless to say, it took them a while to get there, (minutes seem like years) and within that time, our very good friend died in my hands. I was "trying" to give him CPR, just from what I've seen on TV, but it just didn't work. BTW he was 42, never smoked, and walked practically every where he went. He only recently bought a car. Anyway, my main point being, is that you really never know what might happen. So its best to be prepared at least a little bit. Since then we have all taken first aid & CPR, and I have 2 EMT class first aid bags, at the house. So I always have one close by when flying. Even if you can't keep something at the field all the time, these bags I have take up little room in a vehicle. They weren't cheap, but I feel they're worth every penny.
Joe
PS CPR training isn't just about how to do it. It educates you on how to realize what might be going on with someone. When I was watching one of their videos I said %$#@ that's exactly the way Gozo looked and acted before he had his heart attack.

CP140

CCRC1...

Good point about the sterile water for flushing eyes etc... hadn't thought about that... If I may though, I'd suggest some normal saline(sterile salt water with same concentration of salts as blood) as it would be less iritating to the eye... easiest way to get it is to buy a bottle of SALINE solution(not cleaning solution!!...it REALLY stings!!)for rinsing contact lenses with...my wife used hers on me when I wound up with wood dust in the eyes... oh yeah, wear eye protection in the shop!

CCRC1

My Feedback: (13)

Actually, my kit has both sterile water and saline solution. When I get a chance I will try to find the list of stuff in my kit and post it here. You can purchase most of what you need at any medical supply. But, before you use your supplys for any emergency, you should get some guidance on how to use them properly. Its not that difficult and most volunteer EMT/Paramedic folks are willing to teach you if you ask. Those folks that recommended CPR training are also giving good advice. My CPR mask is the first item on top when you open my kit.

kdheath

A lot of us modelers are not as young as we once were. Make it a club project for everyoneto take Basic Life Support and first aid from the Red Cross. Get those GPS coordinates posted at the field and keep a cell phone handy.

Did you know that it is not the speed of transport that makes helicopter evacuation so useful? It is the time saved between the incident and the beginning of resuscitation efforts that makes the difference. In the event of cardiac arrest, you have 4 to 6 minutes to act if the person is to have any reasonable hope of decent survival. In the event of a stroke caused by a blood clot, you have less than 5 hours to get the person to a first class medical center equipped with catheters, radiologists, and the clot busting drugs. Trauma surgeons and all emergency medical folks talk about the "golden hour". If you can get a seriously injured person to a trauma center in an hour, their chance of survival is very high. Each hour after that, the chance of survival drops another 10% or so. Time is everything.

I don't want to rant on any longer, but I do want to make the point that a little preparedness can pay off in huge quantities. I'm a surgical ICU RN trained in Advanced Cardiac Life Support. Let's take good care of each other!

Kelvin

CrashBurn69

My Feedback: (1)

One great things clubs should have, if they can afford it, would be an AED, automatic electronic defibulator. Anymore when you have a CPR class they include training to use one, and its almost dummy proof. There has been some very good ideas put out. But another thing if you can get them is make sure to get a couple different size gloves. And if you can get the latex free instead of the rubber ones. You never know if someone is allergic to the rubber, and if you need a helper to work on someone, its best to have a small and large set of gloves. Latex free gloves dont strectch like rubber so you need to get close on the size. And for everyone that has had to use CPR or might need too in their lifetime, just a word of advice. Its one of the best skills you can learn, BUT if you have to do it on someone and they dont survive despite your best effort, dont blame yourself if it does not work. Many times you can bring someone back, but every so often, and more often than not, the problem is so severe that nothing can help, or at least nothing without an operating room right there and a skilled surgeon on the spot. I am a Respiratory Therapist for a large local hospital, so unfortunately I use my skills in a weekend more than most people will in a lifetime. Another thing you might want to think about is making a specific injury alarm. If you have a bunch of people rushing out to help someone and others are in the air, they might accidentally hit someone. Like have an air horn and hit 2 short blasts followed be 2 long blasts or something. That way everyone knows there is a problem and to clear out the imediate area. And also to give easy access to medical personel.

kdheath

Good thoughts about the gloves and the alarm horn, CB69. Our hospital's standard glove is made of nitrile, in a really pukey purple color. Gloves are especially good if there is bleeding or some other body fluid to deal with. An oral resuscitation mask is nice, too. Man, we could set up a regular MASH here, we aren't careful!

CafeenMan

Regarding tourniquettes. Try pressure first and get to the ER. A tourniquette often leads to an unnecessary amputation.

PS. Wear heavy gloves to protect your hands while starting engines.

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

The absolute first thing you need to do is to call the local 9-1-1 center and have an address assigned to your flying site, that way there will be no question when the ambulance is called as to where the site is. Then post the address on a sign at the flying site, where it will be readily available to anyone in case of an emergency. In my professional opinion, the best thing that can be done is to apply pressure immediately to the wound. If the wound is on the lower extremities, or arms, then raise that extremity up higher than the level of the chest. Keep the victim still and quiet. Don't panic. Easier said than done, I just try to remember what I was taught in med school. The first pulse you need to take is your own. Keep a clear head. The main thing you need to do is to keep open their airway. IF they go into shock raise their feet, keep their head down. The old edict is "If they are pale rasie their tale (lower end), if they are red, raise thier head".
Make sure everyone who is willing knows how to do CPR. Make it one of your monthly meeting agendas to have a CPR, basic first aid class.
Don't try to do anything fancy at the field. Leave it to the professionals.
Tommy

cstevenpeterson

My Feedback: (21)

Great advice! I assume you are an MD? Here in New Jersey (unlike some folks in more remote areas of the country) we are not too far from medical assistance and our club has made sure that the local rescue squads know where the field is. I am going to pursue having a basic first aid course given at one of our club meetings. Thanks to everyone for all of the great replies thus far.[8D]

Steve

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

Acutally, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last nite....
Yes, I am a physician, but all of the things I mentioned are things that everyone of us can do in case of an emergency at the flying field, and are good examples of why we should not fly by ourselves.
Tommy

cstevenpeterson

My Feedback: (21)

Hi Doc,

I am not trying to get trained via a thread and I do not want to put you on the spot here, however; I am curious about age. I am beginning to train my 8 year old son to fly. I make sure that he is well away from and behind the aircraft at all times, but at some point he or some other youngster may be bitten by a prop (as an example). We have every age group from 4 year olds to 80 year olds at the field. Is there a big difference in how you would go about treating the various ages in the first few minutes after the injury?

Steve