Achieving a nose high approach?
11-25-2005, 06:58 PM
#1
Achieving a nose high approach?
What's the best way to get a very nose high landing approach. Do you feed in up trim first, and vary the throttle or vice versa. Want to practice some on trike gear getting ready for my first delta jet. Any advice? Bill S.
11-25-2005, 07:25 PM
#2
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RE: Achieving a nose high approach?
i hold up elevater to bring the nose up and adjust the throttle to either hold that altitude or decrease the throttle a bit to get a good sink rate to the runway once the runway is made i reduce power slowly on scale ships and get ready to flair just above the ground as i go to low throttle,usually land just above stall speed others just fly all the way down to the runway.if you land with flaps you may find less up elevater is required but also more throttle is used due to the drag.i use flaps on my twins as it allows me to keep the engines at about half throttle for landing and if i have to go around instead of hitting the throttle to full i just pull up the flaps wait a few seconds for the speed to build up and just fly by
11-25-2005, 10:04 PM
#3
RE: Achieving a nose high approach?
I pretty much use the same technique as oscar2005.
A critical tip: You must make certain that your aircraft is well balaced laterally as well as to the CG. If one wing is heavier than the other you will not be able to maintain a nose-up attitude.
A critical tip: You must make certain that your aircraft is well balaced laterally as well as to the CG. If one wing is heavier than the other you will not be able to maintain a nose-up attitude.
11-26-2005, 04:26 AM
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RE: Achieving a nose high approach?
wsmalley,
Some basic airmanship:
Pitch controls airspeed, and Power controls altitude (climb/descent rate do be more specific).
The “flare” before touchdown is a process of bringing the descent rate to a hault, but also decelerating the plane from safe approach speed to the slower touchdown speed. A good flare synchronizes both these together to arrive at a soft touchdown at touchdown speed.
So you don’t want to pull the nose too high into the sky (fly to slow) during approach. Bring the nose up during the flare process.
The thing to realize is that all planes do not take the same nose up attitude during a proper landing. It is the wing that is “flared” to minimum speed - a high but not too high (stall) angle of attack - in preparation for touchdown. The max safe AOA depends on the airfoil and other wing design features. The angle that the nose will be at when the wing is at this high AOA depends on the incidence of the wing to fuselage.
So, focus on learning the minimum safe slow speed for our plane. This may or may not be very nose high depending on design?
Multiflyer
Some basic airmanship:
Pitch controls airspeed, and Power controls altitude (climb/descent rate do be more specific).
The “flare” before touchdown is a process of bringing the descent rate to a hault, but also decelerating the plane from safe approach speed to the slower touchdown speed. A good flare synchronizes both these together to arrive at a soft touchdown at touchdown speed.
So you don’t want to pull the nose too high into the sky (fly to slow) during approach. Bring the nose up during the flare process.
The thing to realize is that all planes do not take the same nose up attitude during a proper landing. It is the wing that is “flared” to minimum speed - a high but not too high (stall) angle of attack - in preparation for touchdown. The max safe AOA depends on the airfoil and other wing design features. The angle that the nose will be at when the wing is at this high AOA depends on the incidence of the wing to fuselage.
So, focus on learning the minimum safe slow speed for our plane. This may or may not be very nose high depending on design?
Multiflyer
11-26-2005, 07:20 AM
#5
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RE: Achieving a nose high approach?
Any advice? Yup, reread what multiflyer just wrote and...
Delta wing a/c don't handle exactly like straight wing a/c, or swept wing for that matter. They're supposed to be able to take a bunch of "too much up pitch" and not stall. But stall or not, they obviously can reach a point where they're not stalled but have so little power on that they cease going forward. So....
No matter what theory says, the best thing to do for each and every model is to fly some simulated landings above ground level. Do the first couple "way up there", obviously. Truth is, you're simply finding out how the a/c stalls (which ought to be done on your trim flights anyway) but you're doing it in the wind that you're going to land in very soon, and doing it in the direction you're going to land in. All of which is just sensible.
The deltas are supposed to be safer because they don't stall as easily, but I'd suggest that they might just be less safe for us modelers because we're apt to be tricked into flying them slower and slower until they simply fall out. Those awesome videos of the Concord coming in to land show what you're after, right? The sucker is cranked way up there, right? I bet the guys driving those a/c don't get to do that with passengers until they've been told again and again what the envelope for power and aoa is, and told a bunch of times, and then practiced it in the simulator a bunch.
And you're talking about your first delta jet. Is that your first delta? or your first jet? or both? I'd suggest that trying to make a straight wing prop job land with all it's belly showing would be way different than doing the same with a jet because of the throttle response difference ignoring the differences between delta and other planforms. You might even be learning the wrong things with something other than a delta and other than a jet or ducted fan.
You got any friends (and they'd be CLOSE friends) who have a delta jet they'd let you stall out real high up? I'd suggest that'd be the best practice. Are you going to maiden flight the a/c?
Delta wing a/c don't handle exactly like straight wing a/c, or swept wing for that matter. They're supposed to be able to take a bunch of "too much up pitch" and not stall. But stall or not, they obviously can reach a point where they're not stalled but have so little power on that they cease going forward. So....
No matter what theory says, the best thing to do for each and every model is to fly some simulated landings above ground level. Do the first couple "way up there", obviously. Truth is, you're simply finding out how the a/c stalls (which ought to be done on your trim flights anyway) but you're doing it in the wind that you're going to land in very soon, and doing it in the direction you're going to land in. All of which is just sensible.
The deltas are supposed to be safer because they don't stall as easily, but I'd suggest that they might just be less safe for us modelers because we're apt to be tricked into flying them slower and slower until they simply fall out. Those awesome videos of the Concord coming in to land show what you're after, right? The sucker is cranked way up there, right? I bet the guys driving those a/c don't get to do that with passengers until they've been told again and again what the envelope for power and aoa is, and told a bunch of times, and then practiced it in the simulator a bunch.
And you're talking about your first delta jet. Is that your first delta? or your first jet? or both? I'd suggest that trying to make a straight wing prop job land with all it's belly showing would be way different than doing the same with a jet because of the throttle response difference ignoring the differences between delta and other planforms. You might even be learning the wrong things with something other than a delta and other than a jet or ducted fan.
You got any friends (and they'd be CLOSE friends) who have a delta jet they'd let you stall out real high up? I'd suggest that'd be the best practice. Are you going to maiden flight the a/c?
11-26-2005, 11:25 AM
#6
RE: Achieving a nose high approach?
Thanks for the comments guys. I realize each plane is going to react a little differently. I was just trying to see if there some basic rules to the approach setup. The plane in question will be a DF F4D Skyray. I never maiden my own planes, always find a 'real' pilot to get one properly trimmed. I've seen planes that only the best pilot in the club could save from a total wreck when taken up the first time. I'll try some practice with my F14 propjet to do some of the above mentioned. It just looks real cool seeing some of the jets coming in 'belly up' and from some of the pics of the 1:1 Skyray I've seen, it was a real high AOA approach craft.
