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returning an ARF,,,

Old 11-18-2005, 01:16 AM
  #1  
the Wasp
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Default returning an ARF,,,

if you happened to order an ARF plane from one of the "most" repeatable companies and pay $39 shipping, and the plane comes in an un-acceptable condition because the 2 main wings are all scratched and scraped, gouged, dinged and one wing had glue on it's leading edge~ and so you send it back and you find they have no more planes to replace it with~ don't you feel the company should not only return the cost of the plane they should return the cost of the initial shipping to you ?? (the company did pay the return shipping),,,

a few more things before you decide,,, because you have been in the hobby a while you even happen to suspect that the box has been re-kited ~ you suspect the wings in this kit were used to replace wings that customers sent back for replacement,,,, why,,,

1) because the box has been opened, you know this because the tape was cut and the box was re-taped,,

2) upon opening the box the items were not packaged well, the packaging materials was just laying on the top of the plane & parts,,,

3) although the fuse was in perfect condition and glossy/shiny the wings were dull, un-glossy, rash-ed, they looked as if they had been laying around on the bench for a while, then of-course as I said above both wings were scratched and scraped, gouged, dinged and then the one wing with the glue on the leading edge,,, even the stabs, elev, and rudder were gouged and dinged,,,

and because the box had been opened the company certainly should have known the wings were in an un-acceptable condition,,, you have to ask yourself why was this box opened if it wasn't re-kited, and because it was opened then why was it sold in this condition ??,,,

so, wouldn't you feel because this company sent you an inferior damaged product they should replace the initial shipping to you ??

(keep in mind that I had the cost of the plane returned to me,,, I just feel I should get the initial shipping cost too)

Jim
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Old 11-18-2005, 02:53 AM
  #2  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

I would say that "yes", you should be reimbursed for the initial shipping. Thats the right thing to do. It's the stand-up thing to do.

But, good luck getting it outta them. No matter WHO the company is--you're going to have a pretty tough time convincing them to give you back the $39.

I'd just chalk it up to experience and consider yourself lucky that your ONLY out $39--and not much, much more.

There's just some things that aren't worth your time to fight over. $39 is a drop in the bucket compared to the $$ we spend on this hobby.

I DO understand your point. It's the principal of it all. Why should you be out $39 because they sent you an inferior product that had to be returned?

But, it's just not worth fighting over and it's certainly not worth loosing sleep or flying time over.
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Old 11-18-2005, 08:01 AM
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

Do it hink so? Yes

Will it happen? No


I guess the only way to think about it is.. say you drove to the hobby store (OK< for sake of argument, assume you get 2 miles to the gallon so it costs you $39 in gas)
you get home, and realize that you have to return an item... should the store pay for your gas??

We all would like to say Yes... but they won't...

make sense?

Sorry about the plane and tell the nice[:@] people at Hobbico we all say Hello!
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Old 11-18-2005, 08:19 AM
  #4  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

Should you get "time lost" compensation as well???

Being a modeler myself, I'd say you ought to be allowed to whip the owner of that mystery company with carbon fiber wing reinforcing rods and pour high nitro fuel over his head and.... chuckle.... extreme? maybe not..... (and I'm really only half kidding)

From what you saw of the kit, I'd say you owe it to us to divulge the name of the company. Jeez, don't you like us? You want us to get screwed too? Yeah, maybe everything they ship isn't shop worn, but think about it..... Anything could happen with them and if it does, whomever it happens to is going to be screwed. That type business isn't going to be worth dealing with no matter how small the problem.

Hey.... what size carbon fiber rods would you suggest? I'm thinking 1/8"..... [:@]
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Old 11-18-2005, 09:26 AM
  #5  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

ORIGINAL: exeter_acres

Do it hink so? Yes

Will it happen? No


I guess the only way to think about it is.. say you drove to the hobby store (OK< for sake of argument, assume you get 2 miles to the gallon so it costs you $39 in gas)
you get home, and realize that you have to return an item... should the store pay for your gas??

We all would like to say Yes... but they won't...

make sense?

Sorry about the plane and tell the nice[:@] people at Hobbico we all say Hello!
Do any of the Hobbico family of companies charge $39 for shipping? Sounds more like another vendor that gets lots of negative comments here for inflated shipping prices, poor customer service, etc.

