windridr

My Feedback: (1)

I have a 4 * 60 and can land it right on at times, but most of the time it is a bouncing Betty. Sunday I was so worried about bouncing that I stalled about 4 feet off the ground and ripped the landing gear off. I sure am getting tired of banging this plane up. Any suggestions, other than "get over it" LOL would be appreciated. Thanks[8D]

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

The 4* series are all floaters and can land extremely slow, slower the almost every trainer out there.

It does sound like you are coming in too fast. This will setup the bounces since the main gear touches down followed by the tail gear and if the speed is to high then right back into the air she will go. Hitting too hard does the exact same thing as the tail is forced down quickly which changes the angle of attack of the main wing and right back into the air she goes.

Best way I do it is to cut the throttle to just one or 2 clicks above idle (high idle) right before I turn to the base leg and I am also at about 75 feet altitude about 50 foot to the side of the runway, and that will setup a nice sink rate once you are straight out from the runway turn final (towards the runway and maintain the sink rate with power (just a click or two) and elevator. Just as the plane comes over the end of the runway, be about a foot or two off the ground, chop power completely to idle and just hold the elevator right where it is and she will settle down into a nice 3 point landing all on her own. If you go long then the next time just cut the throttle a little sooner.

This take a little practice, so do this up high. Basically turn downwind, cut the throttle to just above idle, turn base, turn final, cut the throttle and see how she reacts. This will help allot.

Knowing where your stall speed is is crucial to landing any plane, I would also suggest practicing stalls up high so you can get a feel for how slow you can really go. Mkae sure the idle on your engine is not to high as this will also make it hard to land since it will want to keep flying.

Timing is everything. Keep watching were the plane is in relation to your surroundings and once you make that first greaser it will all stick in you mind.

MajorTomski

Nuther solution I've found with the GP Ryan STA is hold whatever up elevator you have till the wheels touch the grass then go to neutral elevator. This lowers the AOA of the wing and lets the bird roll instead of bounce.

BillS

I have wondered if moving the wheels back slightly would help prevent bounce. Has anyone experimented with different wheel locations?

Bill

woodys3b

My Feedback: (13)

Yes, moving the wheels back will help, but Majortomski has the solution. I tend to ease off the up elevator just slightly before touchdown whenever my speed is too fast to do a three point landing. Then I allow the speed to scrub off with the tail in the air. A 4* has the wheels pretty far ahead of the CG so there is little chance that the plane will nose over when you ease off the elevator like this.

I have a 4* 120 that I clipped the wing on. Shortened it by one rib bay on each side for about 8 inches total. Makes a much easier plane to land in my opinion. I don't think any of the 4*s great flying characteristics have been lost by doing this.

Andy

Campy

My Feedback: (1)

Bubbagates has it correct except, IMHO, for one thing - you need TO FLY THE PLANE DOWN UNTIL THE MAINS ARE ABOUT 3" FROM THE GROUND, then go to idle. At this point a LITTLE up elevator (about 1 - 2 clicks worth) and HOLD IT will usually bleed off any excess speed.

When you fly it down, you have less chance of anything "unusual" happening to the plane. The chances of damage at 3" are a lot less than at 2'.

submikester

My Feedback: (6)

In my experience with my 4*40 and many many other planes of various types as well as instruction of many new pilots the method for landing is the culprit to many poor landings.

When on final approach it is a mistake to simply use elevator to control the altitude of the plane or the sink rate. It is more correct to hold a steady elevator setting that permits a reasonable sink rate and rather than input more elevator before the flair to touch down - adjust the throttle to keep the decent at the desired rate. So - if she's sinking too fast - add a touch of throttle to increase speed a little and your plane's sink rate will decrease and your glide path will lengthen. This of course takes practice and is infinitely practice-able via one of today's modern flight simulators. I use G2 Personally and have practiced it just for fun - touch and goes are spectacularly fun to do.

Practice practice practice and remember use the throttle to hold a gentle rate of decent and then flair at the appropriate moment and your 4 star should be making very nice 3 point landings.

windridr

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks for all the input. Anyone ever slip on final approaches? I know it may be kinda hard to do because of being in a fixed position and not looking from the cockpit perspective.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Yep. I like to practice slips. Helps learn rudder control and is a great way to lose altitude quickly without gaining airspeed if you need to.

windridr

My Feedback: (1)

How about some pointers on execution, Bubba....Thanks

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

A brief explanation on doing a sideslip or in general terms a slip

The main goal here is to keep the plane tracking straight over the ground while counter-acting for a crosswind or also for losing altitude quickly. This is not recommended for the beginning student as coordination of all controls is a must.

As before assume the wind if from your left and your are flying from right to left heading into the wind. This also assumes we are landing in a crosswind.

Now, give the plane right rudder and counteract the turn that the rudder is going to give you will opposite aileron, in the case left aileron, but only enough to stop the turn (known as the slip angle). You want to keep the plane tracking straight over the ground although it will look as though the plane is flying sideways, which it is. Now since more of the fuselage is pointing into the wind and the elft wing is now down, the airspeed will start to drop because of the increased drag and you will begin to lose altitude quickly, you now add power to keep the airspeed up and also to control the rate of decent along with the elevator. If you are decending to land then control the decent with both the power and elevator, all the while maintaining the slip angle. Just before touchdown, release the aileron and rudder at the same time and keep controlling the decent with power and elevator.

If you are just practicing slips then give it enough power to stop decending and fly right on by. You do not need wind to practice this.

The same goes for just losing altitude. the difference is you can drop either wing as you are not fighting a crosswind. If you do have wind and just want to lose altitude do as described above, just do not land.

It is a timing and coordination manuver, but when done well can be a real treat to see. Once I learned to master this manuver, I was no longer afraid to fly in winds up to 15mph. Now that all depends on the plane. My Funtana90 is 9lbs and in 10mph winds is a big kite with wings and is a bear to land. My 13lb GP Extra handles 15mph winds with ease. I have a feeling my new Ultimate at 16lbs will handle 20mph winds with ease.

windridr

My Feedback: (1)

I really appreciate all the help. Really enjoyed your website too Bubba. Thanks again to all.

Carlos Murphy

My Feedback: (72)

I didn't read all the other response's but have much experience with tail dragging floaters.
No matter what speed you land, the moment the mains touch the ground... get off the elevator!

When landing with up elevator, the air flow hitting the elevator will continue to push the tail down after the wheels are on the runway changing the angel of attack on the wing to "positive" and UP the plane will go again.

Try it, it not only works but looks great too.

Greg Agar

Hello There,
I have a 4 star 40, and it bounces like yours does. So my dad and I put a little weight in the nose, and put some shock obsorbing tires on it to soften up the landings. It works great now. Hope this helps. Greg

Greg Agar

Hello There,
I have a 4 star 40, and it bounced like yours does to. So my dad and I put a little weight in the nose, and put some shock obsorbing tires on it to soften up the landings. It works greta now. Hope this helps. Greg

kdheath

Mikester has it right on. Elevator controls speed, and throttle controls altitude. This is true of everything from the simplest hang glider to the Space Shuttle. Flying was much easier once I got this idea through my bone-head. You can do touch and gos with only rudder and throttle; set the elevator and forget it.