Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > Questions and Answers
Reload this Page >

Biplane controls (2 elevator servos,2aileron servo)

Questions and Answers If you have general RC questions or answers discuss it here.

Biplane controls (2 elevator servos,2aileron servo)

Reply

Old 11-27-2005, 05:51 AM
  #1  
davesteemke
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Aurelia, IA
Posts: 30
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default Biplane controls (2 elevator servos,2aileron servo)

Currently Building a Carl Goldberg Ultimate Biplane. I installed 2 elevator servos, comtrolling elevators independently, and 2 aileron servos(1 controls upper and lower right aileron.2 controls upper and lower left aileron. I'm using Futaba 9CHP Transmitter w/ 9 CH receiver. Are these possinle to program? And can I have the ailerons to work as flaps and ailerons, and elevators to work as ailerons and elevators. Does that make sense?let me know if you have a question . Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Dave
davesteemke@yahoo.com
davesteemke is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2005, 10:04 AM
  #2  
2slow2matter
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Springtown, TX
Posts: 2,424
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Biplane controls (2 elevator servos,2aileron servo)

WIth the 9 channel radio, you could do what you are talking about easily. Each aileron servo, and each elevator servo would get it's own channel. Then, you'd mix them according to what you want them to do. I'm not a futaba man, so I'll defer the technicals to others. However, it is possible.

One suggestion, though. I woulnd't use flaperons on this plane for a couple of reasons. Number one, it's a bipe, and as such already has a lot of drag built in--you don't need the extra drag of flaps slowing you down even further. Number two, the ailerons are kind of "barn door" style--sitting out on the edge of the wing, meaning you'd create a stall condition near the tip of the wing first with this kind of flap. I don't need to tell you what comes next, do I?

However, mixing the elevator servo to work with your ailerons would be neat--could create some really nasty rolls! I'd say go for that one!

You're going to love this plane. It flies really nice! One suggetion I'd make, though. Get some aluminum landing gear for it--gear that is swept forward. The wire gear that comes with it is too bouncy. We've had the gear bounce so much that the wheel pants literally busted the sheeting on the bottom wing. With the forward swept aluminum gear, that is no longer an issue!

NJOY!
2slow2matter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2005, 10:12 AM
  #3  
LSP972
Senior Member
My Feedback: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Zachary, LA
Posts: 4,749
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Biplane controls (2 elevator servos,2aileron servo)

The functions you are looking for are Flaperon (ailerons/flaps) and Ailevator (elevator/elevons).

Not sure if they are listed by those exact terms on the 9C; they are on the 9Z.

Use channels 1 & 6 for flaperons; 2 & 5 for ailevator. Each servo must have its own channel for the dual functions.
LSP972 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2005, 10:37 AM
  #4  
mirwin
My Feedback: (1)
 
mirwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Winchester, VA
Posts: 821
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Biplane controls (2 elevator servos,2aileron servo)

I have the 9CAP. In fact I was studying the users manual last night in preparation for my next plane. You can indeed do what you want to do.

However, I agree completely with 2slow2matter on the flaperon question. I don't know why you would want flaps on such a great handling plane. I fly two Goldberg Ultimate 10-300s, and I can tell you they're a pleasure to land. If you want flaps to do stunts, I suggest that you can't do better than with the Goldberg - documented set-ups. The plane is very aerobatic, too aerobatic for any but an experienced pilot.

I also agree with 2slow2matter on the landing gear. I'll never understand why Goldberg makes such a super kit, and then includes the cheap wire landing gear. The wires will not hold up to just one rough landing. Lose the wires, and put fiberglass or carbon fiber gear on it. I put carbon fiber gear on one about a month ago, and will never go back. By the way, the carbon fiber gear weighs a full ounce less than the wire gear. Contact Ken in New York at hobbyncrafts@yahoo.com who made my landing gear for under $40 (and no, he isn't my brother in law; we've never even met.)