And IF I bought an ARF from a hobby shop and got home and discovered that it had been opened up and put back damaged, I certainly would be looking for compensation, in some form, from the hobby shop. However, a hobby shop low enough to do something like this probably wouldn't care enough to be concerned about the long term impact of doing things like this.
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Old 11-18-2005, 03:08 PM
  #6  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

thanks for backing me up guys,,, as for buying an ARF at a hobby shop~ I now, would never leave a shop without looking at a kit first,,,

no it wasn't Hobbico, when I said ""one of the "most" repeatable companies"" I mean one of the big big guys...

Jim
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Old 11-18-2005, 03:35 PM
  #7  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

whats the name of the company so that we all know. why is it such a secret. just tell us. they wont sue i promise.
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Old 11-18-2005, 03:44 PM
  #8  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

If there is a possabilty that the "company" going to make things right, they dont need to be named at this time. However, if they refuse to address the situation, then you should let us know. If however, they do make it right, you shold report that as well.
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Old 11-18-2005, 04:34 PM
  #9  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

There are lots of imported ARF's being sold on eBay by phantom companies. They continually post the same groups of models and some actually sound like a pretty good deal. But what gets me is some of the return policies. One in particular (I'm not mentioning any names) really gets me. First, you spend up to $35 to have the item shipped to you, AND pay $3.00 for "mandatory" insurance. But then, get this (this is the actual policy stated in the auction):

Return Policy:
All sales are final, no return is allowed. If goods should be defective upon receipt, customer has up to 3 days from date of receipt for exchange of new one. please notify us no later than 3 days after you receive the item and we will arrange re-shipment of relevant parts. Buyer must email us for exchange notice prior to returning item, buyer pay all return and resend shipping & handling fee and item must also be in its original box and packing.
Shipping & Handling fees are non-refundable.

So let me get this straight... if after I've paid $35 for shipping AND paid $3.00 for mandatory insurance, if the ARF arrives and is defective (I didn't say "damaged in shipping", I said "defective"), you want ME to pay for the return to you AND pay a new $35 shipping charge to have the defective ARF replaced? Exactly what was the "Mandatory" insurance for?

Know what? I've already decided what I'd do - take my business elsewhere!

Most "reputable" companies don't hesitate to make something right - at no charge to you. I would never expect to get the original shipping charges back, but I would expect the company to pay any ADDITIONAL charges incurred to "make it right".
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Old 11-18-2005, 05:29 PM
  #10  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

sounds like they may have re sold a returned item,i have had this happen in the past..some warehouse picker is looking for a kit and finds the return and ships it out.the re tape was from the person returning it.and yes the should refund you intial shipping charges
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Old 11-19-2005, 03:56 AM
  #11  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

I am going to write this company a letter tomorrow, if they refuse to return the shipping cost I will then give the name of the company,,, but I will tell you guys now, there will be some devoted followers that will be upset once they hear the name !!


Jim
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Old 11-19-2005, 07:04 AM
  #12  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

ORIGINAL: linclogs

There are lots of imported ARF's being sold on eBay by phantom companies. They continually post the same groups of models and some actually sound like a pretty good deal. But what gets me is some of the return policies. One in particular (I'm not mentioning any names) really gets me. First, you spend up to $35 to have the item shipped to you, AND pay $3.00 for "mandatory" insurance. But then, get this (this is the actual policy stated in the auction):

Return Policy:
All sales are final, no return is allowed. If goods should be defective upon receipt, customer has up to 3 days from date of receipt for exchange of new one. please notify us no later than 3 days after you receive the item and we will arrange re-shipment of relevant parts. Buyer must email us for exchange notice prior to returning item, buyer pay all return and resend shipping & handling fee and item must also be in its original box and packing.
Shipping & Handling fees are non-refundable.

So let me get this straight... if after I've paid $35 for shipping AND paid $3.00 for mandatory insurance, if the ARF arrives and is defective (I didn't say "damaged in shipping", I said "defective"), you want ME to pay for the return to you AND pay a new $35 shipping charge to have the defective ARF replaced? Exactly what was the "Mandatory" insurance for?

Know what? I've already decided what I'd do - take my business elsewhere!

