TyBryner

Hey everyone.. Has anyone noticed a difference in any monokote purchased recentely? (within last 6 months or so)?

I was having a bit of trouble covering a wing, and I'm quite new, so I chalked it up to inexperience and had my neighbor (who has considerable experience with these things) help me with the other wing.

I had enough still to do the bottom half of the wing, and he started to show me how he covers. It didn't take long before he started to get frustrated himself, the wrinkles just didn't want to shrink out of the covering. At first he thought he might just be rusty, anyway once we got it to a somewhat acceptable state, we continued onto the top half of the wing.

The bottom took the end of my roll, and he had enough of a roll left of some white (same product, but several years old, white top-flite monokote) to finish the wing. With the older stuff, as soon as he hit it with the heat gun, it shrank down almost immediately to the nicest smoothest finish I've ever seen on this stuff. And he said this is how it's "supposed to work". So now we're wondering if top-flite changed their formula, or if maybe (hopeuflly) I just got a bad roll. Has anyone else suddenly had any trouble lately with it not shrinking without a lot of heat and coaxing? And even then, not quite shrinking to a really smooth finish?

bhole74

Coverings sometimes do tend to vary with different production runs, especially color. I had a similar problem with some black Monokote, didn't seem to shrink as much. Haven't had any problems with other colors, though.

Campy

My Feedback: (1)

IMHO, the quality of Monokote, especially the adhesive, has deteriated a lot in the past year or so. The shrinking ability has also deteriated, not only with Monokote, but with Econokote and Towerkote (same as Econokote) as well.

I have not found this to be true with Ultracote or SolarTex (fabric). Both of them are low temp, but I don't think that makes much difference (if any).

rmh

Here is what happens
When this stuf is made -- a roll of plastic is run thru a process which "pads" on the color -sorta like a printing press-and the painted color is then run thru a drying process-then rewound onto a roll.
IF - the drying process is done under tension and or too much heat --- the material shrinks in one direction .
So -you tryto use it and it shrinks in only one direction . NFG

The material (plastic used , is supposed to be stabilized slightly but capable of shrinking in all directions.
If it was screwed up before th color was padded on - then chances are it will simply grow and bag and sag.
Monokote is not the same plastic as Ultracote -and the paints used are also very different.
I also have likely used Monokote for the last time -
I get good results but for curvy stuff, I far prefer using Ultracote.

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

You are not dreaming. I have recently noticed a considerable shift in the quality / shrinkability of MK. I was seeing variations from roll to roll (not good when covering a huge plane) On some rolls, I used normal heat, on others I had to turn the gun up to "core-of-the-sun" temp to get it to shrink. I was also seeing color variation which I had not seen in the past. I got tired of that and I have since switched exclusively to Ultracote. UC us a little more sensitive to heat (i.e. it works and shrinks at a much lower temp) , but once on, it is awesome. Since the heat is much lower, it does not bubble either. If applied correctly and with care, UC does not need to be re-shrunk like MK does - I have some planes that I have never touched since originally covering (one year old or more) . Another plus is that UC is a lot easier to peel off when you want to recover / re-scheme your airplane, which I do every year on my big investments.

I have covered 7 large scale (33%+) planes this year all with UC, hundreds of flights with no pulled covering or wrinkles!

I was a total MK snob, but I have to say , I have been converted...
Anyway - not trying to get a MC vs UC debate going here, but you might want to consider trying UC on your next project...

DP

Lake Flyer

My Feedback: (13)

I once had a pretty good reputation for doing a real nice covering job with MK. The last 3 planes I covered were the worst covering jobs I have ever done! I don't know what I will use instead but I will never use MK again. I suspect they found a cheaper way to produce it and increased their profit. Hopefully before long everyone will quit using it and they will be forced to produce a quality product.

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

I think you folks have hit on something here. I have been buying quite a bit of MK and UC thru (gag) EBay just to have stock around. Hate needing a color and having to order from Tower or Horizon and wait days for delivery. Prefer to have rolls lying around and simply grab one and go. Anyway, getting back to the thread, I have picked up some relatively old MK, some still having the price tag of $7.95 on the outside (how old is that?). And the sad fact is that these OLD rolls seem to work much better than the stuff I am getting from the mail order houses. A real shame and maybe a telling story that the old stuff far out performs fresh stuff. Would be nice if someone with some authority from TopFlite were to read this thread and perhaps file it away in his memory and when/if their sales suffer, remember it.