Mike
mirwin is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2005, 12:12 PM
  #5  
daveopam
My Feedback: (9)
 
daveopam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ELK CITY, OK
Posts: 7,481
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Biplane controls (2 elevator servos,2aileron servo)

You can do what you want. You don't need the ailavator function. The roll rate is great on this plane. If you do decide to use it. You need to use 2 & 8 on the 9C. The problem with this mix on the 9C is it can't be turned on and off. Once the %s are dialed in that is where they stay. So get familiar with the plane and then dial in a few degrees at a time.
I have a spoileron mix on my ULT for Elevators(plane drops straight down). I can walk you through the set up once you have everything else set up. It is very easy. I have this mix on the trainer switch and it is mixed with elevator movement. The flaperon mix would be the same mix just with + mix instead of - mix.

PM me or post here when your ready.


David
daveopam is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2005, 05:34 PM
  #6  
LSP972
Senior Member
My Feedback: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Zachary, LA
Posts: 4,749
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Biplane controls (2 elevator servos,2aileron servo)


ORIGINAL: mirwin

I don't know why you would want flaps on such a great handling plane.

Neither me, although I wasn't going to say it. I also agree that the ailevator really isn't needed, either. I'm on my second CG Ultimate, and will build a third sometime down the road. Of the 50+ different models I've owned and/or flown, I keep coming back to this one.

It is just a great flying plane. I can see where one might WANT ailevators; but flaps simply are not necessary. Also remember that an aileron used as a flap loses quite a bit of its roll authority. The Ulty has rather narrow ailerons; I can see where you might get into a bit of a jam if you got too slow on approach with the ailerons deflected for use as flaps.
LSP972 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2005, 06:46 PM
  #7  
bassfishing
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwood, MA
Posts: 7
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Biplane controls (2 elevator servos,2aileron servo)

Help on 9C

I'm new to computerized Radios. By playing with this and that. I did something to it some how I ended up with the throttle on the elevator and elevator on the throttle. How do I get it back??
bassfishing is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2005, 04:33 AM
  #8  
davesteemke
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Aurelia, IA
Posts: 30
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Biplane controls (2 elevator servos,2aileron servo)

I can't beleive how many great replies I've received in 24 hourS. Thanks Eceryone 4 your help. That thick manual can be a little general on info giving.
My old Forum (NVPlanet.com) was shutdown, and am now currently looking 4 a new home, do u guys also offer info. on computer hardware & software. From the response I've received this feels like the right one.
I also own:
Lanier Seabird - .60 - unassembled
Sig 4-Star Forty
Sig Kadet Senior - .46
Dash Five- unassembled
so I've been involved with r/c flight for 8 years.

Would installing 2 more aileron servos in the top-wing for more precise control and maybe airbrake be beneficial or just overkill? DaveOPam that sounds great I'll contact u when further down the "road", maybe tommorow. I read that Biplanes need to come in hot because of all the drag, that's why I thought maybe flaps might help, this is my first biplane. Any other flight characteristics I might expect on my first flight?

Thanx everyone 4 your help and time,
Dave
davesteemke is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2005, 09:22 AM
  #9  
LSP972
Senior Member
My Feedback: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Zachary, LA
Posts: 4,749
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Biplane controls (2 elevator servos,2aileron servo)


ORIGINAL: davesteemke

Would installing 2 more aileron servos in the top-wing for more precise control and maybe airbrake be beneficial or just overkill?
Overkill; MAJOR overkill.

Both of my CG Ultimates have flown with two aileron servos (one for each wing) and one elevator servo. The kit does have you build it with one aileron servo driving four ailerons, and that is a bit weak, true enough. Although, it works. I know of one built bone-stock per plans in 1991, with an old non-Surpass OS 91 four stroke, that flies just fine and in fact is still flying. It even has the original egg-shell cowling and wheel pants, to which the builder added a bit of glass cloth at strategic areas. It is no 3D demon, to be sure. But it certainly flies very well.