Most "reputable" companies don't hesitate to make something right - at no charge to you. I would never expect to get the original shipping charges back, but I would expect the company to pay any ADDITIONAL charges incurred to "make it right".
Sounds like the Raidentech phantoms. People are all excited about their low prices but they ignore the fact that the company offers no service, cares about nothing but profit, and most likely follows the typical practice of sending most of their profits back to family in China.
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Old 11-19-2005, 08:01 AM
  #13  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

ORIGINAL: the Wasp

I am going to write this company a letter tomorrow, if they refuse to return the shipping cost I will then give the name of the company,,, but I will tell you guys now, there will be some devoted followers that will be upset once they hear the name !!
If it happens to be the company that goes to great lengths trying to convice their customers that they only charge the actual shipping costs, you might also ask them about the difference between what they billed you and what it cost you to send it back to them. I'm guessing it was probably in the $20 range, right?
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Old 11-19-2005, 09:39 AM
  #14  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

Before we can jump on them company for it's shipping charges we need more details..

What ARF was it? are we talking about a 33% model here?

Standard shipping or 1-2 express?
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Old 11-19-2005, 11:28 AM
  #15  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

Jim, give it a rest, will you??? Tom refunded your money, and paid for the return shipping. That's more than a lot of companies would do. And if you think you're going to hurt his business with this, guess again. He has a solid reputation and a large core of loyal, satisfied customers. I have no doubt your wings were screwed up; as I told you earlier, my fuselage has some cosmetic flaws. But you're talking about a large, well-done model for three hundred bucks, for Pete's sake. If it cost $500, then you would have more room to gripe. But you would still have gotten your purchase price back, I'll wager.

I'm not minimizing your aggravation. He sold out of the plane, and no doubt would have sent you replacement wings if he had them to send. As it was, he could have said the supplied wings were serviceable, so tough bananas. Might he have sent you some less-than-perfect rejects from another kit? Perhaps. But the bottom line is that he refunded your purchace price and paid for the kit's return to him.

Guys, the vendor in question here is WildHare R/C, out of Dallas. Tom Fawcett has an entire line of large, scale-type aerobatic ARF planes that are extremely popular; and for good reason. He also has the cojones to have his own forum here on RCU; which is more than can be said for 99% of the other hobby mongers in this industry. Why aren't you posting this in that forum, Jim????

I have no affilliation with the guy, other than owning one of his products. But I have spoken with him on the phone; he reminded me of Bill O of Taurus Engines. IOW, a straight-forward, straight-talking business man who is not interested in schmoozing a customer, but in providing a quality product at a fair price.

Jim, if you'll buy that kid a Gene Soucy Extra from The Empire, as has been suggested to you in the past, you'll save yourself some further aggravation. But quit giving yourself an ulcer over $40 in shipping. Take Rcpilet's advice and chalk it up to a bad experience.
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Old 11-19-2005, 12:01 PM
  #16  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

Sorry, but I have to agree with the original poster.

If for any reason the vendor cannot "fix" the problem (with the vendor covering all the ADDIDTIONAL costs to do so), then the purchaser is entitled to ALL his money back. If the situation was as described (about the box having been opened and resealed, condition of the packing materials, etc.), then someone had to have known what the condition was and it should have never been used to fill an order. Just because the plane sold out (meaning the vendor didn't have anymore for replacements) doesn't give him the right to keep the original shipping fee if he can't "make it right". If it was a "factory defect" then the DEALER needs to be the one to get whatever is necessary from the factory to make the sale right. If buying direct from the factory, then it should be up to the buyer to deal with the factory. But not in this case. The company you BUY from should be responsible, IMO. And I'm not faulting the dealer in anyway regarding a factory defect - but he needs to handle getting it straightened out (go through the factory and get whatever is necessary to fix the problem and ship it to the buyer at no additional cost). If the factory can't provide replacement parts, the dealer needs to refund ALL the money. Sorry, but fair is fair.
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Old 11-19-2005, 12:19 PM
  #17  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,


ORIGINAL: Steve Campbell

But you're talking about a large, well-done model for three hundred bucks, for Pete's sake. If it cost $500, then you would have more room to gripe. But you would still have gotten your purchase price back, I'll wager.
Steve in my opinion even if the plane cost $50 + shipping he should be entitled to the purchase price plus what he paid for shipping returned to him.
I Do not Understand how you can say what you did in what I have quoted above, so he only paid $300 and not $500 so what $300 is a lot of money to pay out. AND for a vendor to send you a box of junk damaged parts is just UNACCEPTABLE.
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Old 11-19-2005, 02:40 PM
  #18  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

I have to agree with The Wasp here. If that box was opened before the initial shipping, the seller owes everything spent. It should cost the consumer nothing. Doesn't matter who the seller is, someone there had to know he was shipping a less than acceptable kit and that just should not happen. And to all of you more well to do folks who think $39.00 should just be written off and forgotten, each of you send me $39.00 and I will place an order with Tower or Sig or DuBro or someone (maybe all of them) and never have to purchase any RC items again.
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Old 11-19-2005, 03:34 PM
  #19  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

Guys... get a grip.

