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Club Members insist on flying solo...

Old 11-12-2005, 08:35 PM
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NJ Flyer 72
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Default Club Members insist on flying solo...

I really don't enjoy waiting for 4 other club members to before me because they insist on flying solo. Is this a common occurance at other clubs ? I'm usually strapped for time and just want to get my flights in, but at the same time I don't want to cause any static by just taking off. Has anyone else run into a situation like this ?

Thanks, NJF72
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Old 11-12-2005, 08:38 PM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

I don't see what the problem is.
Are all of you on the same frequency?
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Old 11-12-2005, 08:41 PM
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NJ Flyer 72
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

No. They fly pattern planes though.
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Old 11-12-2005, 08:44 PM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

At our field if there isn't a lot of people flying we will take turns and let someone have the sky to themselves. This is done as a curtesy, not as the rule. If there are a lot of people then we will have up to four planes in the air at one time (field limit is 4). If someone is flying a brand new plane we will ask others to give them the sky for the trim flight, but other than that, we really don't mind others flying.
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Old 11-12-2005, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

Exactly Dr. Death. I feel the same way. Beginner going up ?? OK, let him feel comfortable flying alone. Maiden flight ?? OK, the sky is all your buddy.

It really disappoints me though when paying members ask me not to fly, because they prefer to fly solo.
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Old 11-12-2005, 08:48 PM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

One of our members was a pattern flyer. When he was preparing for a contest he preferred to be the only plane in the air. Our club’s major flying day is Saturday. Bill rarely practiced on Saturday because he felt it would be unfair to ask for solo airspace on most people’s only day of the week to fly. He practiced during the week if he needed to be the only one flying.
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Old 11-12-2005, 08:50 PM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

We also have a 4 plane limit.
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Old 11-12-2005, 08:55 PM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

If those flyers are trying to practice for an event, or to stay in a competitive condition, I can understand why they wouldn't like to have another plane interupting their concentration, but I would think they would also show some courtesy for other club members, first by explaining what they are doing and coming to some kind of arrangement with others, and second by not hogging the air and letting others, especially like the situation you said you have, strapped for time.
My club field used to be about a 5 minute drive from where I work, maybe 10 if I stopped at Micky Ds for a bite. Knowing that I had to get back to work, if someone was on my frequency, he would give up the freq pin and let me fly as soon as he was down. At least most of the Gummers would, and a few of the younger guys iff they had a day off.
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Old 11-12-2005, 09:17 PM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

We are prettyy much the same as DrDeath.

There is the "standard" day group that is out during the day, mainly the retired folk and people that work 3rd or second shifts, and then there is the standard "evening" group that is those of us that work during the day.

There is quite a bit more people during the day than the evening and I have been there with 7 -10 planes in the air and a select few not paying attention to the pattern in effect at the time which causes allot of problems, then there are the guys during the day that wait for "certain" people to land until they will fly.

The evening people like me have an unspoken rule we follow, we take turns but if someone is in a hurry we do not mind more than one plane in the air and we tend to stay in our own little airspace for seperation and communicate our intentions if/when we need to intrude on the other persons airspace. There are also times when we all go up just to chase each other around, usually with our foamies. If there are foamies up we will have more than one gas/gloe plane in the air and the guys flying in close will gladly get away from the runway if you just let them know ahead of time you are landing.

Now in my eyes the pattern guys need to learn to practice with other aircraft in the air. I fly IMAC and have been to a few contests where there is more than one aircraft in the air running through a given sequence. Granted I'm the only one at our club that flies IMAC and the others like to watch me fly and I encourage it and appreciate when they give me the airspace plus they usually will help critique my maneuvers or video tape the sequences for me. During the summer it's easy to get the airspace to myself at times but now since the time change and lack of daylight after work I'm limited to the weekends and we cannot start flying until 9:00am on Saturday and noon on Sunday do to neighbor concerns so right now even asking for the airspace alone is pretty much out of the question.

In your case I think you all need to talk about it and work out something that's good for everyone
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Old 11-12-2005, 10:06 PM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

On a busy day, insisting on solo air time is selfish.
When there's no rush, solo flights are common at our field, but if there's several people who want to fly, our limit is 5 up at one time.
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Old 11-13-2005, 12:03 AM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

I have to go with Dr. Death. Our club limit is four at a time. If we have a solo or new plane the sky is theirs, otherwise, it's every man or woman for themselves. If your club members can't fly with other planes in the air then they probably need to solo again. Tell them to go to the local golf club and ask to play a round by themselves and see what they tell them, if you want to play alone, buy your own field.
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Old 11-13-2005, 06:14 AM
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Don M.
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...


