crashergs

My Feedback: (8)

Hey guys!


This what I alwayyysss wanted to do. Set a wiresless camera with very good video quality, a wireless gps system, and the Eagle Tree Telemetry system, and take my aircraft out to the high desert of california and let it fly for 3+ miles away from me, using a notebook connected to the reciever of the wireless camera.

Can anyone give me tips as to getting me closer to that dream I have? Would a JR XP6102 computer radio with a 700S PCM reciever on a 6v battery let my plane fly further than 2 miles?
Any help would be appreciated.

tintinthepirate

I am not an expert, but I think 3+ miles is well beyond the range of any legal R/C transmitter, so I guess you will have to design an on-board auto-pilot system that works together with GPS . Also I am wondering what wireless camera is capable of sending high quality image/video to receiver 3 miles away? I think even things like this exists, I wouldn't light enough to fit into a model plane. I think a on-board mini-DV might be a better choice.

mnmills2

We did a similar thing a few weeks ago with a Kadet Senior. We mounted a very small digital camera on the bottom of the plane. We then made a mount inside the plane for a Garmin GPS receiver that was set to record every 3 seconds. We syncronized our watches with the GPS time and started GPS recording. Put the wing on and fired her up. We noted the time the engine started to the second. THen flew the plane quite a ways away because it is so big. Brought the plane back and hooked everything up. We have a copy of PFPS on the laptop which will accept the download from the GPS and it will give you very detailed satelite imagery. We played the tape on microsoft media player in a small box on the screen. At the same time PFPS was playing our flight in a small screen next to it. PFPS will allow you to replay a flight real time and overlay an airplane symbol on top of satellite imagery to show yo where you have been. The aircraft symbol was updated every 3 seconds as that was how fast the GPS was recording. So we could play the video and the satellite imagery side by side real time because we recorded the engine start time which made it easier to line the video and satellite imagery up. Nothing wireless but a simple more practical solution.

Hope this might help.

Mike

Highflight

My Feedback: (4)

Nope, you're limited to about a range of 1 mile by the FCC and the legal power limits that have been placed on our transmitters. Any more and the Feds will want to talk to you (probably the department that handles potential terrorism).

So, why 3 miles? A mile range (although that's pushing it a bit) is plenty when that 1 mile range means 1 mile in any direction from you. That's already quite a few square miles you can have some fun in. Isn't it?

I hate it when these questions come up because the first time some fool flies an RPV and hurts somebody, the RC hobby will be instantly regulated to the max and could even be looked at as a "subversive" activity. This kind of stuff may sound like fun, but it is NOT good for the hobby.
Be very aware that RC aircraft are ALREADY covered and regulated as "unmanned" aircraft no matter what size they are. The reason we don't bump up against the FAA is because we are currently flying at limited geographical locations (our flying sites) and at low altitudes. The moment you go beyond those limits, you enter into the National Airspace System (NAS) and you are JUST as responsible for your actions as if you were flying a full scale aircraft at the same place and altitude.

Highflight

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

There is a guy at CCRC up in Acworth, Ga that has a setup like you described. I don't know his name but if he is on RCU, I hope he speaks up.

crashergs

My Feedback: (8)

I appreciate your responses, but I should re correct myself. I dont want the rc aircraft to have the radio tranmitter have a distance of 3 or more miles.... like you said an autopilot system with waypoints that will talk to the gps. I want a system that all those parts can communicate with eachother. I have 300.00 to spend on a system like this, I notice you guys use oem garmins, but thats all I know, I dont know what equipment you need to successfully have a UAV. Can someone mention exactly what equipment is needed to set up a uav, maybe a garmin oem + TinyTrak (whatever that is).