AirGar

My Feedback: (7)

Hmmmm....OS Engine's didn't "buy" the rights to Monokote, did they?

I've been buying loads of MK, as I have at least 6 planes I'll be needing to cover. I hope you guys are wrong 'cause I sure don't want to use Ultracrap. Of the arf's I've had, all the Ultra.(ok).cote one's would sit there and wrinkle, while my Monokote one's would stay tight as a drum.

I've never had a "bad" roll, and as a matter of fact, I'll be covering my first plane very soon with MK that I just recently purchased (2 days ago).

.....we shall see!

Gary

bojangle

I've been using Monokote almost exclusively since it came out some 25 years ago. I can honestly say I have had very few problems. My planes have been in the extremes of temperature, from below zero in the garage, to sitting out in hot sun, never had to touch up anything in all those years, no sags, no wrinkles, no loose seams.

Perhaps that's because I've learned the little tricks to make it work. Any problems I had were my fault, some days nothing seems to go right. Most important, judicious sanding, cleaning, sealing and prep, sanding, cleaning. I use Balsarite film formula on the entire plane, then a light "sanding" with worn out paper. Yeah, I know, hair spray...but hair spray doesn't seal properly. If the wood is extremely soft/porous, I add a bit of talcum powder to the Balsarite ( a trick from woodworking days). I did have a problem with a roll of transparent that was over 15 years old, it did not want to shrink. So I grabbed my industrial heat gun and said, "this is going to shrink or melt"...it finally pulled down and no future problems.

Some of my friends use Ultracote and love it. They tell me it is easier to work with, and it comes in great colors. But they also tell me that whenever the temperature changes, they get sags and wrinkles, easily touched up. Monokote does require a lot of time and patience. I just finished a plane, took about 40 hours to cover. If you are in a hurry, or need to redo, use Ultracote. Both are excellent, it's mostly what you are used to.

I seldom use a heat gun, only the iron with a hot sock. You have to stroke the film from "solid to air", rubbing down the solid as you go. The film needs to be tight and absolutely wrinkle free before shrinking. You need air holes, a path for air to escape. Never re-heat solid areas or they will bubble. Monokote is a lot of work, and not forgiving of mistakes. If you think you got a bad roll of MK, send it back, complain like crazy. Send email to Top Flite (Hobbico?).

BO

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Covered a 30% Waco a while back with 25" rolls of white M/K for a friend. I have been covering for more than 30 years and prefer M/K to all others, but those were not good rolls of covering. Sent them back and got new ones for the trouble. I once got a roll of M/K that didn't have any adhesive on the back, a long time ago.

Mistakes happen to them all. Take it back to your hobby dealer if you haven't used it all and get another.

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

If anyone has MonoKote that they think is bad, it should be sent right to us. We'll replace it. We don't want you to have to deal with stuff that's just not working out. Just give us as complete a description as you can as to what you think is wrong with the material. Send that note to us with the bad MonoKote. We DO need to have the bad material so we can give it to the Chem E's who work with the stuff to determine what the problem is.

Thank you.

jettstarblue

Now THAT'S customer service!!!!!
WAY TO GO!!!!
Uh, too bad I don't use Monokote......

John Wells

My Feedback: (10)

Ty, I did get a few rolls of white about a year ago that would NOT shrink properly. I've been using Monokote since the 80's, and I know how it used to shrink. I met one of the guys from Great Planes (Kevin?) last fall in Chicago. He said he wasn't aware of the problem, and he sent me replacement rolls. They shrank better, but no where near as well as the stuff I got in the earlier years. I love the looks of Monokote, but something is definitely different. BTW, colors other than white seem to still shrink fairly well, just that darn white! After using at least 200 rolls in the last two decades, I knew it wasn't me when I saw it happening, and I posted something here on RCUniverse a year or so ago. The white just saaggged from the heat gun instead of tightening up. I sure hope they look into it and find out what's different! It's a great covering when working like it's supposed to.