ORIGINAL: Lou55

Tell them to go to the local golf club and ask to play a round by themselves and see what they tell them, if you want to play alone, buy your own field.

AMEN !!!!!!


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Old 11-13-2005, 08:09 AM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

At our field one fellow likes to fly pattern. He goes out early in the morning and does his thing before anyone gets there. Courtesy works both ways.
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Old 11-13-2005, 09:15 AM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

Thank you all for the constructive feedback, it is very much appreciated.

NJF72
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Old 11-13-2005, 09:44 AM
  #15  
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

Learning to fly with others is a must. Having a spotter when you fly isn't a bad idea. I thought flying with three others at a time was busy, then after flying in a gym with just 3 people, it's not so bad.
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Old 11-13-2005, 11:22 AM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

I belong to two clubs. Club one has a max three planes aloft rule and it's no problem for anyone. Club two is another matter.

Several of the members fancy themselves as aerobatic / 3D artists and their planes are all over the sky, often making sudden, violent course and altitude changes. It would be foolish for anyone to fly when those guys' planes are up. Notwithstanding, it's no problem because it's a small club. What annoys me no $%#@$ end is that at least one of those planes is aloft at all times on the club's major day - Sunday. I don't even bother to go to that field on Sundays anymore.


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Old 11-13-2005, 05:26 PM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

Insisting on solo, what kinda BS is that. We had one guy that would get kinda bent everytime some else would fly when he did. I personally told him to bite me but some guy would just bown down, it got to the point we kicked him out of the club. AFter your comfortable you can fly and your confortable that they can fly I say just go for it. If they really have a problem flying with others in the air then they will land. sounds harsh but I haven't been to a club yet that says you have to wait until everyone is down. It is the purpose of a frequecy board. except for maybe rookies learning to fly We just go for it. If there is someone I'm not sure if they are close to my frequency I'll bump on and off my tx and see if the plane take a hit. OUr feild has 30+ very active people and we on a regular basis have 12+ aircraft in the air and the only time this is an issue is when someone goes dead stick and someone is taking off at the same time. we just deal with it laugh at it and keep having fun.
like was said before. if someone want to be selfish and own the sky he needs to buy his own feild
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Old 11-13-2005, 07:38 PM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

OK, now I get it.
WE have 4 flight stations for a reason.
Up to 4 people can fly at a time.
If you want to fly alone, then you need to wait until everyone else is not flying then go up.
You will then land when someone else goes up. That is about it.

If you got the money, then you need to purchase your own field.
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Old 11-13-2005, 11:47 PM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

I like mirwins take on it and like his opinion. Now not knowing how good of a flyer you are. Remember pattern planes are expensive. I fly pattern myself and where i normally fly it is a slow field. so i normally fly by myself. Now when other people are there depending on who is there i either land or continue flying. That depending thing is how much do i know that person? Is he someone that flies in a controlled manner or someone who is all over the sky. I cannot risk a midair just because i want to get one or two extra flights in. And by all over the sky i don't mean a aerobatic type flight.just someone who i will never be able to tell where he will be. Now did any of these pattern guys ever see you fly? Or did they just get a little aloof with you? Most of the pattern flyers i know tend to seem a little aloof when you first meet them. it comes from weighing pop bottles and realizing they can save an ounce and a half by using a pop bottle instead of a fuel tank. Don't laugh it's true. I would get to know them as most pattern flyers i know of are knowledgable about flying. And once you get to know them you should'nt have any problems flying with them. I know i've put my pattern plane aside more than once this year to help new flyers with there first takeoffs and landings. Along with maiden flights on quite a few different planes. I travel to six or so different fields a year for pattern contests. and if it is the day before a pattern contest at that field. Most of the people there will be practicing for the event. so normal flying time does'nt happen much. most of the time if the local flyer is flying we try and get him to join the contest the next day or at least come out to watch. almost none do. but some of the local flyers i've seen would do pretty well in sportsman.
Wow did this reply get long. Hope this explains some
Dennis
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Old 11-14-2005, 11:13 AM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