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

Due to the sign of the times, most modelers will not disclose that kind of information even if they do know.

pauluk2w

My Feedback: (7)

I don't understand why you or anyone else would want to do such a thing. even if i know how to do it i would not tell you. all i can say is get a life, people like you are the people that put this hobby in jeopardy if you do end up flying that far please post some more info and data and hopefully someone will report you

crashergs

My Feedback: (8)

paul stttttffuuuuu, man you sounded ignorant, I already know howto do it now.

www.rc-cam.com has all the information to do UAV's. thanks for your "help"

pauluk2w

My Feedback: (7)

Hey maybe i do sound ignorant but i love the hobby i am in and do not want anyone to spoil what we have i dont know why anyone needs a uav capable of 3+ miles (except the military). so if i sound ignorant so be it these are my opinions and people do not have to agree with me. I have my opinion and you have yours. so if i sound that way im sorry but i will stand behind my opinion. this is a great website with a lot of great people and im not saying your not a great person but i just dont see any need in it. we have laws and rules we have to follow in this hobby so why should people want to to anything that could eventually have our privilages taken away from us. flying model planes is not a right its a privilage. if you do go ahead with what you are doing i wish you luck in your endevour. Maybe i just donot understand why you want to do something like this, i dont know

Highflight

My Feedback: (4)

Pauluk, I'm glad you and some others are starting to think through this RC RPV thing through and understand the serious implications it WILL have for the RC hobby that some of us have invested our lives in.

Just to let you know you're not alone, here's some more on the topic.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291648

Highflight

DBCherry

My Feedback: (4)

crashergs,
With all the talk about terrorists using RC planes to carry explosives, everyone is a bit skeptical, especially when someone new shows up here asking questions about how to set up a UAV.

A little more info about who you are and why you want to do this shouldn't bother you, unless you have something to hide.
Dennis-

Highflight

My Feedback: (4)

Just because you "can" do something doesn't meant that you "should". And by the way, the "rc-cam" site is one where onboard video and photo cameras are discussed for the purpose of recreational aerial photography. It is NOT a site that promotes RPV/UAV activities.

A friend of mine who is a police officer has a friend who is a Federal agent (FBI). My police friend is also into RC, and we got into the discussion of terrorist RC, even making jokes about maybe "Terrorist RC" might one day become a SIG of the AMA.
OK, bad joke, but me and my buddies like to keep things light.

Anyway, he mentioned offhand that HE had brought up the same subject with HIS friend (the "fed" ), and his buddy told him that the FBI does, in fact, monitor many areas of interest on the web.
So you see, crashergs, you may be just a smart mouthed kid wanting to get noticed by your flying buddies for doing something not often done because it's really great when everyone around you says "wow" and bows to your wonderful accomplishments. Just be aware that "others" are noticing your accomplishments as well. After 911, things got a little more "different".

Here's some things to think about as you proceed:

1. You will have NO insurance coverage for RPV activities. The AMA won't cover it, and I can guarantee you that your homeowner's insurance won't cover it. Any property damage will be coming out of your own pocket, and more interestingly, if someone is seriously injured or harmed from your RPV fun, you may be financially liable for the rest of your life considering that typical jury awards for injuries reach into the millions every day.
2. Your pursuing RPV activity will encourage OTHERS to pursue it. So even if you don't personally cause harm, you are encouraging others to do so.
3. As soon as you go RPV, you almost immediately enter the National Airspace System which means that you are governed by EVERY rule that governs all other commercial and private aircraft flights. The moment a manned aircraft reports a near miss, or worse yet a hit, by your RPV, you are subject to all the same laws, fines and consequences as is a pilot of a full scale aircraft. The difference is, that most full scale aircraft "incidents" are caused by "error", while RPV activity is sure to be judged more harshly.
4. Even those private companies who use RPV's in their business are highly regulated BECAUSE of the NAS issue. Is there any reason you believe that YOU flying RPV's is just "playing with toys" and that you won't have a squadron of FAA enforcers waiting for you when you land? You better believe that your little flight about the NAS patch will show up on radar and set off some lights in the control room.
5. As mentioned, and because of the "times" we live in, you have very likely already been "noticed" based on what my friend's FBI friend said. While I personally have no way to find out who you are or where you live, don't for a moment believe that RCU and any other Internet gateway will not help, if asked with a warrant from the Feds, to identify who you are.