IOW, other than adding a second aileron servo if building the kit (the ARF already has this provision), you do NOT need to do any "sprucing up" of the control systems.

You must be an engineer...
LSP972 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2005, 11:17 AM
  #10  
davesteemke
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Aurelia, IA
Posts: 30
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Biplane controls (2 elevator servos,2aileron servo)

"Sprucing up" would include....?

Dave
davesteemke is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2005, 11:20 AM
  #11  
davesteemke
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Aurelia, IA
Posts: 30
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Biplane controls (2 elevator servos,2aileron servo)

"Sprucing up" would include....?

Iguess I just want 2 get full use out of my radio (9 CH).
Dave
davesteemke is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2005, 05:49 PM
  #12  
daveopam
My Feedback: (9)
 
daveopam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ELK CITY, OK
Posts: 7,481
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Biplane controls (2 elevator servos,2aileron servo)

Dave the flaps are going to give you more drag. landing a Goldberg Ult is not difficult. Just come in with a little more throttle(three clicks) than a mono plane. The exception is if it dies. If it is dead stick don't try and circle around looking for a good spot. You will pancake it in. The elevator on low rate will not hold the nose up if it dies. I have my elevator throw the same on both rates. I just have my mixes for knife edge on the low rate side.

I try to use the same switches for the same function on all my planes. I use three different rate switches. One for Aile one for Rud and one for Elev. Then use the trainer switch for spoilerons. I use the three position switch on the top right for the throttle cut. I have center as kill and up or down for run. This way if you bump it in the air it will bump to run either way.

As you can tell I love my 9C. It is two years old this Xmas. I just wish I had enough RXs for all my planes to be on it. One day I will.

David
daveopam is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2005, 10:24 PM
  #13  
LSP972
Senior Member
My Feedback: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Zachary, LA
Posts: 4,749
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Biplane controls (2 elevator servos,2aileron servo)


ORIGINAL: davesteemke

"Sprucing up" would include....?

Dave
1. Putting servos in the upper wing (totally unnecessary)

2. Two elevator servos (one is plenty, and the roll rate, with two aileron servos and high rates will be as fast as you can handle)

3. Flaps (flaperon function). See daveopam's post, which explains why they are not needed and actually not a good idea on this model.


I understand your desire to fully utilize your new radio (you ARE an engineer, ain't ya? ). However, adding all this stuff to a CG Ultimate will just add weight and complexity, and WON'T do anything for you that the airplane cannot already do.

Not trying to rain on your parade or bust your chops... just trying to save you some wasted effort and possible grief.
LSP972 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 05:44 PM
  #14  
davesteemke
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Aurelia, IA
Posts: 30
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: Biplane controls (2 elevator servos,2aileron servo)

Thanks guys 4 the input, I've put a lot of time into building this monster, just want to make sure all my bases are covered. It's been a few years since I've "crashed", but with a new aircraft u never know.
Installed the smoke pump, and trial fitted some other landing gear arrangements (thanks 4 the heads-up).Found an older plastic main gear piece, seems to have the right dimensions.Hopefully this will take care of the "bounce" issue.
Whilemoving around boxes I see I damaged the plastic canopy, looks minor, but i want a clean look. Any ideas on fabricating one? I've read about using 2 liter soda bottles, can it be that easy?
Hopefully tomorrow will bring balancing and some radio work. With my O.S. 1.20 III, smoke pump & extra battery, 2-elevator servo's (located in rear), 2-aileron servo's, & a couple of LED Lights, I've got to be over the 8.5 lbs. spec. I tried to balance everything out and locate near the c.g., any ideas on max weight? During Break-in last week , I pretty much had to "sit" on the thing to keep it on the ground! So I know this monster has got the power. Sorry for the added questions, but I've received such intuitive suggestions I want to make sure everythings right.. Hopefully I'll be able to show some pic's next week.
Thanks 4 your time,
Dave
davesteemke is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service