JW

TyBryner

By the time I realized it wasn't supposed to be as hard as it was, the roll was used up. I do have another roll on the way to finish the plane though, I will report back on if it works out better than the first..

Thanks everyone for the replies.

gwk

I want to tell you guys on RCU, I've had some defective products (very few) from Tower. I'll tell you one thing, they'll take care of the problem!!!!!. I've been doing business with them for 10 (yes, 10) and never have the question my complaint. Bill a Customer Service is a great compliment to this web.

Greg

bojangle

Great service started way back when Tower was a few kits sold from a garage, and their catalog was a 2 page flyer.

I wanted to add some things about coverings. They should be stored at room temperature, not excessively cold or hot. Irons lose their heating ability with age, use a thermometer to check. From my own experiences, I would not keep coverings stored for years, as I think the material takes on a "set".

BO

MarkNovack

My Feedback: (3)

A few years ago I got the "one foot free" deal. By a 7' roll of Monokote for the price of a 6' roll and so I stocked up on colors. I soon noticed, as some of you have, that it was not the same Monokote that I had had good luck with previously. Defective? I am sure of it. The white was the biggest culprit, but other colors proved less than top quality also. I have since discovered a much better product. I still have a box of Monokote from which I give free pieces and rolls to people as they desire. There is simply too much inconsistency in the material to risk the finish of my airplanes.

Mark

TNRabbit

I sent a link of this post to Top Flite's web site; maybe we'll see some changes!

TyBryner

I got a 2nd roll last week to finish up the plane, and applied it over the weekend.. I still had a pretty tough time getting any wrinkles to shrink out. It wasn't so bad that if I hadn't seen that stuff that was several years old shrink so fast and perfectly, I probably would still have just figured it was inexperience.

I love that monokote has so many choices, but I think I might give something else a try and see if I can get a better finish on my next plane.

TNRabbit

You know, I was having a heckuva time getting my Monokote to stick the other day; turns out I hadn't removed the plastic backing... DOH!

rmh

Make no mistake - the Monokote film and the paint adhesive has changed over the years.
I just used some new yellow/dark blue and red-
All of this requires a bit different technique compared with original Monocote.
this batch grows a fair bit on initial heat - - then shrinks and shrinks well.
Typically there was a little growth before shrink.
The fix is to warm slightly -pull and tack as much as possible on large areas
heat gun then lightly rub in with damp pad.
BUT

On some areas - you have to start in center and push a sock covered iron outbound .

It is all in technique required for each job
Fillets are a ***** but Monokote is best for this job.

John Wells

My Feedback: (10)

Hi Dick, I got the 7 for 6 rolls and nothing would help. The covering was dead or something. I'll give your tip a try on the next roll of good monokote that I use.

Thanks,

JW

macdona

My Feedback: (3)

Finally, some one else with Monokote problems. I thought it was me, after buying two rolls at the local hobby shop and found it didn't go on as in the past.I swore I wouldn't use it again, untill I had to do some repair work, and found an old roll that worked like the old days. I will not buy it again though. Burned once, their fault, burned twice, my fault.

Mike in DC

Bill, I really appreciate the offer, but can you answer a question? Are all the colors supposed to work the same? I have had the exact experience as JW (RCU-RCU) with white. I did a plane in white and red, and the red was an absolute joy to work with. Just point the heat gun at it and it would tighten up immediately like a drum. With the white, I just went nuts pulling and stretching to get all the wrinkles out. I was using the same technique (obviously) on both colors, but they definitely didn't work the same.

My thought at the time was that it is probably very difficult to make a very thin white film that is as opaque as possible, and the chemists went for opaque rather than excellent shrinkability.

My point is that there is no point in sending in stuff for replacement if the MonoKote folks acknowledge that the different colors (particularly white) act differently.

TyBryner

I did a four star a few months back, and this was the first plane I ever attempted to cover. Covered it in yellow monokote, and even with no covering experience it was easier to shrink than this white plane is turning out to be.

I didn't even consider that it might be the color until I started reading your replies here, I just thought maybe I had a bad batch or something. But now my curiosity is peaked too. Is the white different intentionally? And if so, why the change when it used to shrink so well?