The RC hobby is a life long and life changing experience for many of us, and we RC guys don't want to have to fly under any more rules and regulations than we do now. That's why many of us in the hobby try to discourage RVP activity, especially now that it can be technically done.
If you really DO love this hobby, put... the... GPS.... down. There's so much more to enjoy without getting into something that would transform the hobby from one of carefree fun to one of regulation, limitations, and enforcement.

Highflight

crashergs

My Feedback: (8)

this post was put in the wrong forum I was just goint to get flamed down, this post was meant for rc-cam in the UAV forum.

Tall Paul

.
Whatever.
With any luck at all, any responses to this idea will generate the same information.
Don't do this!
Highflight lays out the law precisely and accurately.

Highflight

My Feedback: (4)

I'm pretty sure, crash, that if you post the same kind of question about "3 miles or more" and "GPS guidance" and flight outside of visual control, that you will "get flamed down" in rc-cam just as you think you have here.

ANYONE in the RC hobby that has thought through ALL the possible and likely consequences of goofballs wanting to fly UAV/RPV aircraft will try to talk you out of that activity faster than a tail heavy Gee Bee.
This hobby means a lot, and I mean a LOT, to many of us who've made it a lifetime endeavor, and we are NOT going to let those with no sense screw it up for us. I'm simply asking you in as friendly but direct way possible to NOT be one of those with "no sense".

Here's a simple cut n' paste from a question in the FAQ from the rc-cam website. This should make it VERY clear to you that the intent of the rc-cam site is for "in sight" control of your video aircraft. I bolded the relevant part:

Q. What is the range of RC-CAM4?

A. Using the custom collinear antenna on the XCam2 transmitter, you should obtain 300 to 400 feet of range. It would be possible to extend this range to about 600 feet with improvements to the antennas. A 50mW or higher RF amplifier on the Tx would help too. The details to user submitted improvements can be found in the RC-CAM Forum archives.

By the way, the PEP radiated power from the XCam2's patch antenna is 25mV/meter (measured at 3 meters). This equates to less than 1mW (<0dBm). This meager power is typical of all FCC Part 15 approved 2400Mhz wireless systems. However, XCam2's actual RF drive power is about 5mW (into an ideal 50 ohm load). So, a Tx antenna upgrade should offer better performance with your R/C model application.

As far as aerial photography and video using standard RC line-of-sight equipment, go for it! I've been wanting to get into that myself.

Highflight

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

So, is there any reason that you can tell us that you really want to do this? Just flying cross countries isn't enough?

mnmills2

You know, I dont necessarily agree with the 3 miles idea. IMO, there is nothing wrong with a homemade UAV as long as he maintains control of it. If your issue with crashregs is that he wants a UAV you are absolutely wrong. This is america my friend and he is free to make such a thing. If your problem is simply that he wants to fly 3 miles away then I have to agree with you. My friend has made a homemade UAV (the one I discussed in post 3). He has made it from an idea of his uncles who happens to be a farmer with LARGE fields. The UAV is able to video is tall crops for water shortages, floods, damage etc from a distance and record a lat/long and distance to the problem. What problem with this can you possibly have?

Mike

crashergs

My Feedback: (8)

hey mills thanks for the backup its just people assume the worst. I just wanted to do a project and fly from my pc and look at technology do its this with GPS and telemetry. The thought of it sounds amazing, and these people not even knowing me call me a little boy when in fact im 25 yrs old.

Highflight

My Feedback: (4)

Trust me, crash, you don't know how old I am, but from my perspective, I'm afraid you ARE a little boy.

You can also trust me when I say, from lifetime experience, that anytime I've assumed the worse of a situation like this, I'm usually disappointed that I didn't assume worse enough.