Unless there’s a rule, only you can decide when there’s too much air traffic to fly at any particular moment. Asking to have the sky to yourself for a maiden flight is reasonable but I’m not even sure that a training flight is always a valid reason – depends on the situation. Your fellow fliers are being dumb and selfish. Besides, Its fun to fly with others, even pattern, and its part of the hobby. If I decide to wait, more often than not its because of one particular aircraft on one guy’s flight pattern or flying habits that I find distracting, not air traffic.
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Old 11-14-2005, 01:15 PM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

I don't see how ones choice as to which aspect of the hobby they persue should entitle them to any more exclusive use of an airfield than someone else. What or why one flies is not a valid reason for demanding solo or preferential use of the field. On the other hand, all must choose when to fly and be courteous of others. I will not fly if someone is practicing pylon, or if there is a group of people flying overpowered ARFs 2 feet off the runnway (conditions that I feel jeopardize my plane or enjoyment) and I would also not hesitate to land or delay my flight for someone maidening a plane, but for someone to expect me not to fly simply because they want to practice for competition or because their pane is more expensive? No way.

Scott
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Old 11-14-2005, 05:58 PM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

Scott i am sorry maybe you read my post wrong or perhaps i did'nt make myself clear. I was not advocating hogging the field i was just wondering if he talked to them. I just got a little long winded that was all.
Dennis
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Old 11-15-2005, 09:18 AM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

Personally I think a pilot who insists on flying solo and they are not a rookie is purely an ego thing. It's the "watch me because I'm the best syndrome". It can ruin a club if left unchecked.
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Old 11-15-2005, 09:53 AM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

He wouldn't stop me from going up with him. I fly with anyone I trust. If they don't trust me, then they can land when I take off. I pay dues just like they do! If they tried to get rude with me, I'd just laugh at them.
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Old 11-15-2005, 02:15 PM
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Default RE: Club Members insist on flying solo...

I think 50+Airyears hit the nail on the head. We all do something different in this hobby and we all have unique field needs and flying conditions. The key is we all need to understand these differences, be courteous and all will be fine.

I fly pattern so I can explain from my standpoint my preferred flying conditions. This may shed some light on the situation. Our field can be moderately busy as we have 120 members. Our club rules limit planes in the air to six, but I generally will not fly if more than two are already up. I personally tend to prefer to be the only plane in the air when I practice. It's not ego, or to show off. It is so that I can fully concentrate on my flying without worrying about other planes in the air. It's just that simple. In addition, pattern ships are not cheap and $3K is not unheard of for total flying $. They also take hours of flight time to dial in and to become comfortable with. The idea of losing your primary ship at any time, especially days before a contest, is terrifying.

The solo flight is a combination of risk management and the desire to seek quality practice. This is not meant to belittle other pilots or to boast our ego. I know most pattern pilots have a bloated ego, but we must have a lot of self confidence as we are in a very competitive solo sport. If you can get past that, we really are a friendly, likeable odd lot. Pilot skill has very little to do with the situation. Pattern sequences are flown in a back and forth manner at a constant distance. This means flight against the field pattern. This could be potentially disastrous as we are using the field "differently" than other pilots. Actually, one of the most dangerous situations is two pattern planes flying the same sequence… I’ve witnessed the results and had to clean my shorts.

Our desire for open air in no way gives us rights different than other members. We all have the same flying rights to the field. I will practice with other planes in the air with pilots I know, but we communicate at the flight line and indicate where we intend to fly with the intention to stay out of each others way. I.E., I'll typically be out 150 meters, the other pilot will indicate they intend to stay in close, etc. There are pilots at our field who can't seem to play by these "rules", in such a case, I land. No hard feelings, I just wait until they are done flying then I go back up. I also will fly at times I know the field will be slow such that I can easily solo fly without any issue.

The key is courtesy. I never insist to be alone. I may ask to fly alone, but you can always say no and I will wait. When not flying I return the favor by helping new members solo, trim out a fellow pilots plane, fix an engine for a newbie, etc. This give 'n' take seems to work well at our field and I have never heard any negative comments about our pattern crowd. The same basic idea should work for any other SIG or pilots that have special flying conditions. Enjoy your hobby! Cheers.
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