In the first place, "the box being opened" is a non-issue. The airframes are built, covered, and packed in China. When they get here, certain hardware items and accessories, manual, etc., are added. And this is the way ALL of the higher end ARF kits are handled, I wager. For instance, the kit box on my H9 Extra had tape in several places that had been cut and replaced. You guys are grasping with this complaint; even if the damn thing was shrink-wrapped, there's no guarantee someone hasn't been in the box already....

My comment regarding the dollar amount was simply an attempt to illustrate that a certain level of quality is difficult to nail down. We're talking about a quarter-scale airplane here, with high-grade fiberglass cowl and wheel pants and a complex (and eye-catching) trim job. Until The Empire and a couple of other main-stream hobby mongers dropped their prices, $300 for a large model of this caliber was a great deal. And its BECAUSE of this kind of competition that the "big guys" do drop prices. If you think they do it out of the goodness of their hearts, I've got some land I'd like to sell you...

Whatever. Perhaps Tom did knowingly send Jim some bunged up wings because that's all he had left, or was in a hurry, or any one of a number of reasons. I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't change my opinion of the situation. He refunded the man's money and paid for return shipping. I'll say again; that's a lot more than you would get from many vendors. We all have our stories of how we were hosed by this vendor or that one. Some days you get chicken; some days you get feathers.

Hey, Jim... perhaps now you know how those guys griping about Century and their BS policies felt when you were their most ardent supporter. That's not a cheap shot; just a reminder of reality.

Do what you feel you must. But if it was me, I'd be more concerned about getting my son something to fly, than generating moral support for my missing $39. And I'll ask again... why not address this on the WH Forum???
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Old 11-19-2005, 04:04 PM
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

I would want the $39. Not many would give it but if it's a legitimate business and the wings left the premises in poor shape, the buyer deserves a full refund. If he's such a good guy doing such good business it would be prudent.
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Old 11-19-2005, 04:19 PM
  #21  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

If the merchandise is faulty, and the seller cannot make good, he should be obligated to pay the buyers out of pocket. Lets face it, it's not the buyers fault, and he now has nothing, but the space that $39 will fill. If there was no fault with the product, the it's on the buyer.
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Old 11-19-2005, 05:33 PM
  #22  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

I’ve purchased two radios, 5+ servos, etc from Tower Hobbies and returned them because of defects or other things I didn’t like about them and they have always refunded all of my money including my cost of shipping them back to Tower. They do this with no questions asked.
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Old 11-19-2005, 06:21 PM
  #23  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

Steve, if I sent you a damaged item how would you feel ?? would you be happy to pay $39 shipping...

guys, I'm 100% sure if this happened to Steve's best friend he would stand beside his friend...

I put this post here because I wanted to know what others thought, not just the hard core WH guys !!

Jim
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Old 11-19-2005, 08:05 PM
  #24  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,

Steve, I never had a problem with people that had a real gripe with Century, it was the childish bashers that I had a problem with. you know the guys, the guys that would bash Century then go to the field and have their brand of helis do the wooff and puff, I know because I got the Emails from people that saw it. it was about guys like the one that said the 2.2 thread pulled out of the 3mm hole, a 2.2 thread wont even begin to thread in a 3mm hole, it was about the guys that would PM and Email each other and say lets start trouble on the Century page,,,

get real Steve, WH sent me a re-kited plane and it was a 50/50 chance that I would keep it, it was totally their fault, so for that matter they should pay me my $40. I asked a question and people agreed~ no matter the plane's brand people think I should get my $40, you Steve are the one that made into an argument !!

Jim
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Old 11-20-2005, 08:50 AM
  #25  
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Default RE: returning an ARF,,,


ORIGINAL: the Wasp

... people think I should get my $40, you Steve are the one that made into an argument !!

Jim
What argument??? I was just presenting another view. You DID ask for opinions, yes?

Me, a hard-core WH guy? YOU get real, Jim. I have one WH kit that I haven't even assembled yet.

You guys, including Jim, are confusing what's right with what's real. Sure, I think Jim is entitled to his $39. I KNOW he was lucky to get his purchase price refunded and return shipping paid for.

Write your letter to Tom; give it a shot. You should have done that BEFORE you got on here crying about it.

At any rate, good luck with your quest...[&:]
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