Highflight

mnmills2

Well Highflight,

I see that you are good a pointing fingers but you havent addressed the possible reason I proposed which was the same as my friends. There are ligitimate reasons to have such a thing IMO. Instead of answering the guys question you and Paul have attacked the man. This one way our hobby grows is by people trying new things and experimentation and for you to stomp on a man for wanting to experiment or try something new is uncalled for; especially in this forum. If you have a problem with a guy at the flying field...so be it. But this is a place people come to ask questions and seek answers from other people, not to get chewed out by someone who doesnt even know them or what their intentions are.

Mike

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

My problem with it is I have a friend that wants to do the same thing. He wants to fly it from his house to mine and hover around and be able to fly around the neighborhood without being able to see the heli. Can you imagine it slicing into a kid playing in his yard because he lost it?

Probably not the case here because he stated he is going to a desert to do it, but I just hate to see it get to the point where it flys in a neighborhood on its own. Don't know where the mentality is when someone askes something like this, so most tend to get on the bandwagon of common sense.

mnmills2

Flyboy,

The problem is that your friend that wants to fly around the neighborhood doesnt need a camera to do it. If that is your beef, then your beef should lie with the people that fly in neighborhoods not in fields. Your problem with this is completely independent of a camera. There is nothing that keeps people in general from flying around their neighborhood...just because the guy wants a camera doesnt mean you should attack him.

Mike

Highflight

My Feedback: (4)

Your so called "legitimate reasons" (although I don't think you have yet stated them) for exploring RPV/UAV will definitely, positively lead to more restrictions on the RC hobby. Can anyone suggest otherwise?

Whatever cute little benefits you might suggest come from that kind of activity, you are totally ignoring the consequences of such activity. That is foolish and ignorant and I BEG someone to change my mind on that with some kind of definitive explanation of how great RPV/UAV would be for the hobby, and how ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, there would be no added governmental encroachment into the RC hobby as a result of those activities.

Let me repeat that once we fly our unmanned "models" into the NAS (which is ASSURED by RPV/UAV activity), we also fall into the very strict use of that space and are governed by ALL of the FAA rules and regulations that govern the NAS.

Tell me, is our little buddy crasherg a pilot? Does HE know all of the rules and regs that govern flight into NAS? Well, he damn well BETTER know every rule and reg of the FAA, just like licensed pilots do, because he'll be playing around in the same airspace as licensed pilots.

You suggest that I should be kinder and answer newbies questions without "attacking" him. Tell you what, I'll go into another forum and ask, as a newbie, how to make a bomb. I mean, jeez, I just want to see it go bang and everything... Are YOU going to carefully explain to me how to do that? Really?

Crasherg, with respect to the RC hobby, is asking about doing the equivilant of making a bomb, and I'm not about to tell him how to do that. In fact, I'll be a big a jerk as I need to be if I can convince him that what he's doing is a truly a foolish idea on every level, and I'm not going to be shy about trying to recruit as many people as I can to my way of thinking about this.

Anyone who really cares about our RC hobby WILL come to my way of thinking once they truly think through all of the possible/probable consequences of RPV/UAV activity. Why is it that, in almost every case, those who "dream" about flying RPV's are new to the hobby, while most of us who are long-time hobbiests understand the risks (to our hobby) by these kids who have no clue about what they're doing and damage they can cause on many levels?

Keep in mind that I'm NOT talking about aerial photography; that's cool. I'm talking about RPV flight beyond the standard limit of our transmitters, and flight beyond "line-of-site". It is THAT kind of RC activity that is foolish and dangerous, and rather than "further" the RC hobby, will almost surely "limit" the RC hobby because of the governmental oversight that will result from that activity.

Highflight

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

Mike, you missed the point. I don't care if he flys with a camera, GPS or anything else. To fly around the nieghborhood is kinda dumb. Granted we have all flown in the neighborhood at one point in our careers, its just not the best thing to do, and to do it by camera or gps is not safe.

by the way, did I attack anyone? I seem to remember only asking a question.